CriticalThought

Had my eyes peeled for a Wrights saddle ever since I missed out on a fantastic one in a Glasgow charity shop a couple of years ago. Just picked one up locally in Colorado and it came attached to a real time capsule of a Raleigh Grand Prix.

I know very little about Raleighs and would love any info anyone can provide on this one. From what I can tell, it looks like it may be one of the first Grand Prix made in 1968 or 1969 by in the Carlton plant in Worksop?

The seller told me that to his knowledge it was original.

It has a Wrights W3N saddle, Huret Allvit mech (with lovely long shift levers), Sturmey Archer rims, Normandy hubs, GB stem, "TRU-WEL" 205 High Tensile Precision ERW Steel Tubes (weighs a bloody ton!) interesting TI branded decal which I think may be Raleigh Carlton specific?, white Milremo bar plugs, and the other Carlton accoutrements, red "C" branded hub bolts, decals on the forks and on the down-tube between the shifters, and absolutely mint white Carlton brake hoods. Even the cables all look original.

Serial number is 309278.

I will post more photos when I can. Curious to hear what anyone can tell me about my estimate on it's date of manufacture (or anything else about it!).

Thanks!

clubman 

69 to 71 was a time when Raleigh used Huret before switching to Simplex. Raleigh serial numbers are tough, if not impossible to decipher in this period so sure, it could be one of the first, or first half million. Lower that stem!

bikemig 

Nice find. What are your plans for the bike? Or were you just lusting after the saddle?

Slowride79

Kurt’s site is invaluable for such questions.
https://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_ralei...als.html#mid60
Based on this ‘72?
Nice bike!

nlerner

I’m fairly sure that color wasn’t listed in the catalogs until 1971-72.

randyjawa 

My next project is this late sixties Carlton "Grand Prix" rebadged, by Raleigh, as a Raleigh...




In a previous BF thread, other Bike Forum members informed me that this was done for sale to the North American market during Bike Boom days, when the demand for bicycles skyrocketed...

CriticalThought

clubman bikemig Slowride79 nlerner randyjawa Thanks for taking the time to reply.

You know, I love the mystery around trying to pin down details on these old bikes. I always learn a lot.

I don't really have any emotional investment (or financial given it cost me less than I had budgeted for the saddle alone). So I'm not sure what I'll end up doing with it.

It's nice to have a pre-Simplex Raleigh, and I haven't ever worked on or set up a Huret Allvit driveline, so I'm looking forward to that (and the Huret gear also makes me think it's 71 or earlier, though you never know).

It is always so rewarding to find bikes that are so old and yet so original. I'll probably take it to bits and clean and polish and lube and adjust everything and then take it for a ride with some new tires.

I have no doubt that it will look spectacular when that much is done. I might even replace the Carlton decals. It's a little small for me though so I doubt I'll hang on to it. The question is do I part it out (keeping the bits I need or trading some).... or alternatively will I feel reluctant to "destroy" something so original? Time will tell. It doesn't feel special enough at this point to make me want to keep it together for it's own sake.

There was nothing concrete enough to date it in all of the online resources I saw... color, serial number, etc. The "Carlton-ness" of it along with the original Huret Allvit gear is what makes me think it's somewhere in the 1968-1971 range, but I haven't seen anything to pin that down further (and I have seen a few things that make that guess suspect).

For now I'm just looking forward to seeing it all cleaned up and riding it a bit! Now I have a "not very Lenton" Raleigh Lenton Sports and a "not very Carlton" Carlton made Raleigh Grand Prix. I feel like I need a third "not very Raleigh" to round out this motley crew! Any suggestions? This and my Carlton-made Raleigh Competition along with my Carlton-made Raleigh Super Course do make me want a "real" 531 Carlton of some sort though.

A couple more pics for kicks...

bikemig 

If the bike is too small, you might want to sell it here in the C&V For Sale forum. You will have to pay to join but that way you don't get ads and it's cheap. Or you can sell it locally obviously or eBay. But I wouldn't do anything but remove the saddle. The parts on that bike are not that valuable in and of themselves but they do add value to that frame. It's not worth a lot of money but someone will want it because it is old and complete.

John E

I hated the Huret Allvit cable-snapping derailleurs on my 1962 Bianchi, and I remember seeing Raleighs with the elongated shift levers, whose increased leverage probably made cable breakage even more frequent. (Yes, I have snapped an occasional shift cable on a SunTour or a Campag. derailleur, but it happens far less frequently.)

CriticalThought

Yep, I recall reading somewhere (and it makes sense) that the reason for the elongated levers was that the design of the Allvit requires a lot more force. It's one of the reasons I'm curious to experience it myself once properly set up.

And bikemig , I know what you mean about someone valuing it just because it's original. I'm typically not one to break up something like this. Who knows, maybe I'll really like it once it's all cleaned up and dial-ed in... or maybe I'll be able to sell it for enough to get something more my style.

obuckler

Thoroughly enjoyed viewing this bike. I have the exact same frame/paint/decal scheme. I am the original owner purchasing it in 1972 as my first ten speed. I was officially a bike boomer back then. Many fond memories of rides out in the country.

A note comparing serial numbers: Yours is 308278. Mine is 246172. I think we follow the same serial numbering convention as laid out here on The Headbadge site:

https://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_ralei...als.html#mid60

My build differs from yours as i have Simplex Prestige RD, FD, and downtube shifters. Also have a gorgeous Milremo stem.

The bike exists now as a single speed. Still enjoying its very smooth ride and of course it lost several pounds of weight which makes it feel very fast. (Note I said “feel”)!

b dub 

These levers are massive. Never seen them before. I love them for it’s oddity. I wonder if modern stronger cables solve the issue.

CriticalThought

Thanks obuckler Lovely photo and your Grand Prix looks spectacular with that stem. Appreciate the serial number comparison as well. Maybe mine is a 71 or later. If you have any other photos of your I would love to see them! Even just seeing the one you shared really motivates me to clean this one up before making any decisions on it's fate! Thanks!

obuckler

If your serial is higher I would think it would make it same or later year as mine. Of course I only know I bought it in 72. Don’t know for sure of build date.

In catalogs I have seen the decals changed in 73. So doubt anything later than 72. Mine could be earlier.

For more pics easiest to share my original thread on the bike. The end shows the built photos.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...rand-prix.html

b dub 

Very inspiring to read the progress and final outcome of your Raleigh GP. It looks stunning.

CriticalThought

Thanks for sharing that link to your restoration obuckler ! Fantastic job and very inspiring. I can't wait to get started on mine!