dwfoss

Hi, I live in virginia...ride mostly on W&OD bike trail...today, while a passenger in a car with my wife, we were driving near potomac maryland.
as we were driving on a 2 lane road, we came to a cross street...and there were 4 bike riders coming at us from the opposite direction.
It appeared there was a break in the traffic between our car and the one in front of us...
wasnt much room but all 4 bikers shot in front of us to make a left hand turn onto the cross street.
all appeared to be good riders, good bikes, the usually bike shorts, jerseys, clip in shoes...and helmets...
my wife isnt a bike rider and she asked me why they would do that?
note, none of them lifted a left hand/arm to signal the turn.
i tried to rationalize it by saying if you "have a pack, you have the power" to make such a move...
but she wasnt convinced...said that type of aggressive move is just why non riders think riders are arrogant...
tell me, how could I have defended that move? or could I?
I've seen it many times where riders, usually skilled / above avg types, display this behavior...
how do we keep a good name for ourselves with this sort of behavior.
thanks,
doug

flangehead

Your description of the cyclists' behavior is not consistent with any bicycle safety training I've ever taken or read about, be it Effective Cycling or any program by the League of American Bicyclists.

I don't think their behavior reflects on anyone except themselves, any more than the driver that ran a red light in front of me represents all motorists.

I think the path to improving road culture in this country starts with "no one gets hurt on my trip" when each of us gets on the road, be it as a motorist, a pedestrian or a cyclist.

MntnMan62

Here's a question. Did your wife have to step on the brake to avoid hitting any of them? If not, maybe it just seemed like a dangerous move but in reality there was plenty of room for them to make the turn? I'm not defending them. I don't make moves like that simply because I respect what a car can do to me when I'm on a bike. In other words, people on bikes who take chances are just plain stupid.

Iride01 

Just imagine a car with four people inside turning the corner. Should those not driving signal also?

I know it's not quite the same, but when traveling as a group, I'd rather all the cyclists traveling as a group act as one vehicle instead of me having to determine what each of them is going to do when I'm driving.

dwfoss

thanks for the response...I agree, it was on them...but unfortunately, I see lots of drivers who lump all us bikers together. And bikers who lump all drivers together.
thanks

dwfoss

Hi,
I think she hit the brake but barely...more of a perception on her part of uncertainty...
and I think she is representative of the "regular driver" world...
and they get nervous around us.
by not signaling, it sort of looked bad as a biker.
thank you

dwfoss

ok, I can see that...maybe the first rider in line??? and the last?
thanks

jadocs

Were there stop or yield signs? ...a 4-way intersection?

caloso

So these riders made a safe and legal turn (other than not signaling)? And your concern is the perception caused by not signaling?

c_m_shooter

Cars turn without signalling all the time. Sounds like it was a normal day.

I-Like-To-Bike

I think your wife may be representative of a world that consists of you and her. You and she apparantly get nervous/uncertain around cyclists riding legally and may have overreacted to a legal maneuver that, IAW your description of events, didn't endanger you or the cyclists at all.

Pratt

If you have to ask, you have your answer

billridesbikes

Here is how I make a left turn in that situation. About 600ft before the intersection I look for a gap in the traffic so I can occupy the left hand part of the lane. As I make that maneuver I stick my left hand straight out briefly to tell drivers behind me I’m turning. It’s the drivers following me who’s cooperation I need, drivers facing me not as much. As I arrive at the intersection both my hands are in the drops because I may have to stop or maneuver suddenly. Drivers in the intersection may not have seen my hand signal, but should understand my intention to turn left from my road position.

CycleCommuter

While I generally signal when turning, there are times when it is not possible due to traffic conditions. While certainly it would have been more appropriate if the lead rider would have been signaled prior to turning, it seems that there was plenty of time for all 4 bicyclists to turn in front of you and your wife.

Without fully understanding the situation, speed of travel of cars, speed of travel of bicycles, cars moving behind bicyclists in the same lane, etc. it is difficult to understand if this was a dangerous situation for the bicyclists or a situation which you as a more cautious bicyclist are uncomfortable but it was completely safe for the cyclists.

mr_bill

At the risk of awakening the sleeping VC militants, there are three ways for a person on a bike to make a left turn in Virgina Laws for Bicycling and Safety Tips, Changing Directions:

1. Motorist Left Turn
2. Pedestrian Left Turn
3. Walk in Crosswalk

The four people on bikes chose door number one.

Second, "bicyclist must signal their intentions to stop or turn." BUT "The signals do not have to be given continuously if both hands are needed to control the bicycle."

So, they may have signaled earlier, you and your spouse didn't see the signal, and then they "shot" across your bow.

How do we keep a good name for ourselves? LEARN THE LAWS AND RULES IN YOUR AREA.

I hope you know your commonwealth's laws and rules for the W&OD trail better.

BTW, helpful hint. If four people on bikes are riding in the oncoming left lane or the far left of the oncoming lane, they are riding there because they are about to turn.

(Exception, certain VC militants who "control" the lane. If they are giving flappy bird signals they think they are communicating with you. Nobody knows what they are "saying." Thankfully, VC militants are rare and rarely travel in groups, because, well, they are rare.)

p.s. As far as the reply that speculates that people in drops can't signal. PUH-LEASE.

p.p.s. Always be skeptical of the person on a bicycle who registers for a bike forum to complain about people on bikes.

-mr. bill

AlmostTrick

True story.

Oh, and by the way, what do "flappy bird signals" look like? I don't believe I've ever seen these. Since I'm somewhat of a bird watcher, I want to know what to look for.

Iride01 

The big picture should include the concept that any safe driver or safe cyclist should be aware that not all other drivers or cyclists follow or even know the rules of the road. If you get bent out of shape when you encounter them, then maybe you need to ask if you are safe too. A vehicle operator (cyclist included) has the responsibility to be ready for the unexpected.

mr_bill

So much is said by those little wings.

My favorite are "I see the you in you" which keep motorists behind you from getting annoyed (1:00, pole 56), and "We are family!" (2:00, pole 101).

But most saavy [not sic] is the direct traffic hand signals, such as "Do not pass! Traffic ahead!" (0:37, pole 39).


-mr. bill

Iride01 

There are quite a few hand signals that are just not meant for motorist. We might be pointing out a crack, pothole or rough spot for riders behind. Maybe twitching an elbow for another to take a turn. So many things can be flappy arms to motorists and others that just don't know.

As for the video from mr_bill It brings back too many memories of how many quarters I wasted on similar arcade games back in the day!

But I got them back... I went and spent 5000 dollars on a PC in the early eighties and probably paid another thousand or so on various games so I could play for free! Though the math actual savings is dubious! <grin>