Car light car
#26
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I have no beef with carlight people whatsoever. I think it's great when people can reduce their car usage to either a great or small extent, and this is a wonderful place to talk about their experiences.
However, for purposes of discussion on this forum, I like to read about the carfree part of your carlight lifestyle, not the car part of it.
For example, a thread about "what's the best bicycle for carlight people?" is much more interesting (and relevant) than a thread about "what's the best car for carlight people?" (For me, at any rate.)
However, for purposes of discussion on this forum, I like to read about the carfree part of your carlight lifestyle, not the car part of it.
For example, a thread about "what's the best bicycle for carlight people?" is much more interesting (and relevant) than a thread about "what's the best car for carlight people?" (For me, at any rate.)
I have noticed that there are people on here that, like cooker and a few others, who understand and are nudging...
and, Then there are "others", like ILTB...
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Compare that with, say, the elusive and magical Elio. (Let's pretend for the moment that it ever will actually exist. I'll believe it
NOTE: I don't consider a vehicle to be properly capable of hauling a bike in a useful manner if it can't take my bike with racks and fenders intact, and no more disassembly than possibly removing the front wheel, and ideally not even that; the longer it takes to go from loaded to riding and back, the more incentive to take the bike at all is lost. My fender stays already look like they've been run over from trying to load the bike into a reasonably-large-looking recent model SUV, which still involved removing the front wheel, mashing the font fender badly enough that it took a half hour of tweaking to fix the wheel rub, and snagging the back fender several times during loading and unloading. I had previously carried it in a Subaru Legacy Wagon with far less difficulty because the car was made for more than groceries. Carrying it securely is also a substantial concern; a roof or trunk/tailgate/hitch rack is inviting damage and theft. Almost any pickup can get a shell or tonneau cover, which at least puts the bike entirely within the vehicle, out of the path of airborne debris, and out of danger of being destroyed by a low clearance like a roof rack, or by a minor rear-end collision like a trunk mount.
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Makes about as much sense as a discussion on what the best ice cream flavor is. "Best bicycle" depends on way too many factors when car light is part of the equation; the guy who drives a 30 mile commute and uses the bike for his <2 mile local utility trips has vastly different needs (more hauling, less distance - maybe even a single speed cruiser) from the one who works on his farm but wants to ride 10 miles to town for groceries a couple times a week. (hauling and moderate distance - hybrid with racks and panniers) Then you have the ones like Doohickie, that have (or had; haven't heard from him in a while) a relatively long commute, but drive supplies to and from the office weekly to be able to use an unloaded road bike the rest of the time. (long distance, no hauling - whatever he feels like putting 40+ miles on that day) Same when overall family needs come into the equation.
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can take me to Dallas in about 3 hours for less than the cost of the meals on a 2-day ride to get there on the bike. (My Saturn would do the same at roughly equal cost to said meals, and though the A/C never worked right, a 75mph wind cools much better than a 14mph one.) It's nearly as efficient for short trips, so the incentive to bike to the store is essentially lost in any but the best weather; even if it takes $1 in gas, that's sure worth it to drive in 70F A/C or heat rather than ride in 115F sun or 20F freezing rain. Heck, I'd waste more than that on the extra shower and laundry from having my clothes either sweat soaked or rain soaked. All that without providing the extra benefit of being able to haul more stuff than the bike, and without even being able to take the bike along for the "last mile" option.
Car-shares and rental cars are good for this reason, because even if you end up spending several hundred dollars to rent a car for days, it's a lot less than buying one for good. On the other hand, though, after LCFing for many years, I've come to prefer (long distance) bus trips over the idea of renting a car, even though it's probably more expensive, just because I can avoid all the liability and hassle that comes with driving instead of riding. Plus, I just don't want to respond to the temptation of using a car - because I know that temptation is exactly what keeps so much pavement from being reforested.
#30
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The cost of a vehicle cannot compare with a bike. Even if you spend more on meals, that's not going to add up to the many $1000s you spend on a car. To me, one of the saddest things about owning a car is that once you are paying for it, registering it, insuring it, etc. you really have to start looking for more to do with it to make it worth the expenditure.
