Racing Dan

Im sure there is a reason enclosed MC chains last many times longer than open drives and Im sure there is a reason gearbox oil is continually filtered. But yeah, the actual data seem absent. Maybe the reality of it is that contamination of an open chain drive happens so fast you need to be absolutely anal about it, to see any significant advantages. Also the correct lube and no/minimal cleaning lube may work better than frequent cleaning and the incorrect lube.

FlashBazbo

Be sure to follow the Rock 'n Roll instructions to the letter. You'll use a lot of it. It's messier to apply than most (because you're also using it to flush out the chain). But again, it lasts a long time. Good stuff.


[Edit: With Rock 'n Roll, it's definitely better if the chain hasn't been lubed using another product before.]

Racing Dan

You can achieve about the same thing if you dissolve a really thick oil in 4:1 petrol or some other volatile solvent. 1 Part Phils or FL green and 4 parts petrol comes to mind (or there about).

Or. How about spraying the chain with brake parts cleaner and wiping it, before lubing?

SethAZ 

Yeah, I've gotten iron particles out of dirt before with magnets like that too. I'm pretty sure that the gunk on the magnet in the photos in the OP is at least mostly not just picked up from dirt on the road, though. This is because there is a smaller, dime-sized rare earth magnet stuck to the end of my left crank (actually stuck to the end of the pedal spindle) to activate my cadence sensor with each pedal stroke. When I removed the magnet from the pedals on my old bike to put them on the Lynskey there was a small quantity of this environmental iron stuck to that magnet, but just a little, and it had had thousands of miles to collect there.

Given that chains that are poorly treated can still last thousands of miles, it shouldn't be surprising that there's not good, controlled data. When one iteration of an experiment takes time measured in large fractions of, if not whole years, we're just not going to see much. Since I'm starting with brand new components and going to rotate between two brand new, high quality chains, in theory I could get some interesting data if I treated one chain like a queen with regular deep cleans, diligent usage of high quality lube, etc., while leaving the other chain all filthy and just add some new lube from time to time, and see which one wears out first. I don't care enough about finding out if I'm right or wrong in this, though, to be willing to subject my new bike components to that.

rumrunn6

I really need to clean me some chains. I have 3 bikes that I rotate thru plus there's the 3 the kids & Wifey use. next warm Saturday, I shud do 6 bikes ... hmmm

Colnago Mixte

Removing a filthy greasy chain and soaking it in solvent, while it might be unpleasant, is still a lot more enjoyable than getting nagged to death by a wife or gf. Give me a filthy chain any day over that, give me a whole freaking pile of them!

rumrunn6

maybe if you chose between the two you'd have less nagging?

PaulRivers

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I've seen these things before, half the time they seem logical, then later someone actually tests it out and finds that it actually hurts the lifespan of the thing you're cleaning.

Spiduhman

The "wick" of gunk in the chain may actually be beneficial - like a felt pad for a sintered "bearing" (bushing) soaks up the oil and thereby does its bit to keep the bushing lubed.

That said, I got two jars (plastic) for rinse one an' two, as well as settling jars for each, plus the settling settling jar - where the crud accumulates - which sports a puck o' muck over two inches thick ('bout fifteen years worth).

It's a habit - shakes, pours, blows only takes a few minutes - and I run four chains in rotation, replacing cassette, rings, and chains all together when it's all done.

My contribution, fwiw, blow out the chains with compressed air and then wipe with a terrycloth rag.

Fwiw II, ~50/50 odorless mineral spirits and semi-synthetic multi-weight hypoid gear oil for lube beats the snot out of anything else (I've tried) and way cheaper. Lately I've added a squirt of Teflon'd juice in thar.

Bah Humbug

Having read through this entire thread on a quiet Black Friday, this strikes me as very much like those over on car forums insisting on installing bypass filters and running lab analysis on their engine oil. It may (probably does) provide some benefit, but most cars don't have the engine succumb to wear before the rest of the car is dead. For bicycle chains, how much life is added through meticulous care? Much as with tires, people have different budgets and risk appetites for how much wear they'll tolerate and how much time and effort they'll go to to get a few hundred extra miles from the chain (maybe) vs just putting another one on after every winter anyway.

And as pointed out, anecdote is not data, and we have no data on how much life is added by this compared to just squirting some lube in and wiping it down. It might double the life, it might add ten percent, or it might make it reduce the life by dissolving the internal lube and not being adequately replaced. We just don't know, and until we know, I'm much too lazy to go to this effort to save a few bucks a year.

Bob Ross

This is the 41; if you're no longer a dick here, it means the terrorists have won.

Bah Humbug

Wait, doesn't that mean you replace your rings WAY more frequently than they need it? They last way longer than a cassette normally, and would think they would benefit from better lube just as much as the chain and cassette.

Spiduhman

"Wait, doesn't that mean you replace your rings WAY more frequently than they need it? They last way longer than a cassette normally, and would think they would benefit from better lube just as much as the chain and cassette."

Perhaps? Maybe the rings are supposed to last longer... the cassette is chrome plated steel, which wears great until the chrome wears away. The rings are anodized alloy, an' there's just the two of them - the big one gets most o' the punishment where I live.

