pinholecam

There is no running away from the size of the wheel and how small a bike will fold, not to mention other considerations like turning radius per revolution of wheel (ie. nimbleness ), shorter overall bike w/ smaller wheels, lower gearing.

The bike does suddenly look big once past 451 wheel size, so anything bigger has fallen to be a niche product within an already niche category (ie. folding bikes)

tcs

Ladies and gentlemen, the Tuck folding bicycle, with folding wheels:

https://www.tuckbike.com/


This is actually not a new idea. From 1878:

tcs

Dahon has offered 24" and 26" wheel folders for many years. They have begun offering a 650B wheel folder. They have in times past offered 700C wheel folding bikes, but they haven't sold well. (Dahon: world's largest specialty folding bike company.)

Removed from the topic of large wheel folding bikes, there are 8", 12", 14", two different 16", and 18" wheel folding bikes.

Note: there are three different 24" wheel sizes, and companies never seem to specify which one it is they are using. There are six different 26" sizes. Sheesh. Everybody really needs to switch to ISO sizing designations.
​​​​​​https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

Elbeinlaw

Thanks for the sheldonbrown.com reference. The article told me something I'd been wondering about looking at my three different tire sizes.

Elbeinlaw

For one reason and another, I'm looking for one that she might be able to easily ride. She needs a bike that lets her sit very upright, as in the Verve Low Step models. Folding is not an issue, but the compact size and low crossbar on the non-Montague folders are. Numbers of gears are also an issue--I don't know that the 7, 8 or 9 speed will do much for us at our ages in our terrain, but of course she could always go electric/folding. So given your experience with the different folders, I wonder if you can give me some advice. Any direction or advice would be welcome. From you or anyone here.

linberl

Check out Bike Friday. 20" wheels with electric option, lightweight, packable, and fully customizable. You can get it set up so she's fully upright if that's what she prefers. If you don't go electric, you can get a triple and 27 speeds if you want. Smaller wheels are easier to ride than bigger ones once you get older; no leaning to put a foot down and easy to just stand quickly if you feel a lack of stability. Lower center of gravity helps, too, and they are more nimble. I'm a senior and find it much easier and more comfortable on smaller wheels - they accelerate easier as well so easier on the knees at take-off.

tcs

Might look for a used Dahon Ciao or a new Dahon Briza (back in stock soon).




Note to all: The bike market was kind of depressed for the last couple of years, and manufacturers and dealers cut inventory in response. Then the novel Coronavirus hit, and cycling became one of the few activities one could enjoy. Bicycling has boomed. Everybody everywhere is pretty much sold out of darn near everything.

Elbeinlaw

That looks great, thanks. I've made a note of it.

pinholecam

Interesting, so solid tires?
I wonder how is the ride quality and actual fold/unfolding time/process...

Simple Simon

Pacific iF Bikes had/have some full sized folders.

These are prototypes (Wikipedia)


Pacific iF Mode 26"

Pacific iF Urban 700c

FoldingSpace

I think super materials (buckyballs and nanotubes/fibers Etc will eventually lead to significant breakthroughs like folding wheels, tubeless tires and so on - this concept only needs two materials- a super strong and light rigid material and some sort of foam or micro-spring material to achieve pneumatic comfort and safety.


imagine for example a carbon nanotube spoke set - (maybe 20 or so) that fans or concertinas closed into a stack - and of course fans and locks open with enough torsional rigidity to form a stable and perfect wheel and you finish it with three or four sections of a rim and tire Combo to form a full, rigid wheel. The wheel segments lock together and into the spokes to complete the circuit and achieve a rigid, perfect wheel.


Spokes could plug into that wheel kit and lock in place - making your largest components the (now straight and collapsed/ fanned) spokes and a quadrant or third of the wheel circumference.(picture three or four “bananas” of a super material.

the frame, chain set and handlebars etc (also made of ultralight super strong future material) can fold or disconnect using existing tech/methods and pack away.

the Tuck and the diagram above of the penny farthing isn’t crazy if material properties reach the appropriate level of strength and lightness- and of course rigidity.