Car-shares and rental cars are good for this reason, because even if you end up spending several hundred dollars to rent a car for days, it's a lot less than buying one for good. On the other hand, though, after LCFing for many years, I've come to prefer (long distance) bus trips over the idea of renting a car, even though it's probably more expensive, just because I can avoid all the liability and hassle that comes with driving instead of riding. Plus, I just don't want to respond to the temptation of using a car - because I know that temptation is exactly what keeps so much pavement from being reforested.
Car-shares and rental cars are good for this reason, because even if you end up spending several hundred dollars to rent a car for days, it's a lot less than buying one for good. On the other hand, though, after LCFing for many years, I've come to prefer (long distance) bus trips over the idea of renting a car, even though it's probably more expensive, just because I can avoid all the liability and hassle that comes with driving instead of riding. Plus, I just don't want to respond to the temptation of using a car - because I know that temptation is exactly what keeps so much pavement from being reforested.
success, or, well it works better personally than taking the bus...
and... that is why there are TAXI's and rental places for people who use certain vehicles once in awhile...
#31
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Last good car; $700 purchase, $250 initial repairs, $56/yr registration, $12.50/yr inspection, $70/mo insurance. Lasted 3 years and a bit over 200k miles, which comes out to about $100/mo. Less than a fancy cable package. Insurance would have been cheaper had I driven fewer miles, but the whole point of having it was for trips that aren't practical by any other means, and those came out to about 750 miles per month.
#32
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Ok, one more time; I am not a citizen of pansy-ass land where I must go into major debt to buy a brand new car with all the latest features every other year and pretend it's some sort of special investment to be lavishly cared for. It's a box that takes me places I can't reasonably get to on the bike and does it entirely on my terms. Like my dinner, I enjoy it as much as its condition justifies until it's time to flush it down the toilet.
Last good car; $700 purchase, $250 initial repairs, $56/yr registration, $12.50/yr inspection, $70/mo insurance. Lasted 3 years and a bit over 200k miles, which comes out to about $100/mo. Less than a fancy cable package. Insurance would have been cheaper had I driven fewer miles, but the whole point of having it was for trips that aren't practical by any other means, and those came out to about 750 miles per month.
Last good car; $700 purchase, $250 initial repairs, $56/yr registration, $12.50/yr inspection, $70/mo insurance. Lasted 3 years and a bit over 200k miles, which comes out to about $100/mo. Less than a fancy cable package. Insurance would have been cheaper had I driven fewer miles, but the whole point of having it was for trips that aren't practical by any other means, and those came out to about 750 miles per month.
Edit: probably a decimal place error. Did you mean 20,000 miles? Or the car's lifetime mileage was 200,000?
Last edited by cooker; 12-06-17 at 11:01 PM.
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Edit: probably a decimal place error. Did you mean 20,000 miles? Or the car's lifetime mileage was 200,000?
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Car shares, rental cars, and ride-sharing can help supplement transit and cycling, but when a strong culture of personal car use has taken root, it can be difficult for people to psychologically accept the difference between personal car ownership and multimodalism that includes ride-share/car-share. People are basically just not used to walking or biking away from their homes for any reason besides taking a walk around the neighborhood. They are used to having a personal vehicle full of supplies that they carry around with them everywhere without taking them into and out of the house every time they come and go.
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Ok, one more time; I am not a citizen of pansy-ass land where I must go into major debt to buy a brand new car with all the latest features every other year and pretend it's some sort of special investment to be lavishly cared for. It's a box that takes me places I can't reasonably get to on the bike and does it entirely on my terms. Like my dinner, I enjoy it as much as its condition justifies until it's time to flush it down the toilet.
