mrtuttle04

I am a diabetic so I have gone low-carb in an effort to control my blood sugar. However, becasue of my bike riding, I do need some carbs to maintain my performance. I have found the beast way to take carbs is eat foods that are high in fiber or have a lot of complex carbs. This is typically while-grain breads and vegetables. I also eat a lot of beans which provide complex carbs and protien.

Carbonfiberboy 

True. I allow myself the occasional beer. Pizza - 2 slices max. The mental health part is important too. The wife and I always have a glass of whey protein at bedtime. That helps with getting dinner smaller, and sleeping and recovering well. Sometimes we have ice cream at bedtime instead! There was a huge thread on the crossfit forum a while back with people claiming that they lost more weight when they ate ice cream at bedtime. I think if you worked out really hard and need to recover, it can be a good idea. There's also the fun of a guilty pleasure.

79pmooney

GravelMN, "sugary sports drinks and high carb granola bars" is, for me, a red flag. I cannot eat very much white sugar without consequence. It does not sustain me long while riding and the crash is bad enough theat I have to keep consuming more. When I limit myself to foods that are not high in white sugar (sucrose; high fructose corn syrup is even worse) I find eating what my body actually needs is a lot easier. In my water bottles, I just use Vitalyte to keep myself hydrated and up on electrolytes. Yesterday I rode 50 miles on two WBs and half of a Clif bar.

My breakfasts are of a pile of fruit (apple, banana, 4 strawbs and an orange this morning with a tablespoon of yogurt and a cup of granola (made with honey, not sugar). Yesterday I had a cheese sandwich and half a PB and honey for lunch. Got on the bike at 4pm. So you can see I did that ride without large amounts of anything but fruit. Dinner is a bento bowl of grains, a can of tuna or sardines about 3 days a week, some beans and a pile of veggies or corn tortillas with the same except the tuna replace with cheese.

In my racing days I used to shoot for about 55 grams of protein a day (at 145 pounds). I ate so much whole grain foods that staying down to that level wasn't possible. but I made no attempt to eat more protein. (That was when I had to eat 3500-4000 calories a day to maintain weight!)

There was a book published by Rodale Press in the '70s, "Food For Fitness" that changed my eating habits forever and was key aspect to my racing. The stressing of no white sugar (that high fructose corn stuff didn't exist yet), whole grains and not eating excess protein worked really well for me. I have never been heavy (I got the "gift" when I was 19 of "getting it" that I was to never weigh more than 160; that my body could not handle it. I've touched 165 and when I do, I get reminded I need to get back to that diet.

Ben

Carbonfiberboy 

The OP's idea is to lose weight while still improving performance. It's not that hard to do: it's called body recomposition. You add muscle and lose fat by working out and eating smaller portions. To get started, I followed the plan in Gethin's Body by Design. He gives both workout plans and menus. I had to modify his plan some. His plan has you doing aerobic work for only 20' twice a day. I rode 6-8 hours/week with long weekend rides both days, but all VT1 rides, nothing hard. Also, I am a pesco-vegetarian, so I ate a Mediterranean diet, but one following his recommendations for approximate size, composition and timing. Because fish is so expensive, I used some whey protein instead, but I've done that for many years. It worked. Weight went down, waist went down, arms went up, legs stayed the same but got cut.

The LC part was that I mostly didn't eat during my rides and didn't have a conventional high carb recovery drink after, instead only having 15g whey protein in water. To acclimate to that, I went out with a bottle of water and a bottle of "sugary sports drink", in my case HEED to avoid tooth decay. I tried to drink only water. If I got woozy on a long ride, I'd have a few sips of HEED and that would be enough to keep me going. The huge advantage of the sports drink bottle is that it's only 100-150 calories, so even if you drink 1/4 bottle, that's only maybe 30 calories, so you only have to take in as many calories as you absolutely need, no more. As you know, there is no "sugar crash" when you're on the bike. Maybe if you're just piddling along, but not if you're really riding. Gradually I needed less and less HEED until I could ride 2-1/2 - 3 hours at a VT1 pace with nothing but water. I started doing this about December 1.