FoldingSpace

Apparently that If Mode bike actually became available for sale. The only reviews I found were from people who purchased it blind, having never seen a review - you can read the two reviews at the Amazon page, but the bike itself is no longer available (there) - does anyone on this forum have one?

https://www.amazon.com/IF-MODE-CYIMB...ct_top?ie=UTF8


at 32 pounds, two speeds, and ~$2.5k it's kinda useless for most audiences - but I guess if you are a weightlifter and have a superyacht and need to ride around the Marina, or a Lambo with a limited trunk space, this might be perfect for you. I LOVE the way it looks and the real versions are nicer than the prototypes - I like the black and white versions and the rustic looking leather makes a great contrast. I also love the stem design that becomes a push/pull handle when folded.

And the wheels folding completely flush together is some lovely engineering. Most folding bikes don't get anywhere near that.

A lightweight carbon fiber version of this would be extremely tempting. If this were say, 20 pounds and had a few more gears, I'd be obsessed. Also has a completely covered chain so it's certainly a clean look. Apparently it was designed by the same guy who came up with the equally cool but equally impractical Strida.

FoldingSpace

BTW I got a note from Flatbikes.com yesterday that they got a bunch more Change folding hybrids and MTBs in stock. If you can't find a full size regular bike because of shortages, I can vouch for my Change rugged hybrid as being almost equivalent to a similarly priced non folding hybrid. There's a slight premium for the folding mechanism, I suppose, but mine behaves, rides and mechanically upgrades like a "normal" bike and there's zero sense of compromise.

Happy Feet

Montague Navigator 700c

Jipe

These 3 pictures show clearly the problem of big wheels folders:
- the size of the folded bike package is huge, it doesn't bring the advantage of smaller wheels folders like the Brompton that can be taken in most public transportation.
- the bike isn't a full folder: the front wheel must be removed. Without removing the front wheel, its even bigger.

Happy Feet

I don't think it shows any problems. You choose the bike based on your needs. Not everyone needs a folder that packs down into a teeny tiny package or wants the compromise of small wheels that comes as a result.
This is a full size folder that rides and looks like a full sized hybrid of non folding design that one can take on a train, throw in the trunk or carry into and store in a small apartment or office. If I pop the hinge it can fold into a suitcase like a break away bike for air travel.

It's not a problem, just another option.

Jipe

Ase you say, its the same size as a break away for air travel and not small enough to carry on a train, bus... so it doesn't bring a real benefit wrt. a non folding full size bike. This is the reason why there isn't a lot of demand an why there aren't a lot of big wheels folders.

And once again, small wheels is not a drawback, big wheels aren't necessarily better for a road bike.

The supposed bigger wheel advantage was also used during the Helix campaign but it works only with people without experience in small wheel bikes, the others know that big wheels aren't better and have several disadvantages.

Happy Feet

Why couldn't I take it on a train? The whole reason I bought this was as an alternative to a rinko bike. Do you ride one or are you just allowing your obvious bias to imagine things.

I can't help but feel this is a Ford vs Chevy debate of which I have no interest pursuing. One can't argue the objectiveness of personal preference.

However, if you were a manufacturer of folding bikes and wanted to actually sell them to the average consumer, small wheels are the primary problem with the design. People think they look weird and call them clown bikes or bikes for little people. That is a perception, not reality, but the perception stops the average rider from taking them seriously as a purchase.

Is this a real problem? Consider how many folder discussions revolve around trying to convince others that small wheel size makes no difference. You just did it yourself in the quote above. Perception is a problem if one feels the need to explain it away on a regular basis or put other bikes down to justify it.