Last good car; $700 purchase, $250 initial repairs, $56/yr registration, $12.50/yr inspection, $70/mo insurance. Lasted 3 years and a bit over 200k miles, which comes out to about $100/mo. Less than a fancy cable package. Insurance would have been cheaper had I driven fewer miles, but the whole point of having it was for trips that aren't practical by any other means, and those came out to about 750 miles per month.
Last good car; $700 purchase, $250 initial repairs, $56/yr registration, $12.50/yr inspection, $70/mo insurance. Lasted 3 years and a bit over 200k miles, which comes out to about $100/mo. Less than a fancy cable package. Insurance would have been cheaper had I driven fewer miles, but the whole point of having it was for trips that aren't practical by any other means, and those came out to about 750 miles per month.
#36
Prefers Cicero
#37
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750 miles of regular trips. I didn't average out all my trips over the life of the car. Basically every month I went to classes in two different cities totalling 750 miles. Other times, I drove to other places, including a 2,000 mile trip and plenty of 200-500 mile ones. but since those weren't frequent trips I didn't count them in the monthly total.
#38
Prefers Cicero
750 miles of regular trips. I didn't average out all my trips over the life of the car. Basically every month I went to classes in two different cities totalling 750 miles. Other times, I drove to other places, including a 2,000 mile trip and plenty of 200-500 mile ones. but since those weren't frequent trips I didn't count them in the monthly total.
Last edited by cooker; 12-07-17 at 12:30 PM.
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Uh, no. Like bicycles, if you insist on being an imbecile, you'll buy a Kent with a worn out freewheel and assume all bicycles on Craigslist are garbage. If you actually take the time to look over the car and know what you're looking for, it's not hard to find the ones with simple issues that kept the previous owner from wearing out expensive stuff.
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Uh, no. Like bicycles, if you insist on being an imbecile, you'll buy a Kent with a worn out freewheel and assume all bicycles on Craigslist are garbage. If you actually take the time to look over the car and know what you're looking for, it's not hard to find the ones with simple issues that kept the previous owner from wearing out expensive stuff.
With cars, you will quickly be spending in the $1000s, and that's if you buy it cash. If you end up with payments, you'll be paying $1000s a year for years, and they will offer you trade-in deals to seduce you into extending your loan. The more you depend on driving, the more automotive businesses depend on you to keep driving.
#41
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And that's why I don't go to used car dealers. I'm pretty good at spotting BS when it comes to Craigslist postings, and there are plenty of people out there who just want to get rid of the ugly car the wife is tired of looking at because hubby never made time to replace the clutch, or busted the shift linkage. In my case, he trashed a rear wheel bearing and his wife wanted him to get a pickup anyway. $60 in parts and about an hour to replace both of them, and a couple hundred to tweak other things, like motor mounts, a pair of tires, all new filters and fluids, etc.
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And that's why I don't go to used car dealers. I'm pretty good at spotting BS when it comes to Craigslist postings, and there are plenty of people out there who just want to get rid of the ugly car the wife is tired of looking at because hubby never made time to replace the clutch, or busted the shift linkage. In my case, he trashed a rear wheel bearing and his wife wanted him to get a pickup anyway. $60 in parts and about an hour to replace both of them, and a couple hundred to tweak other things, like motor mounts, a pair of tires, all new filters and fluids, etc.
#43
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We have an Amtrak /ODOT affiliate company running Buses out here , from PDX 2x daily.. the big city has Zip Cars and Uber/Lyft.
the local buses have a 2 bike rack on the front.
We also have a few taxi companies to get people home from the bars.
the local buses have a 2 bike rack on the front.
We also have a few taxi companies to get people home from the bars.
#44
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If the casino will let me see what order the deck is in before they deal, I'll be so "lucky" I'll have a limo and chauffeur by the time I leave. Never yet had a seller refuse to let me go over the engine with a stethoscope or pop out a couple spark plugs and look over the cylinders and piston heads with a borescope. Most cars, it'll also let you look over the lifters and valve stems through the oil filler hole. Through the throttle body for a look at how much gunk is in the intake, and manual transmissions, including the clutch, I can pretty much gauge by the feel. If there's any doubt, while the plugs are out, a compression gauge check only takes a couple minutes. Run it hard on the test drive and save checking out the stereo until after you've listened to the engine under various load conditions.
