Power Training
#1
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,127
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1340 Post(s)
Liked 2,482 Times
in
1,457 Posts
Power Training
Nice post. I've never tried power training ( and probably won't-- as a non-race it's hard to justify the expense. There are other toys I could spend $1000+ on). But I am somewhat confused by it. I understand that it more accurately tells you how much work you're performing and allows for precise replication of workouts. But if the point of training is to induce adaptations by stressing the body, how does it gauge this? Assume I do the same power based workout on 2 different days. The first time I'm at a HR of x bpm; the next time, because of rest, biorhythms , etc I'm at x + 10 bpm. Haven't I worked harder the second time? Or if, as a result of training, I'm now able to do the workout at x-10 bpm,, am I not working less hard & need to increase intensity to continue to produce adaptations?And if I only use power, how will I know this?
Off the subject, I know, but I've wondered about this.
Off the subject, I know, but I've wondered about this.
So take the red pill and I will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
IMO, performance cyclists who train with heart rate but have a knack for and interest in human performance will love training with power. It is great for racers who have coaches because we can upload training files to the Training Peaks web site and the coach gets a complete record of our ride. He can track the performance over time and modulate the workouts based upon the upcoming race or event schedule and amount of intensity that should be included and type of practice.
The power meter records watts, kjoules, torque and cadence. The recording interval on my Garmin 705 is every second. On the ride, I monitor, instantaneous power, 3 second power, cadence and time. Generally, I do not look at HR although I have it on the screen. And many rides, I do not wear my HR monitor.
Power zones are based on percentages of the function threshold power which is defined as the power that one can sustain for one hour. Let's assume the FTP is 200 watts, then the z4 power zone would be 185 to 215 watts. So, if my FTP were 200 and my prescription was 3x10 minute intervals at 90 cadence at z4 power then I could achieve that result by doing all three at 185 watts of average power. The key is to complete all three intervals in the z4 zone. Doing the first one at 215 watts and the last one a 170 watts is BAD. So the first benefit of power training is that you train where you need it most AT THE END. Races are lost at the end. Centuries and club rides are a problem at the end not the beginning. If one can do 3x10 at 215 watts great. If one can do 3x15 at 185 watts even better! Duration in the power zone is the key. 3 minutes at 215 watts is BS. Now, 5x5 minutes at 220 watts each with 5 minutes rest between sets is great and are VO2 Max intervals. And the last 5 minute interval should be as strong as the first!
Training FTP is where the action is and it accomplished by pushing it up from the bottom, attacking it at value and pulling it up from the top z5 intervals. However, the fundemental training interval is z3 or SST or sweet spot training. So if you are training under FTP, one is building the foundation. So once again, it is duration at z3 in the z3 zone for longer times >10 minutes and the longer the better.
What is the FTP? This is the most difficult number to get and one must suffer to get it. Yes, one must perform a test on the road or get it from a time trial. It is generally lower than cyclists think. One hour of constant power is a very difficult standard to achieve. The other way to get at FTP is by looking at the power distribution graph in Training Peaks WKO. Since FTP is difficult, cyclists tend to ride more, slightly below FTP. z2 power is easy, z3 power is more difficult and z4 power is tough and one must focus to do it and sustain discomfort. So on the power distribution graph there is a step which can be identified as where the FTP is.
Once you know the FTP, it is plugged into a formula and the power zones are developed. Within training peaks, there are software algorithms that look at the power and compare it to a percentage of FTP. This complex calculation determines a training stress score or TSS. A 40k TT raced at FTP for one hour is a TSS of 100. So if you ride above FTP, there are more points added to the score. The more you are above FTP the higher the score and intensity factor IF.
The TSS is plotted and shows how hard you really stress your body. The longer you ride and the higher the intensity the great the TSS. There are other performance management tools that I am not going to discuss.
So my coach has my power distribution and TSS score. And I provide him a daily qualitative matrix of how i feel and how hard or easy it felt to make power. He uses both the quantitative and qualitative information to make changes to my workouts. And he uses what is on my calendar. When I was training for a stage race of two hard days of racing, I would do two or three hard days back to back. My HR would be low but it would simulate race conditions. When one races multiple days in a row, the HR drops but one can still produce power. The caveat is one must have a very good fitness base. Hence, coaching and training is an art form as much as it is based upon power numbers.