Any road, when I'm ready to replace the cassette, the chains are significantly "stretched" - too worn to be put into service with a brand new cassette, and the big ring is all sharked toothed out - not unusable, no, but way worn. The bike shop mech comes right over to see about a drive train replacement job - from across the shop. The whole caboodle goes in the bike mobile bin (was planning on making a mobile - "a decorative structure that is suspended so as to turn freely in the air." some day...)

Spiduhman

Still ridin' your S1 Hum?
My Soloist cracked after a five years; Cervelo kindly replaced with a brand new 2015 S2

mercator

Whenever I get the urge to start cleaning chains, I always refer to this Sheldon Brown link and I (usually) come to my senses.

gif4445

To each his/her own. I am more into riding than maintenance. I'm a farmer by trade and spend a lot (or so it seems) of my time maintaining and repairing farm implements and machinery. So I would give the LBS a fair portion of my business, with the excuse that I was 1)helping them stay in business and 2)putting more recreation and less work in the sport. But finally, I decided I needed to do a better job. Part ego and part practical, as I do a little touring and need to be able to take care of the bike on the road. As I near semi-retirement age, I can see myself pouring more and more time into the wrenching , building and maintenance end.

Bah Humbug

"Riding". I have almost fifty hours on the trainer since summer. That's after almost three years of nothing. Real rides will start whenever the weather is nice from mid-December.

I keep crossing my fingers for that crack, but no dice so far. Probably is a matter of not riding it enough. With my luck mine will be the last pristine S1 in the world.

bobwysiwyg

First time I read that, I couldn't stop laughing.

Wheever

You guys keep talking about chain wear. The reason I use the OMS bath method is because it keeps my chain smooth and silent...which makes me really happy for some reason. (But I am one of those artsy types, so probably it's just a sensual pleasure.)

Anyway, I recommend it if silent drive trains make you happy. Also Rock-And-Roll red if you don't ride out in the rain much. Supah smoove.

FlashBazbo

There is no higher authority than Sheldon Brown. (Maybe the OP is one of Sheldon's progeny under an assumed name?)

SethAZ 

I am posting this in case anyone is interested in a followup result to the OP. If you don't care about how much ferrous debris material was flushed out of the chain after an additional 350 miles, or you think the whole topic is stupid, or a waste of time, then feel free to skip this and keep your opinions to yourself. Unless they're clever, of course. I'll take a witty put-down, as long as it's funnier than a placebo.

I personally find such things interesting, whether or not everyone, or even anyone else does as well.

*****************

When I posted the initial photos of the magnet covered in ferrous debris after riding a brand new Dura Ace chain 150 miles with the factory lube still on the chain, on brand new chainrings and cassette, in my mind I allowed that the amount of ferrous debris attracted to the magnet might just be because the chain was brand new and hadn't broken in yet, or the factory lube just isn't very effective or whatever.

A couple days ago I removed the chain, with just over 500 miles on it now, in order to swap on my B chain, another brand new Dura Ace chain. The intent is to alternate between these two chains every 500 miles or so in order to slow the wearing of the chainrings and cassette by giving them twice as many miles before they're ever ridden with any chain that has worn to its replacement limit.

So, the A chain had a little over 350 miles on it since it was thoroughly cleaned. I'd relubed it with the Silca version of NFS lube very thoroughly. It ran silently and very smoothly and well. I wiped it down with a rag a couple of times during this period, including a pretty aggressive wipe-down right before dropping it into the little bucket of mineral spirits.

After cleaning the chain again I pulled the chain out and then dipped my high-powered rare earth magnet into the mineral spirits and swished it around to pick up all of the ferrous debris. I let the mineral spirits dry, and took this quick snap of all the ferrous debris stuck to the magnet.

This is how much steel wear particles were flushed out of the insides of the chain after only 350 miles of well-lubed wear. I have no idea how much debris I wiped off the external surfaces of the chain, but the rag had the conventional black oil stains on it, so probably a substantial amount.

GuitarBob

I'm interested, so thanks -- from a guy with a bit of OCD himself

shafter

A fascinating experiment. I would be inlined to weigh the chain and shavings. Then you could set up a %loss per mile rating.

SethAZ 

Hmm. I didn't think I have a scale sensitive enough, but I do have a digital reloading scale that can measure down to a tenth of a grain (a tenth of 1/7000th of a lb). I think it would be more accurate to weigh the magnet with the debris still stuck to it, then clean the debris off and weight the magnet by itself. The debris actually takes some doing to get it all off the magnet, because it's a rare earth magnet and the stuff sticks onto it pretty hard. I end up having to pinch it off with a rag.

SethAZ 

I'm actually kind of exactly opposite of OCD, which you'd quickly recognize if you ever saw my mancave or the garage and how messy and disorganized they are. I just get really curious sometimes and like to see how things work. The first time I noticed that the gunk I was dissolving off my chains actually had a fair bit of ferrous material in it that could be collected on a magnet, I really wanted to see how much of this stuff was inside my chain during use. Now I know. Quite a bit, really.