If a seller is even remotely reticent to let me take 20-30 minutes looking it over and a test drive long enough to get it fully warmed up, it's a simple matter to go to the next ad on CL. Most of the ones that attract my interest are happy to have me list off anything I find, and the last time I didn't buy from one, he updated his listing with the new issues and a $100 lower price by the end of the day. Somebody selling a running car for $500 isn't usually doing it because they need cash, but because they need the car gone, and just want to get something for it. Most of the good ones I've found were guys who wanted someone to get some use out of it or they'd have already scrapped or donated it.
Greyhound means going to the next city is a 2-3 day trip, minimum, because they don't run any same-day returns. Not realistic for going 70 miles away to take a class or catch a dance.
Imagine the problems if you're too lazy to look over a bike once in a while, or to maintain it at all. When the car deteriorates to the point where repairs start costing more than replacing it with another $500-1000 beater, I start looking around again. I've had far more unexpected failures in bad places from bikes than cars, and at least with the car I can lock the doors and leave it there while I walk to better cell reception.
If a seller is even remotely reticent to let me take 20-30 minutes looking it over and a test drive long enough to get it fully warmed up, it's a simple matter to go to the next ad on CL. Most of the ones that attract my interest are happy to have me list off anything I find, and the last time I didn't buy from one, he updated his listing with the new issues and a $100 lower price by the end of the day. Somebody selling a running car for $500 isn't usually doing it because they need cash, but because they need the car gone, and just want to get something for it. Most of the good ones I've found were guys who wanted someone to get some use out of it or they'd have already scrapped or donated it.
Do Greyhound allow bikes in the cargo hold? I think that's the better option than buying a crapping old car and risk a expensive repairs. And you'll be constantly fixing the car, lots of little things. Even the best car will start to deteriorate due to age. And imagine you are in between two cities, in middle of nowhere, and it breaks down on you. Imagine the towing cost$$$.
Imagine the problems if you're too lazy to look over a bike once in a while, or to maintain it at all. When the car deteriorates to the point where repairs start costing more than replacing it with another $500-1000 beater, I start looking around again. I've had far more unexpected failures in bad places from bikes than cars, and at least with the car I can lock the doors and leave it there while I walk to better cell reception.
#45
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In my experience that tends to be true. I know I've been in that position a number of times. Hate to junk a car that has life left in it, but issues I don't feel like dealing with.
#46
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And there's always somebody like me that will drive it until the wheels fall off, then replace the hubs and drive it until the head starts leaking.
#47
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Greyhound means going to the next city is a 2-3 day trip, minimum, because they don't run any same-day returns. Not realistic for going 70 miles away to take a class or catch a dance.
#48
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That's not what I mean with the casino comparison. I am talking about getting people hooked on driving so that they are always stuck paying insurance, car payments, repairs, etc. The casino can afford to let you win some to get you hooked so you will keep playing long after you start losing.
I tallied up repairs on my Saturn for a year, and I spent $320 in parts. If I'd gone to a mechanic rather than pay an extra $20 for a service manual, then parts and labor would have still been right at $1000 for that year. I could have bought and fixed up 4-5 equivalent beaters (thus having plenty of spares) and still spent substantially less than my boss at the time was paying on his brand new Dodge that got three wrecker rides in its first year. (But of course, he bought new because he "needs it to be reliable." Didn't seem to help much when he spent a half day in a cafe in Marble Falls waiting for a sales rep to come pick him up, then had to burn another 6 hours - 3 hours of that also taking up a sales rep's time - a few days later to go pick the truck up from the dealer in Austin. For what we lost on the contract he didn't get that day, I could have put a "free to good home" sign on my car, left it there, hitchhiked and bought another off Craigslist later.)
If there was enough demand, there would enough routes in both directions to allow for same-day returns.
