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6 months without a car in Detroit

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6 months without a car in Detroit

Old 02-07-18, 01:19 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Before I would spend much time to "device" a system to correct a problem of theft off of bus bike racks, I would first have to agree that the current situation needs fixing or improvement, and that the alleged problem of theft off of bus bike racks is not imaginary or so isolated in occurrence that no changes to the system are required or worthwhile, or that devising a "easy far better system" of transporting bikes on public buses is quite low on anybody's priority list except perhaps the person who "devised" the problem.
I've only used our racks twice and both times with a fenderless bike. We have a swing arm that stretches up to loop over a tire and holds the bike in place due to spring tension. I don't know if it would crush or displace my full size bike fenders, or if it would even work with the 20" Bike Friday wheels. However I see people using it all the time, and they simply sit or stand near the front of the bus and keep an eye on their bikes. Since it is a quick on and off setup, it doesn't slow the bus up much when it is loaded and unloaded. The main downsides are that it only holds two bikes, and one is placed behind the other so the inner one is a bit awkward to get at when both slots are occupied.

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Old 02-07-18, 01:29 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by cooker
I've only used our racks twice and both times with a fenderless bike. We have a swing arm that stretches up to loop over a tire and holds the bike in place due to spring tension. I don't know if it would crush or displace my full size bike fenders, or if it would even work with the 20" Bike Friday wheels. However I see people using it all the time, and they simply sit or stand near the front of the bus and keep an eye on their bikes. Since it is a quick on and off setup, it doesn't hold the bus up much when it is loaded and unloaded. The main downsides are that it only holds two bikes, and one is placed behind the other so the inner one is a bit awkward to get at when both slots are occupied.
I understand a desire for easier on/off access or more capacity if required by demand. I don't know of easy solutions but would certainly think anyone really concerned about devising improved bicycle transport systems used by public buses would be better served by trying to come up with realistic solutions to real problems such as you pointed out, rather than imagined ones.
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Old 02-07-18, 01:35 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by cooker
I've only used our racks twice and both times with a fenderless bike. We have a swing arm that stretches up to loop over a tire and holds the bike in place due to spring tension. I don't know if it would crush or displace my full size bike fenders, or if it would even work with the 20" Bike Friday wheels. However I see people using it all the time, and they simply sit or stand near the front of the bus and keep an eye on their bikes. Since it is a quick on and off setup, it doesn't slow the bus up much when it is loaded and unloaded. The main downsides are that it only holds two bikes, and one is placed behind the other so the inner one is a bit awkward to get at when both slots are occupied.
It is a system that could be improved. I just question whether it needs to be improved as a theft deterrent, because I've not seen any indication that there are thefts in numbers that would merit that concern. But I'm basing that on a relatively few cities that I've used the system in, so I could simply be uninformed.

But, yes, I have used the bike racks with and without fenders. If the fenders come too far forward, the hook is in danger of slipping forward off the tire. Some times I can actually slide the hook under the fender if there's enough clearance. When I had front, platform rack, I had exactly that problem. My solution was a bungee strap that went from the lower rack mount to the handlebars: leave the lower end attached ; put hook over tire ; attach loose end of strap to the handlebars. Took 2 seconds and now the hook isn't going anywhere. I've also used small wheeled bikes on the rack. In most cases, the hook is too long or at least at too low of tension to grab the front wheel. One bike had a front rack, and I let the hook catch the front rack. It was very secure until one driver told the hook must go over the tire. I complied. We went one stop before the hook slid off, and he said, "You're way works better. Go fix it." With my other 20" bike, the hook actually grabs nicely at the top of the fork. That bike is also a folding bike, so technically I could take it on the bus, but some lines require that it be in a bike bag, so I usually don't bother.
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Old 02-08-18, 01:22 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Also, they were not “Motorless,” and Certainly not “Car-Free.” Even in the three seasons of decent weather, they rented cars.
"Car-light," to me, sounds like someone owns a car but uses it less/sparingly by actively seeking to bike, walk, and use transit more and/or telecommute, carpool, etc.

"Car-free," to me, doesn't mean you never ever use a car but that you don't own one. Now, you can argue that a person who doesn't own a car still does as much or more as someone who is 'car-light,' and then the terms don't make as much sense, but to me the basic principle of "car-light" involves owning the car but using it less.

