Does Gym Strength Matter in Match Sprinting?
09-14-18, 11:10 AM
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Does Gym Strength Matter in Match Sprinting?
Does a rider’s physical strength matter when match sprinting and why or why not? I ask partly because a discussion in the 41 about sprinting and the position that sprinting does not require great strength but high aerobic capacity. The other position is that sprinting does require strength and examples of large sprinters are given. I feel like it is an apples to oranges debate, however I do remember a coach from New Zealand also say that soothing similar. He stated that he never had any of his riders workout in the gym. He was working with junior women.
09-14-18, 11:43 AM
#2
aka mattio
please link to this discussion in the 41 so that we can read it and chuckle about how wrong they are.
gym strength matters. it's not the only thing that matters, and yes, people can get pretty fast without hitting the gym. But the people who get the fastest do some really focused work in the gym. Wonder why that is?
edit: oh, you asked why.
because it requires a lot of strength to push on the pedals hard enough to go 45mph.
gym strength matters. it's not the only thing that matters, and yes, people can get pretty fast without hitting the gym. But the people who get the fastest do some really focused work in the gym. Wonder why that is?
edit: oh, you asked why.
because it requires a lot of strength to push on the pedals hard enough to go 45mph.
Last edited by queerpunk; 09-14-18 at 11:46 AM.
09-14-18, 11:46 AM
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My younger brother can squat 3 times the weight that I can, but he's never come close to beating me in a sprint.
I suppose weight training can augment cycling performance, and I can't see it harming the rider's performance. But there is a whole lot more going on with fast sprinters than just pure brute strength.
I suppose weight training can augment cycling performance, and I can't see it harming the rider's performance. But there is a whole lot more going on with fast sprinters than just pure brute strength.
09-14-18, 12:11 PM
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Here you go QP: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...gth-speed.html
It's turned pretty ridiculous.
And to clarify, I don't think most of the people in those threads understand the difference between track sprinting and road sprinting; e.g. they would probably assume Cavendish is a track sprinter too.
It's turned pretty ridiculous.
And to clarify, I don't think most of the people in those threads understand the difference between track sprinting and road sprinting; e.g. they would probably assume Cavendish is a track sprinter too.
09-14-18, 12:16 PM
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Are there any match sprinters consistently winning elite events that don’t have lifting as a large part of their program. All I have read about current sprint programs seem to emphasize building strength first then building speed endurance.
09-14-18, 01:38 PM
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Strength no, since you can be a fat tub of lard and be strong. Fast-twitch, however, does matter, but its the strength-to-weight ratio (that guy that's half your size but just as strong) that wins the race.
09-14-18, 02:00 PM
#8
aka mattio
Nope, nobody in elite sprinting does any kind of the power:weight optimization that road cyclists do, or even talks about power:weight at all. They optimize power:aerodynamics, though, because at the speeds we're talking about, weight is insignificant and adding weight to gain power will make you make more speed.
09-14-18, 04:01 PM
#9
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Nope, nobody in elite sprinting does any kind of the power:weight optimization that road cyclists do, or even talks about power:weight at all. They optimize power:aerodynamics, though, because at the speeds we're talking about, weight is insignificant and adding weight to gain power will make you make more speed.
09-14-18, 07:42 PM
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My theory is that to get to that weight without adding body fat, you would be adding muscle that might not be that helpful to going fast, huge pectorals for example.
09-15-18, 05:17 AM
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Here you go QP: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...gth-speed.html
It's turned pretty ridiculous.
And to clarify, I don't think most of the people in those threads understand the difference between track sprinting and road sprinting; e.g. they would probably assume Cavendish is a track sprinter too.
It's turned pretty ridiculous.
And to clarify, I don't think most of the people in those threads understand the difference between track sprinting and road sprinting; e.g. they would probably assume Cavendish is a track sprinter too.
Chis Hoy and Mark Cavendish were on the same British National Team. At one point, Cav was declared "The Fastest Man in the World"...and couldn't hold Hoy's jock strap in track sprint events...and vice/versa in road events.
09-15-18, 05:29 AM
#12
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https://media.giphy.com/media/KHw2Oi9NNAxmo/giphy.gif
Sorry, couldn't resist. I've weight lifted for years, but as a well-being effort vice any targeted goals. I feel like it helps my riding and other physical activities. Now over 60, I'm still at it, but listen to my body more...no point in permanent injury. A good read, with regards to how our bodies combine muscular and fascia efforts (couched in laymen terms) is Chris McDougall's "Natural Born Heroes". He also authored "Born to Run". Enjoy!