EDIT: Just checked and they've completely dropped service here. Not overly surprising, as there's an on-demand airport shuttle for $115 flat rate for up to 3 people each way, (which will generally drop anywhere in FW for no extra charge, and convenient points in Dallas for a little extra) when Greyhound was $40 each way with miserable scheduling.
Last edited by KD5NRH; 12-12-17 at 08:03 PM.
#49
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Insurance isn't that expensive if you buy cash up front and don't have to carry full coverage. That also means no car payments. Learning to do basic repairs yourself, and using regular mechanics instead of dealerships for anything else will keep a beater running for far less than a typical car payment.
I tallied up repairs on my Saturn for a year, and I spent $320 in parts. If I'd gone to a mechanic rather than pay an extra $20 for a service manual, then parts and labor would have still been right at $1000 for that year. I could have bought and fixed up 4-5 equivalent beaters (thus having plenty of spares) and still spent substantially less than my boss at the time was paying on his brand new Dodge that got three wrecker rides in its first year. (But of course, he bought new because he "needs it to be reliable." Didn't seem to help much when he spent a half day in a cafe in Marble Falls waiting for a sales rep to come pick him up, then had to burn another 6 hours - 3 hours of that also taking up a sales rep's time - a few days later to go pick the truck up from the dealer in Austin. For what we lost on the contract he didn't get that day, I could have put a "free to good home" sign on my car, left it there, hitchhiked and bought another off Craigslist later.)
Not likely on any useful schedule; probably half the trips to DFW from here other than crazy commuters (yes, there are a few that drive 70-150 miles each way every day) are Friday and Saturday evening trips, yet there's no Sunday service at all. If you go up there for something on Saturday, you're stuck waiting for one that gets here Monday afternoon. It's highly improbable that they'd offer a redeye route to get folks home from Cowboys or Rangers games, or any of the other evening activities that would pretty much necessitate a 1AM or later departure unless the numbers got to the point where they could guarantee packed buses every time.
EDIT: Just checked and they've completely dropped service here. Not overly surprising, as there's an on-demand airport shuttle for $115 flat rate for up to 3 people each way, (which will generally drop anywhere in FW for no extra charge, and convenient points in Dallas for a little extra) when Greyhound was $40 each way with miserable scheduling.
I tallied up repairs on my Saturn for a year, and I spent $320 in parts. If I'd gone to a mechanic rather than pay an extra $20 for a service manual, then parts and labor would have still been right at $1000 for that year. I could have bought and fixed up 4-5 equivalent beaters (thus having plenty of spares) and still spent substantially less than my boss at the time was paying on his brand new Dodge that got three wrecker rides in its first year. (But of course, he bought new because he "needs it to be reliable." Didn't seem to help much when he spent a half day in a cafe in Marble Falls waiting for a sales rep to come pick him up, then had to burn another 6 hours - 3 hours of that also taking up a sales rep's time - a few days later to go pick the truck up from the dealer in Austin. For what we lost on the contract he didn't get that day, I could have put a "free to good home" sign on my car, left it there, hitchhiked and bought another off Craigslist later.)
Not likely on any useful schedule; probably half the trips to DFW from here other than crazy commuters (yes, there are a few that drive 70-150 miles each way every day) are Friday and Saturday evening trips, yet there's no Sunday service at all. If you go up there for something on Saturday, you're stuck waiting for one that gets here Monday afternoon. It's highly improbable that they'd offer a redeye route to get folks home from Cowboys or Rangers games, or any of the other evening activities that would pretty much necessitate a 1AM or later departure unless the numbers got to the point where they could guarantee packed buses every time.
EDIT: Just checked and they've completely dropped service here. Not overly surprising, as there's an on-demand airport shuttle for $115 flat rate for up to 3 people each way, (which will generally drop anywhere in FW for no extra charge, and convenient points in Dallas for a little extra) when Greyhound was $40 each way with miserable scheduling.
#50
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As for bike mechanic, you city slickers could move your pansy butts down here and give me enough work to make at least minimum wage at that.