I sometimes accept rides or drive on occasion, but I still wouldn't consider myself 'car-light' because the cars I use aren't my own. I do own a car but it hasn't been registered or insured for years and I just keep it around as a reminder of what I don't want to deal with.
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Old 02-09-18, 03:02 PM
  #30  
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I think we all see these postings with our own bias based on how we have lived our lives and the things we have read. Whenever I see an article like the OP posted I wonder if it is posted by the chamber of commerce. If Detroit is getting better I have to wonder how bad it must have been ten years ago? I usually first look at where the places rate nationally and see if the cities have moved up or down in safety since the last time I looked. I even check several sources for a consensus. There are a lot of places I might consider living and cycling but Detroit wouldn't be high on my list.

It makes me wonder about just what some consider car free and even where in Detroit the article is talking about.

But at least the person got his article published if that was the goal.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj4.../#44fe97a969d9
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...sxtw1#image=26
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Old 02-09-18, 05:02 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155
There are a lot of places I might consider living and cycling but Detroit wouldn't be high on my list.
Unless I happened to live in Detroit.

If I had to live somewhere because of my job ... as it happens, i have had to move because of my wife's job ... and I am incredibly lucky to be able to live without having to commute long distances by car. But if something changed .... I'd have to make the best of it wherever i was.

I am sure there are neighborhoods of Detroit through which is not safe for fewer than two armed men together to walk ... but there are those neighborhoods in a lot of cities. I am sure there are also neighborhoods where people can live a reasonable life. I don't think the people who wrote this article were lying.

I thought it was great that those people did what they did ...

To me "LCF" and "car-light" aren't goals ... "LCF" is not "nirvana" to me. These people made good choices ... they liked their lives and simplified them some, and because LCF wasn't a religion to them either, thy didn't see anything wrong with using a car. They didn't strive to be car-less as if it were some state of higher purity. They found it simpler and easier and cheaper.

That's why I do it as well. I have been told that such a view is not welcome on this site, because here, LCF is the highest state a human can hope to achieve. Even the person who says no one here preaches, defended my from some naysayers by saying "he is pretty car light--even more so than me." See whether he knows it or admits it, the fewer miles you drive, the better you are .. in the estimation of far too many folks on this site.

To me car-lite is a practical matter for some folks and not for others ... and I see it as a possibility that some people never think to try, but might like. These folks saw how it might work, and made it work. Doesn't make them better or worse. it does mean they understand some of what the rest of us here do, and it means we understand some of what they do, better than most ... even after those other folks read the article.

The problem with the world isn't too many people or too many cars or too many people driving too many miles in too many cars.

When people are willing to hate on each other for how many miles they drive, or for pruning shrubbery, or for thinking differently about a magazine article .....
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Old 02-09-18, 05:09 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155
I think we all see these postings with our own bias based on how we have lived our lives and the things we have read. Whenever I see an article like the OP posted I wonder if it is posted by the chamber of commerce. If Detroit is getting better I have to wonder how bad it must have been ten years ago? I usually first look at where the places rate nationally and see if the cities have moved up or down in safety since the last time I looked. I even check several sources for a consensus. There are a lot of places I might consider living and cycling but Detroit wouldn't be high on my list.

It makes me wonder about just what some consider car free and even where in Detroit the article is talking about.

But at least the person got his article published if that was the goal.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj4.../#44fe97a969d9
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...sxtw1#image=26
Often the crime occurs in specific neighbourhoods and doesn't affect all residents equally. Presumably these guys live and work in a gentrified, middle class part of town. Atlanta and Oakland also rank pretty high on the homicide list, but you don't hear a lot of discussion of how dangerous they are, because people haven't generalized from the crime-ridden parts to the whole city.

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Old 02-09-18, 06:48 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by cooker
Often the crime occurs in specific neighbourhoods and doesn't affect all residents equally. Presumably these guys live and work in a gentrified, middle class part of town. Atlanta and Oakland also rank pretty high on the homicide list, but you don't hear a lot of discussion of how dangerous they are, because people haven't generalized from the crime-ridden parts to the whole city.
Oh yes, Oakland has a reputation as does San Bernardino. And they show up on the list. But the pictures of Detroit and the blight is far greater. I do believe in the last ten years they have moved off of the top spot a time or two. Plus Detroit was the largest city to go bankrupt in our lifetime. I am just saying that someone looking at moving that looks at sites about where to live will be unlikely to see Detroit proper listed as a recommendation. In my opinion. So I doubt the honesty of such articles based on everything else we read about "Detroit"

I agree there must be good parts of the city where you might leave a bike parked all day and find it when you came back to it. But yes if it is advertised as a gated gentrified community it would be easier to accept as not a real estate ad.

