eduskator

Ride and ride and ride and ride hills, until you get better at it!

It requires a different skillset than flat riding for sure and it consumes a lot of energy.

Broctoon

If you were only going 4.2 MPH, I bet your cadence was fairly low--even with a reasonably low gear ratio. I'll make some assumptions on your equipment for hypothetical illustration (I might be way off)... with a compact road crank's 34 tooth small chainring and a 32 tooth cog, at 4.2 MPH average speed, your average cadence is only about 50 RPM. For most cyclists, the efficient cadence range is around 60 to 90 RPM. At 50-ish RPM, I'd want to shift down one more gear. It's possible you are "overgeared." One strategy for short, steep climbs is to stand up and sprint in a gear one or two steps higher than you would select while seated on the same incline. I know you and clipless pedals don't get along, and that's unfortunate because this is one situation where they can be really helpful. In any case, you probably will not be able to keep it up for more than a quarter mile. That's about as far as I can do it; others can probably go longer.

Perhaps what you need to work on is pacing. You say you do alright on the flats and descents, but the hills eat your lunch. Maybe you can reduce your effort slightly on the flats and save something to be able to climb a little harder.

It looks like that course is no walk in the park. 2000 feet of climbing in 34 miles, most of it in three steps from about sea level to 500 feet. Tough enough for most folks if done as a standalone ride, and of course you've already swam and need to save something for a long run as well.

I admire your persistence. I am also 53. I've been working to get better at biking and running. If I could swim worth a dang, I'd probably enter the occasional tri. It's true that improving in these endeavors is not easy, nor is it quick--especially at our age. Don't give up!

CAT7RDR

I have a brother 5 years my junior that did a few triathlons.
As part of his training we would ride up Hwy 39 to Crystal Lake together. Although cardiovascularly he was in better condition than I, I was a far better climber because he used too low a gear range and was overspinning and became gassed. I taught him how to engage his glutes more by sliding up on the saddle and how to shift up, stand up, and pedal 20-40 strokes to use different leg muscles and not just stay seated the entire climb while overexerting.

This is a learned skill that some riders just do not understand and try to be like Froome and spin seated 100% of the time when climbing.
Your own weight and gravity can make you a better climber.

stevel610 

While not into tri's, I am into songle speeds. One thing I notice is my entire body is worked and gets stronger without gears to downshift. Particularly on hills as you work your arms, back and core pulling the bars while pushing the pedals. My all around gear is 66" which lets me get up all the hills I ride. Flatter rides around 70".

Rather than spinning, you could just pick a gear 1 or 2 teeth larger and mash a little. Training rides, not races. But you may be amazed by the increase in strength and fitness increase.

Good luck.

Broctoon

I'll also put in a shameless plug for an event that might interest you, although it's not directly related to the topic of this thread. The Huntsman World Senior Games take place every October in St. George, Utah. To qualify, you only have to be at least 50 years old. Entry fees are reasonable; lodging for a few days or a week can be the most expensive part of the whole adventure (unless you're lucky enough to have a brother-in-law in that city, with an extra bedroom).

There is a different format of bike racing each day: hill climb, crit, road race, and time trial. There's also a tri, and several road and trail running events. All the races are competitive, but it's a very friendly and welcoming atmosphere. Many athletes are in their 60s and 70s or beyond, and most folks are happy to participate, have fun, and make some new friends. Last year I took third place in a few races... I usually don't mention that only four or five guys entered in my age group and skill division.

For anyone of a certain age who wants to try some racing but is not necessarily in peak condition, this event is really fun.

seypat

What exactly's stopping you? The fear of not being competitive? I had to give up the other sports in my early-mid 40s and turned to endurance sports. I am a mediocre endurance athlete at best. 58 now and after literally 100s of endurance type events, I don't think I've ever gotten in the upper 50% for my age group. Still a/an AAA athlete. Most Anything, Any place and Any time I'll give it a go at least once. Life's too short to worry about your placings/results. Get out there and do it, whatever it is. I haven't been on the bike much lately because it's training season for fall marathons.

