Santuri32

Could someone please share your 1987 Fisher MountainBikes catalog, I have an intermediate 1986/87 Montare and would like to know the '87 specs and components to learn what year mine is.

Greatly appreciated!

T-Mar

There was a huge components evolution between the 1986 and 1987 versions of the Montare.

Derailleurs went from 1st generation, friction shifting Deore XT (aka deer's head) to 2nd generation Deore XT with SIS.
Crankset went from New 600EX to Deore XT.
Pedals went from SunTour XC to Deore XT.
Rear brake went from SunTour XC to Deore XT U-brake.
Handlebars went from TIG welded, CrMo, bullmoose style to TIG welded CrMo stem with aluminum bulge bars.

These are the big changes. Lots more smaller ones. Please post pics of your bicycle.

clubman 

I have an '87 in the project pile. The only addition to this list that I can think of are Ritchey grips and a threadless, sealed bearing bottom bracket with circlips. I think the original seat post may have been the uber rare XT but mine didn't have that. Front cantis are Deore's.

Santuri32

Hello T-Mar,

So my bike has a serial T6E (Toyo-May-'86), so late for production year 1986. The seatstay bridge has a down facing threaded hole for a mudgard unlike bikes I understand are '86 model year. But then, it had a mix of '86 (m700 reach adjustable brake levers, XC pedals, Cyclone sealed hubs, m700 FD, 6206 Crank and from '87 m730 RD, shifters, 600EX cassette (maybe of both), MC70 front brake. I am aware of a certain package Shimano sold to upgrade friction bikes to Index m730 group. So, I wonder if these parts were replaced, possibly before selling. I think I saw a serial T6F bike with full m730. But I would like to see a catalog to see wether I'm missing something and geometry clues.

Santuri32

Thank yoy!, Mine has the circlips in the BB, but I think so did the'86, my grips are Grabons, my seatpost was replace with an aereator, but I think it was a Strong in silver with a black clamping area.

clubman 

Speaking of geometry, most all 87 white-blue fade models appear to have near horizontal top tubes. Is it possible yours is a later model?

Santuri32

I believe most of the bikes we see are in the larger sizes, mine being 17" Center of crank to top of top tube (16 1/4" effective) are sloped to maintain HT and ST angle geometry using the same fork as in other 26" sizes and the limitations of the size to maintain rider access. Here's an ''88 in 17". I identified two upgrades to the '88 frame: barrel type rear carrier bosses, and rear derailleur cable that passes though the U-brake boss instead through a loop on its outer side. Basically from my month May 1986 all frames are basically the same, except I don't know about geometry, for instance chain stay length may have become shorter at some time. What's the length of your bike's? Mine is 17 1/4" C-C (crank-axle), which matches the '86 model year geometry.

Regarding the date of manufacture of my bike, at least that says it was made May 1986.

Thank you

Santuri32

Correction, the frame geo changed from 86 to 88, and I don't know the geo of 1987 bikes, hence looking for a catalog.

Santuri32

Another feature that distinguishes '86 from '87 frames is the seat stay attachment place at the seat tube ('86 at clamp, '88 below it)

But where this and other changes started? in '87?

T-Mar

Dating of ATBs from the mid-1980s can be difficult, especially from ATB innovators like Fisher, as specs were often in flux due to the rapid pace of development. Personally, I'd call the OP's bicycle a 1986-1/2, I've seen two different sets of specs for 1986. It more closely matches 1986-1/2 than either early 1986 or 1987 specs. What it does have from 1987 is easily explained. The SIS was a common upgrade after it was released. Th U-brake is an easier set-up than the Rollercam. The bars and stem just appear to be a later upgrade, as while they are separate components , the stem's finish is the black chrome or paint matched finish of the 1987 model.

There were geometry differences between the years but the sloping top tube due to the small frame size will make angle measurements more difficult.

I'd be checking the date codes on the U-brake, shift levers and rear derailleur, to see how much they deviate from the frame date. Shimano would have been building inventory of the 1987 parts in mid-1986 but I suspect you'll find that the date codes post date the frame significantly.

Attached is a spread sheet showing specs. I used the 16" frame size for the geometry figures, as that is what the subject frame appears to be. 1986 specs are from the 1986 Bicycling Buyers' Guide. 1986-1/2 are from a Fisher pamphlet. 1987 specs are from a Fisher pamphlet and 1987 Mountain Bike Specialist retail catalogue. Highlighted cells are what matches the OP's bicycle based on his description and photos.

Edit: Oops! Typo on the 1987 BB height. 86-1/2 and 1987 geometry specs are identical, except for the seat tube angle.

Santuri32

Exactly as yo suggest T-Mar,

I have never seen that 86 1/2 brochure, could it be considered an early '87 catalog? I measure the best I could with smart phone app. Geo matched '86 1/2" as you suggest from the parts as well. I have only seen 1 other bike like mine and it was green with the same components and looking frame and the same T6E serial (Black "Rhino" chrome stem), a T6F serial varied slightly, then the T6G in Mombat (blue and white) website has full XT components but seem like the same frame.
Added: The three components you point out; U-brake (KK), RD (LA), shifters (LB) were made after the frame Nov '86 to Feb '87. I see a U-brake on the other T6E, but can't see the bars to see shifters or drive side to see the RD.

Here are the matching specs with a star

Thank you very much!

clubman 

So they were Grab-Ons. I've seen two 87 Montares with Ritcheys (including mine) so there it is. Very nice machine regardless.

Santuri32

This may be an '88 due seat stays, I canot see the other two changes from this pic.

T-Mar

It's pretty obvious from the date codes, that those three New Deore XT components are replacements, given that they post date the fame by a whopping 6 to 9 months. I also suspect that it originally had a Bullmoose bar/stem combination.

