elgrande

Hi,

I would really appreciate some advice. I went to unscrew the bolt in one of my seat stay eyelets (Aluminium frame; I don't know if the eyelets are Aluminium or steel but I would assume the former to match the frame), and it seemed quite stuck. I (perhaps unwisely) put some force in to it, but when the allen key turned, I realised that the eyelet itself had come loose in the frame rather than the bolt in the eyelet. Does anyone have any idea how to proceed?

I have tried gripping the 1mm lip of the eyelet that protrudes from the frame, but it is extremely soft and it simply deforms. Since the eyelet just spins around inside the frame, it seems that there is no way to get any purchase on the bolt in order to remove it. I don't know how the eyelet is affixed to the frame on the inside. I am almost certain that just pulling it out (if it were possible) would be a bad idea, since presumably you would pull the eyelet through the drilled hole in the frame, 'tearing' the aluminium of the frame.

The only idea I have is that it might be possible to drill the bolt out. But you would still be stuck with a loose (and by now at least externally) deformed eyelet. Which would be little use when trying to attach a rack (which is what I am trying to do). I have read online that a framebuilder might be able to affix a new eyelet, but I have also read that it is a bad idea to try and re-weld aluminium. In any case, I am nowhere near a framebuilder in this part of the world.

I'd appreciate any advice if anyone knows how the eyelets are affixed on the inside of the frame (i.e. if there is a 'lip' on the inside as there is on the outside). I'm really not sure how to save the functionality of the eyelet if it is even possible. But any advice would be brilliant!

Best,

Ben

shelbyfv

Google Riv-nut and see if that's what you have. They are usually used for bottle cage mounts but it sounds like you may have them for your rack mount. If this is what you have, a bike shop should be able to drill out the old one and pop in a new one. Easy, so don't bugger anything until you check.

Miele Man

Do you have a pair of thin side cutters? If you do you might be able to get the blades of them under the flange of the rivnut and squeezing it may give you enough pressure to be able to back out that bolt.

Do NOT just try to pull the bolt out as you have guessed it'll tear the aluminium frame too.

A rivnut works just like a pop rivet does except it uses a different type of guide on the rivnut to cause the part inside the frame to mushroom.

Cheers

elgrande

Hi Both shelbyfv and Miele Man,

Thank you for your responses and advice. I am not sure if I have Rivnuts, since I am not sure exactly how I would be able to tell just from looking at the lip. However, a quick google suggests that they are quite ubiquitous. So I suspect so.

Unfortunately, there are no bike shops for hundreds of kilometres, so even if a mechanic could drill out the rivnut, I would not be able to replace it. Furthermore, having flattened the lip by using a medium size pair of pliers, I think that I am beyond the point of being able to use thin side cutters; in any case, I could find any!

I think that the best thing to do would be to leave it be until I can take it to a bike mechanic back in my country who could remove the rivnut and supply and fit a new one. In the meantime I will have to come up with a different way of attaching the rack (a homemade clamp is probably the only feasible method). Thank you for advising me that it can be fixed, but that it is worth taking care to do so, since I will now ensure that I do not bugger the frame while on the road.

Thank you both once again. I was losing my mind this evening.

Best,

Ben

dsbrantjr

You can use a P-clamp, also called Adel clamps in the aircraft biz: They are cushioned so as not to mar your paintwork.
https://velo-orange.com/products/p-c...der-attachment
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...1919clamps.php

elgrande

Ooh, they a p-clamp looks like it would do just the job. Highly unlikely to find one in a region without a bike shop, so I will try to makeshift something as close as. Some inner tube lining will I hope protect the paintwork. Thank you dsbrantjr.

Davet

Adel clamps and P-clamps aren’t a bike thing necessarily, they’re used heavily in the auto and aviation industries as well as others. Google either Adel or P clamps. They’re available from Amazon amongst other sources.

100bikes

Here is a hack if you don't have access to a rivnut gun.

What you need:

Socket or piece of metal tubing the matches the outside flange of the loose fitting exactly- this is the crucial piece.

Long bolt that matches the thread of the fitting and spins freely inside the socket or metal tube..
Nut that properly fits the long bolt.
Two washers that fit onto bolt properly(not to big of center hole)

Thread the nut to the top of the bolt, put two flat washers on the bolt, then put the socket or tube onto the bolt.
Screw the bolt assembly into the fitting, through all of the internal threads.
Grab the long bolt head with a wrench, and with a second wrench, start turning the nut toward the washers, as if you are unscrewing it from the bolt.
Once the nut hits the washers, continued turning will begin to pull on the internal threads of the loose fitting.
The socket or metal tube will be pushing on the the flange and you will draw the internal threads and external flange closer together( the action of the rivnut gun)

With a bit of torque applied to the adjustable nut, you should be able to re-seat the loose fitting, especially an aluminum one.

I hope I was able to explain this well enough , using what should be commonly available things..

dsbrantjr

This would work great, if only the OP could get the bolt out of the fitting!

elgrande

Thank you for the recommendations 100bikes. I see that P or Adel clamps would be easy to order. At this time of year they are unlikely to arrive for a few weeks so I might have to try to fashion something similar, maybe by drilling two 5mm holes in the ends of a strip of steel (of similar size to that used in the clamps) and bending in a vice, and wrapping with inner tube. It is an unsatisfactory solution, but on the road perhaps my only one.

And to Davet, that makes a lot of sense as a methodology. I watched a video of someone using the rivnut gun, and thought 'that's why I'd need to get to a bike shop, but I didn't actually think through the mechanics and think that it probably could be replicated using a homemade set up. In fact, if you coul somehow mount the assembly, it would actually avoid the small risk you have when using the gun of tilting it to one side.