About March 1, I switched to doing heavy bike-specific weights once/week and added intensity on the weekends. I still eat about the same. That's working, too. Still losing weight, gaining watts.

There's nothing unusual about any of this. In fact it's standard practice and all well supported by clinical trials. It just took me a long time to put it all together.

GravelMN

You've got it, CFB. I took some cues from both Atkins and South Beach with a bit of Mediterranean diet worked in. I cut out 90% of the sugars and starches that I was eating, cleaned up my protein sources (much less hamburger, sausage, ham, etc) and am eating lots of fish (mainly salmon), poultry, and limited amounts of lean pork, beef, eggs, and seafoods like shrimp and clams. I replaced the carbs like bread, rice, pasta, cereal, and white potatoes with leafy greens like spinach, chard and kale, as well as plenty of non-starchy vegetables like onions, peppers, mushrooms, summer squash/zuchinni, etc. I'm eating some fruit, mainly berries and snack on almonds and walnuts or natural nut butters. Smoothies made with almond or coconut milk, Greek yogurt, and berries with a scoop of whey protein are my post workout treat. Added fats are limited to coconut and olive oil. In addition to the Greek yogurt (low-fat, no added sugar) I use small amounts of parmesan, feta, or blue cheese for flavor.

I'm consuming 1,800 -2,000 kCal/day. I dropped about 5 pounds of water weight the first few days and have been losing about 1/4 to 1/2 pound a day ever since. Current weight 239#, goal by July 1st < 215#

My riding has still been limited due to a number of factors, but I've been hitting the gym for weights and cardio 3-5 x week and do some cycling and balance specific yoga, Pilates and stretching at home nearly daily. Hoping come April I'll be back on the bike 4-5 days a week with two or three days when I can get in long rides or some hard intervals or spirited group rides. I'm going to have to experiment with on bike nutrition to get away from the carb (sugar) heavy ways of my past.

Carbonfiberboy 

The #1 thing I do on the bike is to only eat when I'm hungry. For rides where the object is to cover the distance as quickly as possible, my system is to carry a food bottle containing 2 c. of a mix of maltodextrin and flavored whey protein mixed 7:1 by weight, then water added to fill the bottle. Shake well. Some people prefer more protein, but never more than 4:1. The other bottle has plain water. Such a food bottle is ~750 calories and will last me about 70 miles or maybe 4 hours riding time. I can stretch it to a century if I stop and get a snack, but I usually don't eat anything else. For shorter rides, just less powder in the bottle. So that's about half of my calorie burn, the rest coming from fat and a little glycogen. I also could eat less and use more glycogen, but with that fueling rate I can ride almost indefinitely. Many times I'll finish a ride with the food bottle still half full, but that's OK. I'd rather throw it away but have it if I need it.

elcruxio

That is an absolutely insane amount of protein per day... You do realize that with that much a lot of it is just going to be turned into carbs. Also I believe that the broscience protein amount for exercising people is just ripped from someone's a$$ since no science supports it. Or it does, but everything has a limit. It's like saying an endurance athlete needs 1000grams of pure carbs per day to keep the glycogen stores full. You really need only 0.6g or 0.8g of protein per lean mass kilogram for maintencance, but for muscle growth 1.5g per lean mass kilogram is better. I get about 100-120g of protein per day and I'm gaining muscle at a worrying rate... Of course I lift pretty heavy as well, but still. And I'm 230lbs.

If anyone's interested, the weight loss method which works for me is a fast/feed period kind of thing where I don't eat for 16 hours and have an 8 hour eating window. It's much easier to live with a puny 2000Kcal when you only have 8 hours to cram it all in. Of course with exercise I can eat more, so there's that.