But these places do develop a earned reputation. Many years ago I had a job driving tractor trailer. We had a service to call in case of equipment failure or flat tires. Normally they took two to three hours to get to and replace a tire. I got to Oakland about two hours before dark once and called for a blown tire. The repair guy got to me and changed the tire in under an hour. I was impressed and complimented him on his companies service. His response to me went something like, "Dude, had it been dark you would have had to sleep in the cab till morning. I do not service this area after dark. " It may have been hyperbole but I have had the same opinion of Oakland for years.

Like I said we have lived different lives and have perceptions that form our bias about stories like the OP posted. I wondered where the city rated and looked it up and still after all these years it was rated as a bad place to life. The only bike I would ride in Detroit would have 1000cc and rear sets and clip on bars. In short I question the veracity of OP's message based on experience, at least based on national statistics.

I can agree it might be getting better, I don't know for a fact, but I saw the OP a bit like a sales pitch. I know they are still knocking down whole tracts of buildings in a hope of renewal. I am not ready to hold my breath.

https://www.economist.com/news/unite...ne-detroit-end

Last edited by Mobile 155; 02-09-18 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 02-09-18, 11:27 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155
Oh yes, Oakland has a reputation as does San Bernardino. And they show up on the list. But the pictures of Detroit and the blight is far greater. I do believe in the last ten years they have moved off of the top spot a time or two. Plus Detroit was the largest city to go bankrupt in our lifetime. I am just saying that someone looking at moving that looks at sites about where to live will be unlikely to see Detroit proper listed as a recommendation. In my opinion. So I doubt the honesty of such articles based on everything else we read about "Detroit"

I agree there must be good parts of the city where you might leave a bike parked all day and find it when you came back to it. But yes if it is advertised as a gated gentrified community it would be easier to accept as not a real estate ad.

But these places do develop a earned reputation. Many years ago I had a job driving tractor trailer. We had a service to call in case of equipment failure or flat tires. Normally they took two to three hours to get to and replace a tire. I got to Oakland about two hours before dark once and called for a blown tire. The repair guy got to me and changed the tire in under an hour. I was impressed and complimented him on his companies service. His response to me went something like, "Dude, had it been dark you would have had to sleep in the cab till morning. I do not service this area after dark. " It may have been hyperbole but I have had the same opinion of Oakland for years.

Like I said we have lived different lives and have perceptions that form our bias about stories like the OP posted. I wondered where the city rated and looked it up and still after all these years it was rated as a bad place to life. The only bike I would ride in Detroit would have 1000cc and rear sets and clip on bars. In short I question the veracity of OP's message based on experience, at least based on national statistics.

I can agree it might be getting better, I don't know for a fact, but I saw the OP a bit like a sales pitch. I know they are still knocking down whole tracts of buildings in a hope of renewal. I am not ready to hold my breath.

https://www.economist.com/news/unite...ne-detroit-end
Nobody is telling you to move there.
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Old 02-09-18, 11:33 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cooker
Nobody is telling you to move there.
Not likely I know. Nor would I ever suggest it to anyone I cared about. Just pointing out the reputation for the city.
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Old 02-10-18, 04:15 AM
  #36  
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Here is the real issue: Either a person thinks that whole article is fake, or a person thinks it is mostly accurate.

Why anyone would doubt that there might be some nice sections of Detroit .... based on a few pictures .... whatever. I don't let the media think for me.

I used to live in Mouse Town, in Florida. If you ever see anything in the media about the city, (or any other city adjacent to Disneyworkld) you would think the whole state is vacation Paradise.

It is also the state where a lot of episodes of "Cops" are filmed, and which provides the greatest number of YouTube videos of stupid pranks gone wrong and stupid criminals causing mayhem.