In any case, as dsbrantjr points out, I cannot tackle this method until the bolt is removed. And given that this requires quite precise drilling of the bolt, I think I will not risk asking a car mechanic to do this for me (I'm not doubting their expertise, rather it won't be something they've probably ever done before). And futhermore, there wouldn't be any point unless he had a replacement rivnut (again, wrong time of year to be ordering one online).

So short term botch, makeshift clamp. Midterm botch, get a P / Adel clamp. Long term: when I am home / somewhere with a bike mechanic or at least access to experienced bolt driller and access to a Rivnut, attempt to remove and refit the original eyelet.

Thank you all for helping me to come up with a plan of action. I am about to visit a car mechanic to attempt solution one. Will update.

Best,

Ben

dsbrantjr

Another approach would be to obtain a left-handed drill set (yes, they make them) and drill out the screw with progressively larger bits. At some point in this process the screw will likely back itself out. It might be worth checking with a car mechanic, as they often drill out broken-off studs and may have the tools, or a local machine shop.

dedhed

P clamps are readily available at hardware stores, auto parts, and home improvement stores. Check in the electrical section

JohnDThompson 

If it's a rivnut, you may be able to fix it yourself. Park Tool has the procedure documented for fixing water bottle mount rivnuts, but the process should be the same for a rack mount:

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...ottle-fittings

elgrande

Thank you again to all for engaging with this. It was so frustrating at first, but as ever with bike problems, once you start to understand them and go about findind solutions, it almost becomes fun...

dsbrantjr this is going to have to be the approach. I see no other way in which to remove the bolt than to disintigrate it form the inside out using a drill. My main concern is that this be done carefully, ideally by someone who has done it before. And second, I need to have lined up a replacement rivnut. I am sure that they could be easily ordered to this part of Croatia fairly quickly, but internet order at this time of year will set me back quite a bit of time.

Equally, dedhed, the local mechanic has just declared that I will not find a P clamp in the whole of Dubrovnik... I doubt this, but I still think it might be hard to find at short notice.

JohnDThompson I wish I had seen this page right at the beginning of the process! It would have explained exactly the setup to me. It is an ingenious solution! However, my methods of removing the bolt were not actually so far off what they recommended. It was truly truly stuck, and there was no way to get any purchase on the rivnut lip. The lip soon knackered. So I think the only option now is to drill; then I am back to my reply to dsbrantjr.

In the end, this is what I have done (see image). Ingredients: a bolt, some nuts and washers, some inner tube, some water lilo... Can anyone see if I have made any grave mechanical oversight? I know that the rack bears the load at the frame mountings at the axle. Little load is born by the seat stay mounts; they are pretty much there just to keep the rack level right? In which case, as a temporary solution, I hope that this might last me a thousand kms or so.

Best,

Ben

elgrande

Im not allowed to post a photo... Ill try a link to my drive:

drive.google.com/open?id=1t1hnY-dJr6XVtlBtwwe5snEC5mq2d-tz

dedhed

Try some place like this.
https://grga.com.hr/index.php?option...139&Itemid=159
Or find an electrician. YOu only need 1 or 2 buy the guy a beer for one.
https://www.electric.hr/hr/

Or ship chandlerys

elgrande

Thank you dedhed. I reckon you're right, and that one could be found. I'll use my botch until I can locate one, since I'm marginally nervous about the bolt thread rubbing through inner tube guard and scratching the frame.

djb

Hey there my big,
i have a bike with similar problem happened years ago, and my bodged p clamp solution has been rock solid now for probably 4 years.
I learned here from the descriptions of the innards of a repair, maybe one day will get it down.
Until then, my inner tube and electric tape to stop scratching, keeps the simple p clamp from slipping or scratching, and the rack is as solid as it ever was.
Good luck with eventual fix,
Or not...
Cheers
Keep an eye on clamp tightness that's all.

elgrande

Hey djb, thanks for the reassurance. Ill pick up a P clamp when I can. Good to hear that they are reliable.

djb

A bike store may have some p clamps in a drawer, or you could improvise with some metal banding or something, or even "strapping" that had holes in it, plumbing strapping you could double or triple layer for more strength.

Miele Man

My local bike shop has given me a couple of sets of rack mounts that included P-clamps. Most hardware stores sell P-clamps too.

Cheers

djb

This guy is in Croatia or something, but I'm sure that sort of improvisational hardware would be common in ex Soviet countries.

elgrande

Again, thank you all for helping me out this with this. I know it seems truly unbelievable, but there is nothing even approaching a bike shop in Dubrovnik, despite it being a city of 40000 people. Ive spent weeks going to the city and asking about, asking at car mechanics (before I needed the P clamp) ''where do people get bike service?'' Answer: ''noone rides a bike here because there are too many hills.'' Me: ''But I ride for hills...'' I know it sounds ridiculous, but the only think on offer is complete 'city' bikes from Intersport. There's no custom riding - road, MTB, gravel etc - scene of any type. I really don't get it. I read a number of trans-European cike blogs online and they all said the same: no bike shops in Dubrovnik. There is one in Split, 230km away... and back the way I came...

I now have anough posts to be able to post an image. Here is my solution:




Not great I know. But mechanically it seems sound. And as I said, the seat stay mounting is not load bearing, it is only really there to keep the rack level.

Miele Man

If you'd like I can go to a bike shop here, get you a couple of P-clamps and mail them to you so that you'd have the proper item. No charge either. All I need is the diameter of your seatstay. You can PM me your address. Do NOT post your address on the forum in the thread.

Cheers

djb

If it's solid, as you say, the weight goes straight down to lower bolt.
this is what I meant by plumbers strapping, stuff with holes in it, there has to be this stuff around, or some aluminum pieces you could bend...
Improvising is key, but if yours is solid, hell just go with it.