RRs

I bought a L - 19.5 Roscoe 7 but after messing with a few components I think the frame is too small. I'm 6' and my inseam is 33.5" (using a book, barefoot to crotch).

When I bought it several months ago, I haven't ridden since 6th grade so to me nothing felt right and I left it up to my LBS to fit me. So far to get it fit somewhat comfortably I've had to use a 410mm setback seatpost and a 2" riser bar with a 60mm / + 6° stem.

With my seat as far back as it can go my knee still isn't directly over the pedal spindle and there's about 9 1/2" - 10" of seat post showing (top of seat tube to seat rails) and because I'm having to raise my seat so high my riser bars are too low.

Should I have went with a XL - 21 frame??











EDIT: Also after reading some more threads I wanted to mention that since day 1 I've had sore quads (and quad area muscles) and originally it was because I had my seat too low. It's gotten a lot better since I've raised my seat but I don't feel like I'm using another part of my leg IE: hamstring, calves etc. The only muscle sore after a ride are my quads and quad muscles around the knee. Someone mentioned that when only your quads were sore, taht was a sign of your knee being too far forward and if you have to have your seat back as far as it can go that means your frame is too small.

Is that true?

RRs

Bump...added pics.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yeah, wow. Looks much too small to me.

fietsbob

You riding really gnarly single track ??

I'd have your next bike bought in a bike shop and test ride several sizes, there..

RRs

I was afraid of that.


Nothing really technical. Just hard pack dirt, sand and roots...typical Florida.

And I did buy it from a bike shop, they fit me on the L frame. I bought it right when the Roscoe just came out so they didn't have any other sizes. I honestly didn't know what felt good because I haven't been on a bike in so long, every bike felt uncomfortable to me. I would try and do an even swap a larger frame but I don't think that will fit my knee any better and I've swapped some parts on it, so it's no longer stock.

The seat tube angle on the Roscoe 7 is 71°, so is that too steep for me?

RRs

So tonight we took my bike to the shop and I told them my issues and asked if they could squeeze me in now on the trainer and just watch me since it wasn't busy and he said I needed to see a bike fitter. He gave me the name / company that he uses but the guy is book up until mid-May.

I asked why I'm feeling so much burning / soreness in my quads after biking but no other part of my legs and he said because I didn't use clipons that I was only pushing on the pedals and quads do that and I wasn't pulling up IE: hamstring. Whether it's correct or not, I don't know but it made perfect sense to me.

Would my knee being too far forward compared to the pedal cause my quads to burn or is this normal and I just deal with it? Even if I take 2 days off of riding my quads still burn when I stretch or flex the muscle.

Carbonfiberboy 

Clipless pedals and shoes will help. Being too far forward on the bike will hurt. You're out of shape. A little pain is OK, but don't push it. Don't ride hard when your legs hurt. Try 1/2 hour easy spins in a low gear to get them used to pedaling.

RRs

I get that but my quads shouldn't be hurting 3 months later just like the did the first week I started riding.

I started out for 3 weeks riding about 4-6 miles a day, now I ride between 10-12 miles a day sometimes more with my kids, maybe another 3-4 miles but I'm mainly coasting so I don't really count that. My cadence is between 80-90 when I'm solo. If I go more than 12 miles the next day my knees are a little tender and my quads are really sore so that's my limit and that's why I'm wondering if my knee being too far forward is causing this.

From what I've read the more in front of the pedal axle you are the more you work your quads. I could be putting stress on my quads for no reason and moving my seat back another 1-2" could help or even moving a little in back of the pedal axle could help and I could be doing closer to 15-20 miles without any issues....I don't know because I'm locked in to this position and can't try different positions.

I just don't understand how to get my seat further back. I already have a setback seat post and my seat is as far back as it can go. My seat tube angle is 71°, so that's pretty laxed compared to others which are 73-74°. If I went to a XL frame would that help me get above and or behind the pedal axle? I'm thinking it will just stretch my torso out by having a longer top tube but I would be in the same position knee wise, so I'm at a loss!??

Carbonfiberboy 

My guess is that your quad problem is not your fit. Maybe you aren't getting enough protein? Are you dieting? Try cutting back the riding to every other day. Give 'em some rest. IME it's protein though.

fietsbob

Maybe you local bike shop takes trade ins?

RRs

Protein isn't my problem. I weight 230ish and I'm eating 130-150g per day. No diet, just cut out the junk and snacks and watching my calories. I'm using an app to track my meals and my protein varies from 25% (124.6g) to 41% (156.1g), so I'm well above my intake needs.


They do but after talking with them yesterday, I don't know how I feel about them.

I just don't know what to look for in a frame. Everyone on sites said the most critical thing to look for in a frame is the top tube. I'm ok with my top tube, I probably have another 2" before I'm pressed on the tube, so I could've really with an XL frame. The seat tube angle is 71°, so do I need to find something with a lower seat angle so I can be further back?? If so that's hard to do, most I found were higher than 71.

Many on forums have said on a well fitting frame your seat should be in the center of the rails and you should only need to move it back / forward a bit to fine tune your knee placement. Having my seat set all the way back on the rails with a setback seat post and my knees still 2"+ in front of the pedal spindle doesn't sound like this frame fits.

Below are my Roscoe specs. If I were to look for another frame, what do I need to look for in a frame so that I can be able to adjust my seat / knee properly?

Carbonfiberboy 

I don't know enough about MTB fitting, so I'll pass on that. OK, good on protein. Along with resting more, simply don't ride if your legs are really sore. The soreness comes from torn muscle fibers in your legs. Exercising with torn legs only makes them worse. A little soreness is OK, but you should never have leg pain on the bike. If you do, ride back home, easy.