Carbonfiberboy 

So it's working, the ideas in posts 21, 29, & 31 that is. Sunday we did a 60 mile local route called Roller Coaster on our tandem. We rode as hard as we could: our Strava suffer score was about the same as on previous years' rides on this route, but we averaged 1.1 mph faster. We even got a 2015 KOM on the last few miles. One doesn't get many of those at our team age of 134. I used about 120 carb calories/hour, Stoker a little less. I knew we'd judged our limits well when Stoker cramped as we powered over the last hill top out of the saddle. We had a blast.

Dutch Jazz

You are correct, 1.0 to 1.7 grams protein per kilogram bodyweight per day should be enough. With the lower end when maintaining muscle mass and the higher end for top athletes increasing muscle mass. (Female athletes require approximately 15% less protein.)

Another important thing: consuming more than 20 grams per meal has no use, anything more then that will just be burned or converted and stored as fat. So it is important to spread out over the entire day. Example: a moderate to actively training male of 75kg looking to maintain or slightly increase muscle mass should aim for (75*1.3=) 97.5 gram protein. That should be spread over the day in (97.5/20=) 5 different meals through out the day. That is not very easy so I have a shake somewhere between lunch and dinner and just before going to bed.

elcruxio

Not sure if that protein absorbing thing really checks out... I eat my protein in 2-3 batches in a day, in sets of 50grams or more and by that logic I should be somewhat deficient in protein since I require 130-150 grams per day. However I'm growing muscle worryingly fast. Also, that conclusion doesn't really support the way humans have lived back in the day where the daily protein might have been more like weekly protein all eaten in a few days in big batches.

Gyrine

It doesn't have to be all or none. Maintain low carb (seems a healthy way of eating to me) most of the time but when you are going on a high pace group ride or similar activity - carb up beforehand. I am also a climbing guide (Seattle Mountaineers) and make sure no one in the group is trying to go low calorie (will not make it) or low carb (may make it but very slow) because it is unsafe and puts us all at risk. I am low carb but my favorite meal before a high pace ride or especially before any climb, is to have a waffle and maple syrup. Works for me.

curlyque

I have to agree that the boost from carbs carefully administered before and even during a long high intensity event, does enhance performance. I've been LC purist for over 3 years and was reluctant to admit that until I researched and experienced that carb burn during that level of workout does stoke me up will not drop me out of ketosis.

If any LCers have info to the contrary, I'd like to hear about it.

GravelMN

No argument from me. I'm greatly reducing my overall carb intake (which used to be high carb including way to many simple carbs) but I'm not completely anti-carb. I'm starting to embrace the "right fuel for the job" theory of adjusting the type and amount of carbohydrate to the task. Low glycemic load when I'm going to be doing LSD or recreational rides where I can get most of my energy from fats, and higher glycemic loads before and during more intense efforts where glycogen stores are going to be depleted. Basically a low carb lifestyle with accommodations for increased energy needs.

GravelMN

UPDATE:

Well, I've been reduced carb (about 25% of my calories coming from carbohydrate) for about six weeks and have lost 16 lbs. No performance problems so far. I've ridden a century at an average speed of 15.8 mph and today rode a 25-mile tempo ride at an average 17.2 mph with 1 hour and 28 minutes in HR Zone 4. Earlier today I did a heavy leg workout in the gym with squats, sumo squats, farmer's stairs, and stiff-legged deadlifts, went for a walk, and rode for about an hour with my family at a recreational pace, all before my tempo ride in the evening. No bonk, no unusual weakness, felt great.

None of this is to brag (obviously as I'm not in great shape and my performance is a resounding mediocrity) but I wanted to note that the performance on these rides was as good or better than similar rides last June and July when I was consuming about 60% carbs on a daily basis and lots of high carb snacks and sports drinks during my rides. Cutting more than half of the carbs out of my nutrition, especially high GI and filler carbs, has not hurt my performance at all and has made weight control much easier. I don't know just how low carb I could go before my performance decreased but at about 25% I'm doing well.