I don't care what bike you ride. The thread is about larger wheel size folders so I posted mine. Unless you've owned or ridden one you have as much validity saying they are a problem as I would have saying a small wheeled one is.

Jipe

I just say that big wheels folders are too big and too heavy for most folding bike users and that the big wheels aren't an advantage.

Looking at the market of folding bikes with mostly small wheels folders, its clear that manufacturers don't see big wheels folders as an interesting product.

This is also an answer to the original question of this topic:

Why do we see so few large folding bikes?

Kabuto

That's "rinko" right there.

Same with a full size road bike, but I see guys and gals doing rinko in Japan all the time with them. Not convenient to take onto a crowded train, but fine at off peak times. They pop the front wheel off, and bag the bike and wheel. A bagged "rinko" road bike is definitely bigger than pictured above and I'd bet the Montague folds and packs up a bit quicker than what it would take to bag a regular road bike. So the Montague has got that going for it.

Alternative to a rinko bike??? It is a rinko bike if its bagged and you're carrying it

Umm, because large folding bikes take up excessive space in tiny Asian apartments?

Happy Feet

Yep Rinko, is what you do to a bike to take it in a train. I guess I should have said as an alternative to converting a regular bike for rinko use.



I think one reason you don't see larger wheels (yet) is just good old fashioned inertia on the part of manufacturers. The folding bike market is niche and the main players have their designs carved out and loyal followings as they are, even at expensive pricing. There is no advantage for them to complicate their inventory and create the perception that their current design should be second guessed or challenged. They are successful with their designs.

Montague has carved out a niche within the niche by making full sized folders in both 26" and 700c sizes. Their bikes get good reviews for the most part but is unsupported by the traditional folding industry with the trickle down effect to their fans. If Brompton or Bikes Friday started making full size folders, in a few years, everybody would think they were valid.

Who would have predicted 5 years ago that gravel bikes would represent such a big part of the market. A fringy activity that road manufacturers saw no real need to fill. Until someone did in a way that highlighted the untapped market/need to be filled.

BikeLite

As far as mountain bikes go, I think Change Bike (flatbike.com) blows away Montague, and not just in high price ; ).

Jipe

Dahon made bike wheels folding bikes. Dahon is biggest folding bikes manufacturer.

Pacific Cycles, besides the small wheels folders, has also a big wheel folding bike.

Airnimal is making big wheels folding bikes since many years.

Montague is on the market since many years.

None of those was/is a commercial success.

So claiming that the lack of commercial success of big wheels folding bikes is because they aren't unsupported by the traditional folding industry isn't true.

The reason of the lack of success of big wheels folders is their drawback: too big folded, big wheels are heavier than small wheels and weight is important for folders that must often be carried folded, no real benefit of the big wheels. With as consequence little demand or big wheels folders.

BTW, Bike Friday makes excellent bikes but it a very small player in the folding bike industry.

Happy Feet

You seem very invested in not liking something you don't own. I won't try to change your mind. I simply prefer to put my energy into liking something I do own.
I am not familiar with the modern versions of full size mtb folders. They very well could be.
I was thinking that, for many years, if someone looked at folding mtb's, the main option was the Montague Paratrooper. Almost like Bandaids being associated with bandages.

Someone up stream mentioned full size folders taking mainstream components, which is for the most part true and one advantage. There is a thread here of a guy who swapped out a lot of his stock Hummer parts for higher end components and wound up with a pretty well performing folder. https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-b...ue-hummer.html

As soon as I got my Navigator I swapped the bars and cassette (11-25 city to 11-34 touring). I think every part is interchangeble except the "Octagon" adjustable stem which can be swapped out for a stock stem but loses the adjustability factor (I'm still meh about that).

Jipe

Once again, Dahon the biggest folding bike manufacturer makes big wheel folders since a long time and has folding MTB's.

Airnimal is also making big wheels folders since a long time and has also folding MTB's.

Montague is not the only nor the first big wheels folding bikes manufacturer.