I lived there and all around there for along time. I am a pretty cool character, who is generally comfortable in any setting, and I have lived in some places which would scare a lot of people.

At the same time, there were places in Orlando---some very close to downtown, six blocks form downtown, where I learned not to because there were gangs of punks who would cause trouble. I never couldn't get away, but it is no joke when you realize you could get seriously beat buy a bunch of punks just for just walking through.

On the other hand, I walked or biked 97 percent of the city and some of what good, some great, some very gentrified and big-bucks upscale.

I don't think they were lying in that article, just living in an oasis of securioty where well-to-do people lived and worked.

No one thinks the pictures of Detroit's bad sections are faked .... but no ojne shows the same sections for All cities I have been in .... and I have seen the bad side of a lot of cities.

if this was Baltimore, would you have believed it? have you ever cruised the bad sections of Baltimore on bike. it's scary. I have been robbed in Boston, seen the worst sides of New York ..... but If i said I bike commuted in any of those cities everyone would understand I didn't mean the most dangerous neighborhoods.
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Old 02-10-18, 05:55 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I have been robbed in Boston, seen the worst sides of New York ..... but If I said I bike commuted in any of those cities everyone would understand I didn't mean the most dangerous neighborhoods.
I perked up when I read that, and I googled murders in the (tony) Back Bay, and there were a good number of assaults, especially in the hours of darkness. During the early morning after dawn I will ride through some reputably “bad” areas in Boston, yet I won’t ride on a darkened MUP in some “nice” ones.


There was this recent thread on the Great Lakes Regional Discusssion Forum, "Riding through Detroit", with some sage replies.
Originally Posted by robert schlatte
This summer I am planning a bike tour from…The most direct route would be through Toledo, Monroe, and Detroit generally following Lake Erie and the Detroit River. … in this case, biking through these urban area intrigues me but I don't want to do anything foolhardy.

So my question is, of all you folks familiar with Detroit and environs, would it be relatively safe (scale of 1 to 10, 10 being unsafest) to bike through Detroit along the general route as proposed?

Should I absolutely avoid these areas or can I cycle through relatively safely? If it is okay, are there particular areas to avoid? Would there be a preferred route?
Originally Posted by chas58
I love biking through detroit. Can it be rough? Yeah. So much has improved in Detroit, there is so much to see, there are so many bikers and bike lanes, andthe river front has gotten pretty nice (finally)….
Originally Posted by chas58
You can kind of see the abandoned areas along the route (or anywhere in Detroit) on satellite view, as they have lotsof open green space and blocks with no buildings left on them. You'll have tobe pretty self-sufficient if you have any breakdowns in these areas.

I do it (typically between 6am and 10am weekends), but it is a bad place to have a breakdown!
Originally Posted by Silverexpress
...As long as you stay within the Downtown area and along these venues you will be safe. Police presence has increased, and they have surveillance cameras on almost everybuilding. Things I would watch out for....[follow the link]..
Originally Posted by DTownDave22
... I find riding on roads that are more suburban/exurbs more dangerous because ofthe design and speed limit vs. Detroit and the crime potential.
Originally Posted by Silverexpress
…You just need to watch out for the Q-Line rails - this is Detroit's new trolley system. The rails are about a foot from the curb at some sections so riding into it would not be good.

You may need to walk the bike at these sections.This will at least allow you to see all the new things this City has going forit now. This, as far as crime goes, is a very safe addition to your route…

The downtown area is relatively safe with millions (if not billions of dollars being poured into it), its the outlying neighborhoods that you need to watch out for. The neighborhoods around the downtown airport, the Conner Industrial area, the 7 mi road corridor...etc...are places to avoid.
...
Originally Posted by jefnvk
I'd be wary of some of those roads. Not from a personal safety standpoint, but from a traffic standpoint, they can get quite busy at times. 5 lane state highways running through urban sprawl at rush hour isn't exactly my idea of a good time…
Originally Posted by Foldy313
As long as you stay aware of your surroundings at all times, you'll be fine in Detroit during the day. That said, if you see something that doesn't look quite right, fight your curiousity and keep moving. Don't get in the middle of someone else's problem and don't expect the police to come to your rescue.
I have not quoted the many specific routes and sights touted on the at thread, or more which I know personally (link).