Another thing you can do is stretch every morning. My stretches are here: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...l#post15372967
Don't overdo it! Just stretch until it pulls, don't force it to the point of pain.

Another thing is to do bodyweight squats after the stretches. With a chair behind you, squat until your butt hits the chair, and go back up. Do 15 reps. If that feels OK, do 3 sets. If that feels OK, there's a really good tutorial on bodyweight squats here: 3 sets of 10 full squats is nice to do if you can. Might help fix the sore legs in a couple weeks and combined with the stretches, should fix the sore knees, too.

Brian25

Hi, I was a bike store owner for over 12 years (Trek dealer for over seven) I see two things here: 1) your seat height is really kind of maxed out. It looks like you you have really limited ability to heel down while pedaling. We are talking mountain biking here, for off road control ability, mountain bikers generally ride with there seats a little bit on the low side. 2). Generally whenever someone said that they were 6' tall, I always ended up steering them to a bike with at least a 19.5 - 20" seat tube. An 18" seems to be better for the 5'-9' - 10" riders. The hint here is when you start talking about an extra long 400 seat post with easily over a foot of seat/ post sticking out of the frame, the problem also can arise (eventually) that, like a pry bar, your seatpost/ seat are leveraging the seat collar/ cluster area of the frame. Could eventually lead to frame failure.

Brian25

Hi, One hing that really irks me about the way that the guy really kind of blew you off with the... well we are booked up till mid May to have a look at you. (basically, just trying to get rid of you) Sorry, but I guess that I am honest, and I hate to see a guy at a Trek dealership acting so unprofessional/ really kind of shifty/ downright dishonest. Be a man about it, fess up dude, you sold the guy the wrong size bike!

Bmach

RRs

I was thinking the same thing, especially since it's 71deg.

So I found a 21" frame at the same dealer but in a different city. I'm going to look at it shortly. After looking at the specs and looking at my position I'm sort of thinking I may fit better on a 23 frame. Unfortunately NO Trek dealer in my area has a 23 frame and only one has a 21 frame.

I think I need to be stretched out more and I don't think a effective top tube difference of .83" is going to make a difference (19.5 vs 21). And with the head tube taller on the 21 I will be even more in an upright position. The head tube is the same height on the 23 but the effective top tube is a good bit longer.

What do yall think;

Current frame 19.5:
Seat Tube: 18.5"
Effective Top Tube: 25.11"
Heat Tube Length: 3.93"

21:
Seat Tube: 20.5"
Effective Top Tube: 25.94"
Head Tube Length: 4.72"

23:
Seat Tube: 22"
Effective Top Tube: 26.50"
Head Tube Length: 4.72"

Brian25

Hi,
I would advise against the 22/ 23" frame. (too big). That size would be much closer to a road frame size for you. The whole premise about mountain bikes is to have a bike that is super easy to bail out off of when you end up over your head when mountain biking, so you should be on the smallest that you can ride, but in my opinion your current bike crosses the line. (too small). To get more reach. I would definately try out some longer stems, and more upright if necessary. (Stems come in all sorts of lengths/ rises.) I would highly recommend that you measure how high your current handlebars are and how far from the seat, so that you know how much longer/ higher you are progressing as you try out different stems. When I had bike stores, I used to carry about 50 different stems, so when someone wanted a position change, I could help them.

RRs

I'm not do any hard trails. I bought this bike to ride around the neighborhood with my wife and kids and hit the trails a bit with my wife. The trails we go to are flat dirt trails, with a little sand and very rooty. There are trails with jumps etc. but we're not doing those.

I went to my LBS and test rode a 21" frame with a bike with similar geometry and it felt a lot better. So my shop is going to pick up the 21 frame from their other location and swap all my components over to the new frame. They said I should have it early next week...I can't wait.

I'll update this thread. Thanks for the help everyone!!

Oneder

Your frame is unbelievably tiny basically. And your seat post is almost as tall as your frame tube. You are practically standing right over your pedals. Basically everything is about as wrong as it gets. This is like some kind of circus bike or something.

You need to push that seat way back and lower it some. In other words you basically need a new frame unless you want to mess around with special components like crazy. Get something that is 20 inch frame, maybe even 22 inches. How far forward the pedals are is kind of personal but for me it's usually something closer to 45 degree angle from your butt to your pedals, maybe even more forward than that if you like to sit low. You have like a 15-25 degree angle right now. If I saw you pedaling down the street I would do a double take. That bike shop is pretty ridiculous, have no idea why they would do this to you.

RRs

I'm still waiting to test out the 21.5 frame. They said it should be in by Friday so we'll see.

I wish they had a 23" frame to test. Someone else recommended a 22" frame after seeing my pic and a 23" virtual would be a 22" actual.

RRs

Still can't get a definitive day when the 21.5 is going to be in so I test rode the Marlin again and I really like the fit of the 21.5.

With that said, the 21.5 Marlin in some aspects fits larger than the Roscoe 21.5 so I'm thinking of going with the 23 in the Roscoe. The reach on the Marlin is greater than the reach on the 21.5 Roscoe and I didn't feel stretched out what so ever so would going less than half an inch more on the 23 Roscoe really make a difference where I would feel too stretched out?

Since I like how the fit was on the Marlin 21.5, is it's effective top tube, standover and frame reach the 3 most critical things to look at when comparing to other frames to see if they fit similar?

______________Marlin 21.5____Roscoe 21.5_______23
ETT:__________25.94_______________25.95______26.50
Standover:_____32.48_______________29.65______30.51
Frame Reach:___18.03_______________17.83______18.43