Scratch that 50% statement. The first multisport event I came in 1st in my age group, but got demoted to 2nd because of some type of penalty. There were only 2 of us in my age division. I was both on the podium and last place in my division.

Eric F 

Broctoon

From triathlons? No. It's a lifelong phobia of water. I have managed to learn how to swim a little. It's enough that I could probably save myself from drowning if I were to fall in. But I am truly horrible at it, compared to anyone who swims competitively at any level. It's kind of been a dream of mine to overcome this someday and do just one tri.

I love running and biking, and I've done a duathlon. I also row (just on a machine, never an actual boat). I used to cross-country ski, and I tried a biathlon once.

The biggest thing holding me back now is finding enough time to train in multiple disciplines. I signed up for a big walking event coming up in a few months. Yeah, walking--don't laugh. It's called the Norwegian Foot March. 18.6 miles, to be completed in 4.5 hours or less, while carrying a 25 lb. pack. And the kicker: it's done in military uniform, including the boots. I thought, "This should be no problem. 25 lbs. is not that much, and I can handle a 14:30 per mile pace." I did a training walk in my Air Force boots and got a blister on my left foot the size of Delaware. I put in some better insoles, waited a week, and did another one. Blister came back not quite as big, and my right foot tried to develop one as well. I got some better socks, and now I am employing various strategies to make my soles tougher (tea soaks and gradually increasing my distance and pace to build up callouses).

This is happening just as the fall season is about to start with my cross country running club (a 5k race each week). And I'm also trying to prepare for an event in October where I'll enter three bike races in four days. I built a weekly activity schedule that attempts to cover all the bases without burning me out, by doing five workouts a week that include walks, runs, and rides.

Koyote

That is not unusually high...It is crazy high.

I'm eight years younger than you, and my max HR this year is 180.

Iride01 

You don't have to know specifics. All you need to know is that when your pedaling gets slow and hard and you can't any longer make your cadence fast and easy by shifting to a lower ratio, then you haven't got the correct gearing for the current situation.

You need to have a gearing that will allow you to maintain your ideal cadence.

Only when you decide to get something to change the current gearing does it matter how many teeth the cogs have, gear ratios or etc.

Broctoon

Many years ago, someone taught me this: If your legs are getting tired before your heart and lungs, you need a lower gear. If your heart and lungs are maxed out before your legs, you need a higher gear.

I'm sure halfway through a triathlon everything is working at or near max and feeling exhausted. In that case, you might just have to keep training hard, to include more hill climbing.

GhostRider62

Studying the route profile in detail in advance helps me. There are two very, very short steep bits. About 100 feet and 20 feet vertical. The first climb averages 2% with a max of 6%, the second is very similar while the third averages close to 4% with one very short 19% burst. So, the tactic would be to take it a little easy just leading into mile 26.5 where you would expect to go really really hard for around 15-20 seconds.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/20488...7-1996&lang=en

eduskator

Or OP just needs to get fitter... He did not mention his overall health condition and this is an important factor.

I mean, 4.2MPH when climbing - unless it's a 15+% gradient hill - is kind of slow. At this speed, cadence is probably around 50-60 with a big cassette (11x34?). I can't imagine how low it is with an older bike.

Iride01 

Yeah, I pretty much agree, but while the OP said they were pedaling at a decent rate, I don't know what's a decent rate to the OP. For me, anytime I'm less than 80 rpm and getting slower in my cadence, I'm going to be at the beginning of my demise if I can't find a better gear to let me have a higher cadence.

If the grade of the hill is something the OP doesn't ride often, then leg strength and stamina are a factor. For any of the climbs I want to do well, I try to include them as often as possible or at least find other climbs equal or harder.

jadmt

I am guessing you are a bit overweight if you do not want to divulge how much over 135lbs you are you can use this calculator to see how much dropping say 30lbs would help .https://silca.cc/pages/power-calc

Broctoon

OP has shared in the past that she likes sweets, and this has been perhaps her greatest weakness. She works to cut back on yummy stuff, because her A1c is moderately high, and she doesn't want diabetes.