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Old 02-10-18, 08:27 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155
Not likely I know. Nor would I ever suggest it to anyone I cared about.
And hopefully not to people you don't particularly care for either. Still, if they're like my people, they don't always follow my advice!

The guy has lived in downtown Detroit for 11 years and before that "in the suburbs" (of Detroit, it seems). They live in the Lafayette neighbourhood, which is a cold spot on the Detroit crime heat map. I'm sure he has a pretty good sense of when and where it is safe to be out and about around the city. https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/D...ichigan/crime/

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Old 02-10-18, 10:28 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Here is the real issue: Either a person thinks that whole article is fake, or a person thinks it is mostly accurate.

Why anyone would doubt that there might be some nice sections of Detroit .... based on a few pictures .... whatever. I don't let the media think for me.

I used to live in Mouse Town, in Florida. If you ever see anything in the media about the city, (or any other city adjacent to Disneyworkld) you would think the whole state is vacation Paradise.

It is also the state where a lot of episodes of "Cops" are filmed, and which provides the greatest number of YouTube videos of stupid pranks gone wrong and stupid criminals causing mayhem.

I lived there and all around there for along time. I am a pretty cool character, who is generally comfortable in any setting, and I have lived in some places which would scare a lot of people.

At the same time, there were places in Orlando---some very close to downtown, six blocks form downtown, where I learned not to because there were gangs of punks who would cause trouble. I never couldn't get away, but it is no joke when you realize you could get seriously beat buy a bunch of punks just for just walking through.

On the other hand, I walked or biked 97 percent of the city and some of what good, some great, some very gentrified and big-bucks upscale.

I don't think they were lying in that article, just living in an oasis of securioty where well-to-do people lived and worked.

No one thinks the pictures of Detroit's bad sections are faked .... but no ojne shows the same sections for All cities I have been in .... and I have seen the bad side of a lot of cities.

if this was Baltimore, would you have believed it? have you ever cruised the bad sections of Baltimore on bike. it's scary. I have been robbed in Boston, seen the worst sides of New York ..... but If i said I bike commuted in any of those cities everyone would understand I didn't mean the most dangerous neighborhoods.
I just get a bad feeling when someone says they are motor free for 6 months and then within a few paragraphs says they started using Lyft and Uber in the first two months. In his husbands case it was they used the car option a lot. Then without batting an eye we heard the joys of Maven and car rental. Somehow that six months thing sounds like a stretch for someone claiming to be motorless for six months in the motor city. In the article the guy posted this, and then all about Maven in the next paragraph.

"For the first couple months we didn't have a car, my husband gamely joined me in biking to and from work. But once the season shifted and the mornings started getting darker and chillier, he decided that he'd rather take a Lyft to work most days. (I can respect the decision; cold bike rides in the dark are my idea of a good time, but not everyone's.) I joined him a few times, and in general, liked the experience. Lyft drivers tend to be really friendly, and by riding with them, you're supporting the local economy, driver by driver."

Now it could all be a misunderstanding of what motorless is to this guy but it doesn't sound what motorless sounds like to me. Just saying.
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Old 02-11-18, 04:07 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155
Now it could all be a misunderstanding of what motorless is to this guy but it doesn't sound what motorless sounds like to me. Just saying.
I got reprimanded for saying that, look out.

Thing is .... it is still a good story .... I think we can all relate to the issues this person faced.

Ithink we all have gotten up, looked out the window, and suppressed the through, :Oh no, I have to ride in This?" because yes, in 45 minutes you Will Be out riding in that, and it will only be harder if you think about it in advance. Dress for it, suffer, get through it.

And I know Nowadays .... when I have the option, there have been a few days over the years when I said, "Flog it, i will just take the car."

After enough years car-free ... i don't criticize people who don't want to see whether hypothermia or frostbite wins the race.
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Old 02-11-18, 08:09 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155
I just get a bad feeling when someone says they are motor free for 6 months and then within a few paragraphs says they started using Lyft and Uber in the first two months. In his husbands case it was they used the car option a lot. Then without batting an eye we heard the joys of Maven and car rental. Somehow that six months thing sounds like a stretch for someone claiming to be motorless for six months in the motor city. In the article the guy posted this, and then all about Maven in the next paragraph.

