gontxo_nos

Hello, I'm looking to buy a book to follow a training plan. What is your recommendation between these two?


Regards! .

trainsktg

I have Carmichael's Time Crunched book and Friel's Cyclist Bible and Fast After 50 books. I found Friel's Bible to have the most relevant information for me, but all three are good.

Keith

Gyrine

Carmichael here, although I read Friel's blog religiously.

chasm54

How long do you have to ride?

The Carmichael time-crunched plans are a quick fix for those without much time to train. They substitute intensity for the traditional appraoch of building a big aerobic base through volume. They'll certainly make you faster fairly quickly, but the balance between getting fitter and overtraining/burning out is always fairly tricky and even Carmichael himself says you can't keep on with his plans for more than 8-12 weeks before you have to back off and rest for a few weeks to recover.

So, if you have a specific event to train for that's three months away or less, and only about six hours per week to train, you might try Carmichael's TTIP. If you have longer-term aims, or more time available to spend on the bike, go for something that takes longer and builds a more secure platform of aerobic fitness. Friel's training bible is excellent but isn't for beginners - he recommends just riding around for a thousand miles or so before getting into systematic programs.

gontxo_nos

Thank you for your opinions. This year I'm using a book to train where if it takes time for it. For the next season I'ill training with the Carmichael (TCC) book to see the results.


The TCC system gives good results for the races? .




Thanks! .

chasm54

Er, not really. Or at least, not for an extended period. It's designed to allow you to be competitive despite not really having enough time to prepare properly. If you want to stay competitive throughout a season I'd suggest Friel

gontxo_nos

Then, the TCC system is only for a few races and the Friel is for a season? .

chasm54

The point is that the time-crunched program can't be sustained for more than about 12 weeks at a time, because the intensity of the program is such that after that time one has to back off for a while.

That's true of all race training to an extent. Nobody can maintain their absolute peak fitness indefinitely. But if you are planning for a whole season, in my opinion you'd be better off building your fitness more gradually and aiming to remain at or close to race fitness for longer. The traing plans in Friels book are more suited to that. Just my opinion.

gontxo_nos

Okay thank you very much. I'll see who is good for me and I decide for choose a plan or another. So I see both are good, except that each one has its own training system.

I read that the Carmichael system is pretty intense. So it will recommend relax after finishing his plan.

mgwilder

I did TCC last winter with the goal of just getting faster. Through the progression and spring rides I saw very nice gains. I made people suffer, but something happened in the summer. Even though I was putting in the miles (but not interval training), all aspects of my riding started to tail off. By late summer, I didn't even want to look at my bike let alone ride it. My fall season was nothing like my spring. Maybe I overtrained, idunno, but I now understand that having more specific goals are very important.

As mentioned above, Friel is a long term project with very specific goals and the understanding that your fitness is not limitless. There's an understanding of the cycle (no pun) of fitness and how it works within your goals.

Would I do TCC again, yes, but I would be more goal specific and time it accordingly.

Looigi

Yep. I'm highly motivated to train and ride early in the year but by mid summer my motivation falls off too, so I'll just ride, go mtbing, etc...

chasm54

My experience with TCC wasn't that different. I used it to get fit quick for racing after an injury had disrupted my training. I got fast, alright, but I could barely complete the program before burning out and I was all over the place for weeks after that, it completely screwed up the second half of my season.

gontxo_nos

I guess that Carmichael require much intensity in your workouts.


I'll try your method to see how it works.

Snicklefritz

I haven't read either book, but the discussion thus far reminds me of the experience I had working with a personal trainer this summer. I got very fit, very quickly, but was burnt out by the end of the summer. What they were having me do was good for getting results fast, but it was not sustainable over the long haul. Now after the holidays' I've regressed somewhat, but am working out again, taking the elements from the personal trainer that worked for me, and ditching that stuff that was a bit too intense.

my progress may be slower but in the long run it will be more sustainable.

chasm54

The emphasis on intensity seems to have largely taken over the personal trainer industry. I had a discusion about it with one a while back. He said that he'd love to get his clients to do more extensive low-intensity stuff, but most of them want quick results and - most important - can't or won't spend more than three or four hours a week training. They want something that's compatible with just snatching an hour or so in the gym two or three times a week. So intensity is pretty much the only way he can go with them.

Snicklefritz

+100 I think you hit the nail on the head with what you said below. I've tried three personal trainers over the past year or so and had the same experience each time. It's all about the intensity, when what I really want is something sustainable such that I can workout effectively 1.5 hours 4-5 days per week with a long endurance session of something on saturdays.

I haven't met any personal trainers who have been about helping people develop a strong base. It's all about being known as "tough", "nasty @#$@#$" or some other thing

when the weather improves such that I can train outside, I'm considering going back to the workouts Max Testa put together for me back when I was racing.

himespau 

Does Carmichael also suggest a base before starting his program?

chasm54

Not really. To be fair, he acknowledges that building a big aerobic base is the way to go, and explains that his program is aimed at people who don't have time for that. There's a section in his book called "terms and conditions" in which he explains some of the limitations of his approach, and one of them is that "time crunched traing leads to time-crunched fitness". That is, you'll get fast in a short time, but the benefits will be short-lived because you can't stick with the program without overtraining.

Carbonfiberboy 

IMO the value of the TCC book is that it has a good method of finding FTP or LTHR and gives good examples of trainer interval sessions and how the sessions build on each other. The OP was asking after a training plan. I've never tried a cookbook training plan that worked for me. That's what coaches are for. If you're taking a cookbook approach, you are self-coached. Friel at least recognizes that and wants the rider to develop their own plan, giving some tools to help with that. However you've got about as much chance of that working for you as with any cookbook plan, maybe less. TrainingPeaks has a great variety of cycling training plans. IIRC you get one for free for joining, but they're not expensive. They're not bad.

So the thing to do is to start somewhere and begin acquiring experience in the art of self-coaching.

On the debate between base and intensity, a good place to begin is with Base Building for Cyclists by Chapple. If I were the OP, that's what I'd start with, but maybe I don't have the OP's goals or time constraints or whatever.

koffee brown

Personally, I will always reach for Friel over Carmichael. As much as I've enjoyed Carmichael's books, the fact that he worked with Lance Armstrong during the doping years automatically turns me off. Friel.

And get Ed Burke's "Serious Cycling". It's a staple must-have.

koffee