Yes. One has to do repeated FTP tests and it is hard and a lot of work. However, it is a total blast and I love the software and power measurement.
So my recommendation is if you have the cash, get one, it is a lot of fun.
#2
Banned.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Post-partisan Paradise
Posts: 4,938
Bikes: GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
2 Posts
Will it help me to crush to souls of my enemies, see them scatter before me, and allow me to hear the lamentation of their women?
If so, count me in. Except for the cost thing. No way with the Medicare cuts.
If so, count me in. Except for the cost thing. No way with the Medicare cuts.
#3
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,127
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1340 Post(s)
Liked 2,482 Times
in
1,457 Posts
Listen...I can set you up with a guy who will ride your bike and crush 2000 watts. When you park your bike at Dunkin Doughnuts leave the display set at max power. The other poseurs / Freds will see the 2000 Watts and think you are the real deal and their women will be after your ass. Just make sure you keep your stomach sucked in at all times.
#4
Dan J
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Iron Mountain, MI
Posts: 1,244
Bikes: 1974 Stella 10 speed, 2006 Trek Pilot 1.2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#5
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,127
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1340 Post(s)
Liked 2,482 Times
in
1,457 Posts
My FTP has been going up but very slowly. If that were not the case, we would all be much better than we are. So power training, much like HR training starts with threshold and one has to figure that number out. The best way is a test. Since I time trial and do long hill climbs, I get FTP tests all the time.
Also, most cyclists get dropped from group rides due to accelerations of 30 seconds at 20% over a power they can sustain for that period of time.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Medina, OH
Posts: 5,804
Bikes: confidential infromation that I don't even share with my wife
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Listen...I can set you up with a guy who will ride your bike and crush 2000 watts. When you park your bike at Dunkin Doughnuts leave the display set at max power. The other poseurs / Freds will see the 2000 Watts and think you are the real deal and their women will be after your ass. Just make sure you keep your stomach sucked in at all times.
Can't the same be accomplished by setting up the unit's calibration incorrectly? That's what I would do in addition to buying the largest display available.
Herme's is this a ploy to bring more of us over to the PT side? I am waiting for the pedal technology to be perfected so I can move the unit between bikes for road, cross, mtb and racing wheels.
#8
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,127
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1340 Post(s)
Liked 2,482 Times
in
1,457 Posts
by
Can't the same be accomplished by setting up the unit's calibration incorrectly? That's what I would do in addition to buying the largest display available.
Herme's is this a ploy to bring more of us over to the PT side? I am waiting for the pedal technology to be perfected so I can move the unit between bikes for road, cross, mtb and racing wheels.
Can't the same be accomplished by setting up the unit's calibration incorrectly? That's what I would do in addition to buying the largest display available.
Herme's is this a ploy to bring more of us over to the PT side? I am waiting for the pedal technology to be perfected so I can move the unit between bikes for road, cross, mtb and racing wheels.
We know the Metrogear guy and so far they are still having "technical issues". It may happen and it may not. I suspect next year for version 1.0 and then another year for reliable commercial unit.
Most of my racing buddies have SRMs.
#9
Old & Getting Older Racer
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,343
Bikes: Bicycle Transportation: 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric, 2019 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
5 Posts
Hi Hermes,
I have begun the process of ordering a PowerTap training wheel from Psimet. A PowerTap race wheel (carbon tubular rim) will probably follow. Heck it's only money.
The Time-Crunched Cyclist instigated all of this.
I have begun the process of ordering a PowerTap training wheel from Psimet. A PowerTap race wheel (carbon tubular rim) will probably follow. Heck it's only money.
The Time-Crunched Cyclist instigated all of this.
__________________
Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men still wear pink."
Visit my blog at https://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: https://www.lightningvelo.org/
Learn about our Green Dream Home at https://www.lawville.org/
Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men still wear pink."
Visit my blog at https://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: https://www.lightningvelo.org/
Learn about our Green Dream Home at https://www.lawville.org/
#10
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,127
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1340 Post(s)
Liked 2,482 Times
in
1,457 Posts
I have a Quarq Cinqo and with a crank based system, you can use all your race wheels. However, it only works with Shimano.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
spectastic
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
31
06-29-16 09:31 PM
RomeoTango
Road Cycling
57
05-10-15 06:42 PM
Smallguy
Training & Nutrition
7
05-23-11 08:51 PM