"For the first couple months we didn't have a car, my husband gamely joined me in biking to and from work. But once the season shifted and the mornings started getting darker and chillier, he decided that he'd rather take a Lyft to work most days. (I can respect the decision; cold bike rides in the dark are my idea of a good time, but not everyone's.) I joined him a few times, and in general, liked the experience. Lyft drivers tend to be really friendly, and by riding with them, you're supporting the local economy, driver by driver."

Now it could all be a misunderstanding of what motorless is to this guy but it doesn't sound what motorless sounds like to me. Just saying.
You're getting hung up on terminology as if that's what's most important. The guy clearly described what happened. He and his partner went from owning two cars to owning none to owning one, and the availability of cars for hire to replace some, but not all of their driving, as well as bikes for hire, improved public transit, improved bike facilities, and an improved awareness of their options, helped them significantly reduce their car dependence.
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Old 02-11-18, 09:48 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by cooker
You're getting hung up on terminology as if that's what's most important. The guy clearly described what happened. He and his partner went from owning two cars to owning none to owning one, and the availability of cars for hire to replace some, but not all of their driving, as well as bikes for hire, improved public transit, improved bike facilities, and an improved awareness of their options, helped them significantly reduce their car dependence.
Like it has already been mentioned it was a good story. And I have admitted my bias towards terminology being important. I admit also to feeling mislead by the title of the article. I just see the title as a “hook” used to get someone to read the story. I know it would not have been published with a title, “Using a car less for 6 months in the motor city.

I view the story as human interest more than informational. My bias explained.
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Old 02-11-18, 11:11 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155
Like it has already been mentioned it was a good story. And I have admitted my bias towards terminology being important. I admit also to feeling mislead by the title of the article. I just see the title as a “hook” used to get someone to read the story. I know it would not have been published with a title, “Using a car less for 6 months in the motor city.

I view the story as human interest more than informational. My bias explained.
My experience was much like yours. The title was a "good" title, as in nearly click-bait, not accurate, catchy enough to be inviting and close enough to being true that most people probably wouldn't care ,... and frankly most people probably forgot the title halfway through the first paragraph anyway.

Part of the "bias" here is that most posters here are probably car-light or car-free, so to us it is "Oh, yeah, I've been there."

For most car-owning magazine readers, this is like Columbus coming back and saying "I didn't fall off the edge of the world!"

That's metaphorical, by the way ... the stick-up-the-butt history prigs who want to tell me he obviously knew the world was round ... you have to be yourselves, which is the worst punishment I could imagine for you.
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Old 02-11-18, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
My experience was much like yours. The title was a "good" title, as in nearly click-bait, not accurate, catchy enough to be inviting and close enough to being true that most people probably wouldn't care ,... and frankly most people probably forgot the title halfway through the first paragraph anyway.

Part of the "bias" here is that most posters here are probably car-light or car-free, so to us it is "Oh, yeah, I've been there."

For most car-owning magazine readers, this is like Columbus coming back and saying "I didn't fall off the edge of the world!"

That's metaphorical, by the way ... the stick-up-the-butt history prigs who want to tell me he obviously knew the world was round ... you have to be yourselves, which is the worst punishment I could imagine for you.
Point taken. I have had similar problems with posts on Facebook.
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Old 02-12-18, 08:46 AM
  #45  
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Thanks for collating, JimfromBoston. I'm almost sorry I shared the story with some of the fear mongering about Detroit. But at least we're having a relatively civil conversion.

Another tip I would give about Detroit or any place that has poverty or crime is if you can't be cool riding in a certain area, then play it cool. And if you can't play it cool, don't go.
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Old 02-12-18, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cooker
They live in the Lafayette neighbourhood, which is a cold spot on the Detroit crime heat map. I'm sure he has a pretty good sense of when and where it is safe to be out and about around the city. https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/D...ichigan/crime/
Bingo! I looked at a crime map before we bought our condo, which is in one of the safest neighborhoods in Detroit. And I not only looked at the number and types of crimes, but I clicked on the actual incidents. A typical one would be someone sitting in their car at 3 a.m. in a sketchy area is assaulted. Draw your own conclusions, but something like that is not going to affect someone commuting by bike.
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Old 02-12-18, 09:48 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Foldy313
Another tip I would give about Detroit or any place that has poverty or crime is if you can't be cool riding in a certain area, then play it cool. And if you can't play it cool, don't go.
Care to clarify, how specifically does a bicyclist "be cool" or "play it cool" when riding in certain areas? What should they do, or not do?
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Old 02-12-18, 10:41 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Care to clarify, how specifically does a bicyclist "be cool" or "play it cool" when riding in certain areas? What should they do, or not do?
Be confident. Be observant. Act like you know where you are and where you are going. And keep your emotions in check.