Personally I don't call anything a 1987, not even an "early 1987", if it still has 1st generation Deore XT. Based on advertising, it was evident to me that Shimano had gotten New Deore XT into the hands of the bicycle manufacturers by at least November 1986 and now we have a date code to support that. However, even if that were not the case, I'd be reticent to call anything built in May 1986, an "early 1987". However, if you choose to do so, that is your prerogative.

For what it's worth, I've seen a T6C frame which is cross between a 1986 and 1986-1/2. It has the Avocet Touring I saddle of the 1986 but not the Deore XT large flange hubs. While I can't positively identify the hubs but they are small flange and silver, so I'm assuming they are the Fisher SunTour hubs. I'm not sure if the hubs are OEM but based on the saddle and manufacturing date, it would seem to be what I prefer to call a 1986.

Santuri32

I agree with your points T-Mar,

This is the other T6E I've seen, it has a black Fisher Rhino stem. It is likely that these bike sat unsold in a dealer store, enough for the components to become available and upgraded then. I''l try to get a better measurement of the HT angle but the frame does shares a character absent on T6C bikes and is the seat stay bridge fender attachment has a braze under in while all previous bikes had it drilled on the sides. That and the 1 degree difference in the HT are the only frame differences I have noticed from 86- to 87 frames. Regarding the stem, the seller told me that the original was too long for his mother, and was replaced with a 120 MT3 in black with a specialized flat bar. I replaced these with a correct Rhino stem and a similar bar to the Bulge.

clubman 

Now you've got me twisted up. I bought my frame from a bike shop where I watched the mechanic strip the XTII drivetrain for another bike so I know the components were 87. I have the Fisher colour match stem and bulge bar and I've been collecting the parts, most of which I have.
I have the 17 1/4" distance on the rear chainstay, it also appears to be a 17" frame. The seatstays connect below the cmap but I do have a mudguard braze-on below the brake bridge.
The serial number is K8AO183 and makes little sense to me as there was some kind of crossover point. @T-Mar?

T-Mar

Yes, I believe the T6C frame that I saw also had the hole drilled through the bridge (caliper brake mounting bolt style), as opposed to the brazed-on boss under the bridge.

The 1987 Montare in the Mountain Bike Specialists retail/mail order catalogue shows the seat stays attaching to seat tube reinforcing collar, as opposed to attaching to the cinch bolt castings. The 1987 Fisher pamphlet doesn't have any photos (or illustrations) of the bicycle itself.

Santuri32

My 2-cents before T-Mar answers your question. All bikes that begin with a K that I have seen have the two features you show, seat stay below the clamp, and barrel type rear carrier braze-ons. I have seen a K7P which suggests the change from a 12 month-letter code to a fortnight. KP7 was made late July to early August and yours is a January 1988 built bike making it a 1988 model year for which XT (m730) was standard not XTII (m732).

added: I wander if Toyo still made the "K" bikes

T-Mar

Agreed, it would certainly appear to be 1988 model built in January 1988.

Based on serial numbers collected from GT Avalanche (bearing the Toyo sticker), Toyo changed their S/N format sometime during 1987 to 1988 and the 1988 format was Tyxxx (where y is the year and xxx is a sequential frame number). We've also seen the same format on 1988 Supergo, so they don't appear to customer specific. This anecdotal evidence suggests that the K-codes are not Toyo.

While the "P" in the K-codes would initially appear to be a fortnight indicator, this may not be the case. Some Asian manufacturers may have copied the Raleigh system, where the months are indicated by A, B, D, E, G, H, K, L, M, N, P & S. In this case a 'P' would represent November.

T-Mar

I found a late 1986 Winter Sale flyer from Mountain Bike Specialists that specifically mentions two version of the 1986 Montare, stating,

"1986 1/2 Montare.. With the latest geometry, this bike is ready to race or tour. Now save $100! Just $699

Or get the sllghtly older design, 1986 Montare for just $659!"

If Mountain Bike Specialists were calling them 1986 and 1986-1/2 models, that was likely an official Fisher designation.

Santuri32

T-Mar,

A mid-year bikeI... I think I heard that for some cars but never heard of a mid year model on for bikes. Is this something relatively rare? They must have been selling many bikes.

Are these advertisement that came on a bike magazine?

Thanks again

T-Mar

The Mountain Bike Specialists sale announcement may also have been in a magazine but I got mine because I was on the mailing list at the time.

While they are fairly rare, I have seen other cases of mid-year model changes and introductions. 1972 was a particularly notorious year for fluctuating model specs. It was the year that the boom took off and there were widespread component shortages as a result. Bicycle manufacturers were forced to make do with whatever they could get. Each new shipment of bicycles was reminiscent of a birthday present, in that you never knew exactly to expect, until you opened the cartons. I've always considered 1972 to be the genesis of the "specifications subject to change without warning" disclaimer.

Santuri32

Seems this code could be a variation of the Japanese maker Katakura or the Japanese K (1) of Fuji contractors, T-Mar can expand on these manufacturers as he compiled the guide. It seems they made the 1987 Novara bikes as well. The guides on the 1987 Novaras are longer and take curve, but the serial format is the same (KyM(or F?)xxxx) and towards the down tube. So these are still Japanese made bikes, I believe they continued making Fishers in Japan until 1989 or '90. There was no Montare in '89 that I know of. So these might be the last or second to last made there.

T-Mar

@Santuri32 here's the Mountain Bike Specialists sale flyer showing the 1986-1/2 Montare.

T-Mar

@Santuri32, here's the 19787 Fisher Montare specs. I used the Mountain Bike Specialists catalogue, as it has a photo and price, which the Fisher pamphlet does not. Specs are word for word, the same.