Sixty Fiver

For my lower carb lifestyle I really just pay attention to the carbs but know where my other numbers should be.

< 100 grams of carbs per day with those coming from vegetables, nuts, and a little fruit.. 400 calories there.

I need a minimum of 60 grams of protein a day for my weight... 240 calories

The balance is made up with fats, my bulletproof coffee is 300 calories a cup with no sugar for 600 calories (2 cups a day) and then there is butter, cheese, nuts, steak, fish, chicken, pork, and bacon

I stay really busy with physical work and can still kill it on the bike.

DaveLeeNC

I've been on an Atkins style diet for 2.5 years now. It has allowed me to maintain my weight at a reasonable place that is 40+ pounds less than it was when I started.

I would guess that on a typical day I consume maybe 60 grams of carbs each day but it varies a bit. Recently I have been on the low side of this.

And yesterday I went for a very hard, 2.5 hour solo ride (no stops) with a (per Coggan) Intensity Factor of 0.936. This is roughly 6% less power output over 2.5 hours than, in priniciple, is my absolute MAXIMUM over 1 hour. I did this off a week or two of no more than 40 grams of carbs daily and all that I ate that morning was a hard boiled egg. It was a cool day and I ate and drank nothing during the ride. I was much basically 'done' at the end of the ride, but I doubt that more carbs at any time would have made much of a difference.

IMHO, years of low carbs makes a difference. But that is an uneducated guess.

dave

Snicklefritz

+100

I am thinking of going on the "Cardiologist's Diet"...

...if it takes good you have to spit it out.

dm83

The low carb dogmatists just need to know that other diets are successful, claiming that a low carb diet is the panacea is false.

GravelMN

Can't imagine anything more miserable. There are so many healthful and delicious foods available. It may take a while to retrain your taste buds if they have been assaulted for years, but I've come to the point where overly greasy, sweet and/or salty food doesn't appeal to me. Fresh berries, almonds, walnuts, avacados, grilled chicken, turkey, salmon or tuna, black bean salsa, roasted sweet potato . . . OK, I'm hungry now, but why would anyone choose to eat food that doesn't taste good when you have so many options?

dm83,
I agree. Everyone needs to find what works best for them and their lifestyle. I don't even thin of my nutrition as "low carb", more like "reduced or controlled carb" where I have done away with most of the high glycemic index, high glycemic load but low nutrient foods in favor of lower glycemic index and load, high nutrient foods.

Snicklefritz

That was a joke. lol.

GravelMN

I was hoping so but there are some out there who actually follow similar trains of thought when it comes to their nutrition.

Last summer I was treated to a blended drink that is a mainstay of a person I know (neo-hippie but nice guy). I don't remember everything that went into it but there was parsley (good so far), alfalfa (the stems and leaves, not sprouts), wheatgrass and timothy hay (looked and smelled like lawn clippings), and some assorted greens. It smelled and tasted like the pellets I used to feed my hamsters when I was a kid and had a texture beyond description. Even he admits it tastes awful but he drinks a lot of it because it "cleanses" his body. I can believe it because after I choked down a few swallows I was ready to cleanse my upper digestive tract. I just don't need to be that healthy and will settle for my mixed greens salad with raspberry balsamic vinegarette.

Snicklefritz

Timothy hay? No freakin way! That's disgusting.

Sixty Fiver

All you need is a functional liver and kidneys to cleanse your body of any toxins.

GravelMN

More like timothy grass. He raises his own organic greens in little raised box gardens. Still tastes like lawn clippings even though it is from young, tender plants, not dried hay. Wheatgrass is bad enough. I've read up on it and the consensus is that leafy greens are very healthful but grassy greens are of little or no value to human nutrition. While they contain a lot of nutrients, we lack the ability to break down the high cellulose content to get a significant amount of the nutrients out, and there are better types and sources of fiber.

RR3

"Successful" is a bit dogmatic?