For example, if you are riding along and find yourself going down a street where many homes are burned out and abandoned and start to fear for your safety, don't stop and stare with your mouth hanging open. Don't point and joke with your friend about the kind of people who must be living there. Don't break into your fastest sprint without knowing where you're going. Calmly backtrack and find another route.

And if a car full of people comes along and they call you names, just keep pedaling. Don't call them names back or give them the finger. Ignore and avoid, don't escalate.

The closest call I've had in five years in Detroit was another cyclist riding up to me and baring his teeth and growling like an animal. It was so unusual the first time it took me by surprise. I just figured he was off his meds and didn't say or do anything. The second time got my hackles up, and I thought he might attack me. I told myself if he does it again, I'm going to confront him. That was a bad idea. You can't argue with crazy. Things could have gotten physical and who knows?

Fortunately, he didn't do it again, and I rode away like I should have done in the first place. And that's when I started reading up on situational awareness and safety.
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Old 02-12-18, 11:12 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…There wast his recent thread on the Great Lakes Regional Discussion Forum, "Riding through Detroit", with some sage replies. I have not quoted the many specific routes and sights touted on that thread, or more which I know personally (link).
Originally Posted by Foldy313
Thanks for collating, JimfromBoston. I'm almost sorry I shared the story with some of the fear mongering about Detroit. But at least we're having a relatively civil conversion.

Another tip I would give about Detroit or any place that has poverty or crime is if you can't be cool riding in a certain area, then play it cool. And if you can't play it cool, don't go.
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Care to clarify,how specifically does a bicyclist "be cool" or "play it cool" when riding in certain areas? What should they do, or not do?
Among my collated replies mentioned above, there was one with a lot of references to points of interest, and with advice with the prompt, “follow the link.” Here it is:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress
…As long as you stay within the Downtown area and along these venues you will be safe. Police presence has increased, and they have surveillance cameras on almost every building. Things I would watch out for....

1. Groups of 2 or more teenagers with baggy clothing and or hoodies.
- arguing, yelling, and generally being obnoxious are tell tale signs that someone will pull out a gun and start shooting. Not at you, but you could get caught in the crossfire.
- Alcohol is a big warning to stay away.

2. If you somehow end up in a Detroit neighborhood and find a house with a half dozen cars parked on the lawn side to side with their front ends facing the street. Scoot like crazy.
Originally Posted by chas58
Unless you smell BBQ. Lots of impromptu cookouts in the many open fields of Detroit in the summer... ;-)
3. Chances of you having a run in with the dark side are fairly low. However, I would suggest that you visit a local gun range, so you can become acquainted with the sound of gunfire. You would more than likely not be a target, but it's an experience you'll take with you wherever you go.

Most pistols are hard to aim at 25 ft and beyond. Even less effective if the shooter is all drugged up.So distance is your friend, and learning to identify the sound is deadly important.

The immediate dangers to you are...
1. Teenage drivers
2. Senior drivers
3. Texting/Cellphone drivers
3. Potholes
4. Q-line rail
5. Pedestrians on the bike lane.

By the way, Detroit now offers all major sports in the Downtown area. I think that its the only one in the country to do so. Soccer I hear is next.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-12-18 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 02-12-18, 12:13 PM
  #50  
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... Suggested Tips for safe riding in Detroit as quoted above:
Stay within the Downtown areas, stay at least 25 feet from anyone who might be packing, as well avoiding groups of 2 or more teenagers with baggy clothing and or hoodies; also avoid:
1. Teenage drivers
2. Senior drivers
3. Texting/Cellphone drivers
3. Potholes
4. Q-line rail
5. Pedestrians on the bike lane.

Sounds like the way to be "be cool" while riding
in Detroit is to only ride around around the block if you live on a quiet street in a gentrified neighborhood or in a car free zone in the Downtown area.
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