Sorry, couldn't resist. I've weight lifted for years, but as a well-being effort vice any targeted goals. I feel like it helps my riding and other physical activities. Now over 60, I'm still at it, but listen to my body more...no point in permanent injury. A good read, with regards to how our bodies combine muscular and fascia efforts (couched in laymen terms) is Chris McDougall's "Natural Born Heroes". He also authored "Born to Run". Enjoy!
09-15-18, 09:14 AM
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Theo Bos probably has the most success at making the transition from the velodrome. I wouldn’t consider him a top road sprinter, though. The physical requirements are just so different. They are really two complete disciplines.
09-15-18, 12:00 PM
#14
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No one cares about him anyways. He's a match sprinter. There have been many riders who have made the transition to the road with far more success.
09-15-18, 03:45 PM
#16
aka mattio
Here you go QP: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...gth-speed.html
It's turned pretty ridiculous.
And to clarify, I don't think most of the people in those threads understand the difference between track sprinting and road sprinting; e.g. they would probably assume Cavendish is a track sprinter too.
It's turned pretty ridiculous.
And to clarify, I don't think most of the people in those threads understand the difference between track sprinting and road sprinting; e.g. they would probably assume Cavendish is a track sprinter too.
09-15-18, 03:55 PM
#17
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Off the top of my head, Patrick Sercu,Urs Freuler, Guido Bontempi, Danny Clark were all considered to be good track sprinters who ended up doing well on the road.
These days I think it's becoming more difficult. But if Wiggins could win the Tour, I don't see why a track sprinter couldn't somehow transition into a somewhat decent road sprinter.
These days I think it's becoming more difficult. But if Wiggins could win the Tour, I don't see why a track sprinter couldn't somehow transition into a somewhat decent road sprinter.
09-15-18, 04:36 PM
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Anyone looked at this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27068517
Despite early and ongoing debate among athletes, coaches, and sport scientists, it is likely that resistance training for endurance cyclists can be tolerated, promotes desired adaptations that support training, and can directly improve performance. Lower-body heavy strength training performed in addition to endurance-cycling training can improve both short- and long-term endurance performance
09-15-18, 04:38 PM
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Things seem so specialized now. The road sprinters struggled in this year’s tour to finish in the time limit. Anything can happen though.
09-15-18, 04:52 PM
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Yeah, the "41" is like that. Which is why the the "33" don't play that "Armchair cyclist Fred" stuff: https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/
For the newer people: In a much older version of BikeForums, the sub-forums had unique numbers in the URLs. 41: General road cycling. 33: Road racing. I can't remember what this sub-forum's number was.
So, the nickname, "the 41" is faster than typing "Road Cycling" and everyone knew what you meant.
For the newer people: In a much older version of BikeForums, the sub-forums had unique numbers in the URLs. 41: General road cycling. 33: Road racing. I can't remember what this sub-forum's number was.
So, the nickname, "the 41" is faster than typing "Road Cycling" and everyone knew what you meant.
09-18-18, 05:43 AM
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w/kg matters for acceleration, though. ...but bigger people also get a bigger benefit from dropping down the banking. but for most sprint events, top speed is what wins most of the time.
09-18-18, 09:33 AM
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The W/CdA over W/kg for track sprinting makes sense and as mentioned by s.fox weight does affect acceleration. But, in reality most pro level track sprinters are very lean and weigh 95kg at the high end. A few outliers from a search are Hoogland and Bague. Glaetzer is 6' 3" and competed at 86kg in 2016, 94kg in 2018. You can't look at these numbers and say they don't care about weight at all, it takes a lot of effort and good nutrition to be as strong as they are and not end up 10kg heavier. A good level of weight and strength is something I am still trying to figure out for myself.
The argument could be made that the majority of track sprinters are 5'11"ish, but the only heavy one under 6' is Forstemann.
A neat reference site for olympics: https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/
2018 data: https://results.gc2018.com/en/all-sports/athletes.htm
The argument could be made that the majority of track sprinters are 5'11"ish, but the only heavy one under 6' is Forstemann.
A neat reference site for olympics: https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/
2018 data: https://results.gc2018.com/en/all-sports/athletes.htm
09-18-18, 11:26 AM
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I would venture to guess that Glaetzer's W/CdA is one of the top if not the top in all of track cycling.
From the 1st link that jfiveeight posted above:
Height: 6'2.5" (190 cm)
Weight: 190 lbs (86 kg)
My estimate of his max wattage: 23,000 - 2,500W
CdA: ?
From the 1st link that jfiveeight posted above:
Height: 6'2.5" (190 cm)
Weight: 190 lbs (86 kg)
My estimate of his max wattage: 23,000 - 2,500W
CdA: ?
Last edited by carleton; 09-18-18 at 11:30 AM.