It can be a sensitive topic, but one that must be discussed honestly in order for a useful conversation to take place.

rm -rf

I don't ride events. But I do ride lots of hills on my road bike in small groups. I'm retired. We often ride 250-300 foot high hills. consistent 10% grades are hard but doable, and even small "recovery" sections with a short bit of easier grade is helpful.

Practice riding hills is critical:

It's interesting that a couple of previous climbs on a difficult hill is very helpful. Just knowing what kind of pacing should work, and that I did climb it successfully already.

How long can I maintain this current climbing pace?
Is shifting two cogs harder and standing up a workable alternative? (for me, yes it is. usually for short sections of the climb). If I slow my cadence while standing, is that better or worse? (it's often better, but too slow is very difficult and inefficient.)

Speeds in the range of 4-5 mph are typical for me on the steeper climbs. I start wobbling and have less control maybe around 3.3 mph these days. Again, practice is very helpful, knowing if I can slow even a bit more if necessary and still keep control.

34 front, 32 rear is my lowest gear. That's just 49 rpm at 4.0 mph. If my cadence is that low, I'm moderating my pedal pressure -- pushing as hard as I could would quickly burn me out.

How fast and easily can I clip out if I start to stall? (I can clip out "instantly", so I don't worry about it and can wait until the last second. It's rare that I need to stop, though. If clipping out was tricky, I'd probably bail out earlier.)

I sometimes ride with other riders that rarely climb anything even moderately steep, and the hills are hard for them, even though they are fast on the flats.

Eric F 

In addition to the power and weight issues that have been discussed, I will also echo what others have said...To get better at climbing, go climb. A lot. The act of powering a bike up a hill uses the muscles slightly differently than blasting along on the flats, and it takes time to adapt to that change.

rm -rf

I create lots of routes on ridewithgps. It can be inaccurate on short sections of climbs. The mapped elevation data isn't detailed enough, I suppose. So I usually expect that the steepest parts of a climb can be taller or steeper than shown, and some longer steady grades might have more variation in their grade percentages. (Sometimes the climb is easier than expected, but that's not too common.)

These three climbs are
2.7 miles, 410 feet
3.6 miles, 410 again -- the first portion is mostly under 2%, but going too hard there would affect the rest of the climb.
1.5 miles, 416 feet. The average grade of 4.2% is moderate, but it shows some short, very steep parts. Those kinds of short climbs do need practice! There's a nice "recovery" dip in the middle-- good.

These hills are long and tall enough to need a pacing strategy. Short hills can be "go very hard and recover after the crest".

Is the really steep part of the third climb around 20-25 feet high, or closer to 50 feet? I don't trust elevation profiles to be exact at those short distances. That would really affect how easily I could climb that. 25 feet: click a gear or two harder, stand up, and go all-out. I can maintain that for long enough to get over the top of the steep section. 50 feet high would be much harder, and I'd likely try to do it at the slowest standing pace I can manage.

Test riding the steep climbs would be very helpful.

seypat

Smart move, if you have the phobia. Unless you overcome it, you got no business in open water. Even then, open water can be/is dangerous. The Richmond VA area where I live had a tri swimmer die a year or 2 before the COVID year in a couple feet of water. It was in the James River. He got turned upside down/disoriented and that was that. I'll say a person is never to old to learn how to swim though.

The walkers on the long distance events are the toughest of the groups. What separates the contenders from the BOP/rest is talent. The Richmond area has some big training teams for their fall marathon including a walking team. That team has to push it the whole way with no oppotunities to let up. They also have to rely strictly on their muscles with no help from the cardio system. They get the worst of the weather, support, crowds, etc. You have to be mentally tough/hardened to get it done. Through the years since I've been doing endurance stuff, I've done multiple marathons within 3-6 weeks apart. In 2021 I did 3 within a 6 week period. The slowest one is always the hardest. Once you start going slower than 30 seconds per mile under your good pace, it starts to drag. In 2021, the first one was the slowest and the last one was the fastest. Still slow for my age group, but that's life.

SoSmellyAir

About two years ago, I accidentally made a minor improvement in my climbing ability by (a) striving to do a few hills every ride (instead of riding around them) and (b) installing a narrower range cassette (12-25) on my road bike, which forced me to "train" (in an extremely unregimented manner) myself to climb.

GhostRider62

The important part of my recommendation was to have a mile marker for when the steep part starts. Those three climbs are trivial. There are two short, steep stretches. Most of my climbs are also 300-400 vertical but many climbs are around a KM averaging 10-12%. Even if the steep part is 50 feet? The stretch over 10% is under 0.1 mile long. Tactically, that is where OP could have prepared herself mentally, knowing it was coming, and secondly buy ensuring her W' reserves were full to enable a hard effort.

Eric F 

A couple of years ago, I converted my 20yo hardtail MTB to a singlespeed and tried riding my local roads and trails. The most common climb near me is 2.5mi at 8% avg. At first, I had to make 4-5 stops to recover my HR and breathing during the climb. In the weeks that followed, the stops became less, and eventually I was able to complete the climb non-stop. Then, it got to a point where I could moderate my effort willingly. My overall aerobic fitness wasn't improving dramatically, but rather, my body was adapting to that specific type of effort.

aliasfox

A recent leg buster I encountered was 1.19mi @10.9%, with a 0.18mi @15.9% section. None of it was fun, and even on my Bianchi with the triple (30x27 lowest gear), I was barely turning the cranks - and my front wheel lifted on a few occasions. Avg pace up the whole thing was apparently 3.4mph. I agree with much of what’s been said: gotta get used to those grades, and understand what they feel like in your legs. The nice thing about that climb was that the next time I went up one of my ‘normal’ climbs (about 1.5mi over three roads, evenly split between 6.7%, 1.8%, and 5.6%) two days later, it felt… almost easy. Definitely easier than it had felt previously.

Also, best to understand what climbing cadence works for you. I’ve never been able to comfortably hold much better than about 80rpm on flats, and on longer grinding climbs (think 3-5mi @ 7%), I end up settling around 60rpm. Much faster or slower gets my heart rate soaring or my legs burning, respectively. On that leg buster from last week, I barely crested 50rpm on the shallows, and my legs were on fire.

So find your cadence, make sure you’re geared for the grade so that you can keep that cadence, and then ride those grades. And then ride steeper grades. Eventually, you’ll be able to hold that cadence for longer, on steeper slopes, for longer distances. Or if you’re not me, your cardio will adapt to slowly inch those avg rpm up.

And btw, this is coming from someone who has optimistically been 195lbs since he stopped running in the gym 5 nights a week (thanks, COVID), so not a featherweight here…

Carbonfiberboy 

I don't subscribe to the "hard man" ideas in this thread, possibly because I don't do any serious rides of less than about 60 miles. OTOH, I've climbed 18% grades on a 400k, so there is something to the hard man theory. Problem is, it takes time to develop that level of strength and many people never will.

On long rides, it's all about HR and cadence. Those are the only two things I watch. I don't care about speed or distance except for navigation. I have a readout for gradient but mostly to fight discouragement - hey, it's not really that hard. I have a lower limit on cadence of about 75. If I find I have to drop below that limit due to gradient or being tired, I'll put on lower gearing. I've gone from a low gear of 30X25 (32 g.i.) in my 50s to 26X30 (23 g.i.) in my 70s. Gearing is the secret, not getting tough. Gearing will allow you to get stronger aerobically, which is what matters. Moreover, with simple gearing changes you can ride anythng you want, right now.

You were wobbling on the bike because your cadence was too low. Riding at 4 mph shouldn't be a problem. It's vastly more energy efficient to ride rather than walk and also much faster. On long rides, I see many inexperienced riders slowly, painfully turning their cranks when they could be comfortable and faster.

If you don't know what gear-inches (g.i.) means, google. That's necessary knowledge.