Bianchi Special by Columbus
11-01-16, 04:55 AM
#1
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Bianchi Special by Columbus
Does anyone know the makeup of this tube set? I bought a Mondiale/Campione from a member here and the shop that sold the NOS frame to him in 2007 told him it was SL/SP. It was number 2 or 3 in the lineup after the Super Leggera (at least according to the Japanese catalog).
11-01-16, 07:35 AM
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Columbus Special appears to have been spec'd only for 1985. However, with the exception of the top of the line Centenario, it was spec'd on six different models. That's quite a lot, and in 1986 this same range was covered by three tubesets (Columbus SL/SP, Bianchi Formula I and Bianchi Formula II). This raises the possibility that here may have been multiple versions of 1985 Bianchi Special.
The label does indicate that the tubing is butted and of CrMo alloy. At this time, Columbus' only tubesets in this combination were SL, SP and KL (SPX/SPX was considered superbutted and was spec'd on the Centenario). KL was very thin, for special purpose, such as mountain stages and time trials. That leaves SL and SP, unless Bianchi was working with Columbus on what would become Matrix (and eventually Cromor) and had a a one year exclusive, which they disguised under the Bianchi Special name.
Still, the fact the 1986 Mondiale/Giro was spec'd with Columbus SL/SP suggests that the 1985 Mondiale/Camapione version is Columbus SL/SP equivalent. To increase your confidence you could verify that it has a 27.2mm seat post and five helical ridges inside the bottom of the steerer tube. Both are indicative of SL. Note, that the down tube and chain stays would be SP per Bianchi's Superset design, to stiffen the BB region.
The label does indicate that the tubing is butted and of CrMo alloy. At this time, Columbus' only tubesets in this combination were SL, SP and KL (SPX/SPX was considered superbutted and was spec'd on the Centenario). KL was very thin, for special purpose, such as mountain stages and time trials. That leaves SL and SP, unless Bianchi was working with Columbus on what would become Matrix (and eventually Cromor) and had a a one year exclusive, which they disguised under the Bianchi Special name.
Still, the fact the 1986 Mondiale/Giro was spec'd with Columbus SL/SP suggests that the 1985 Mondiale/Camapione version is Columbus SL/SP equivalent. To increase your confidence you could verify that it has a 27.2mm seat post and five helical ridges inside the bottom of the steerer tube. Both are indicative of SL. Note, that the down tube and chain stays would be SP per Bianchi's Superset design, to stiffen the BB region.
11-01-16, 12:41 PM
#3
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Columbus Special appears to have been spec'd only for 1985. However, with the exception of the top of the line Centenario, it was spec'd on six different models. That's quite a lot, and in 1986 this same range was covered by three tubesets (Columbus SL/SP, Bianchi Formula I and Bianchi Formula II). This raises the possibility that here may have been multiple versions of 1985 Bianchi Special.
The label does indicate that the tubing is butted and of CrMo alloy. At this time, Columbus' only tubesets in this combination were SL, SP and KL (SPX/SPX was considered superbutted and was spec'd on the Centenario). KL was very thin, for special purpose, such as mountain stages and time trials. That leaves SL and SP, unless Bianchi was working with Columbus on what would become Matrix (and eventually Cromor) and had a a one year exclusive, which they disguised under the Bianchi Special name.
Still, the fact the 1986 Mondiale/Giro was spec'd with Columbus SL/SP suggests that the 1985 Mondiale/Camapione version is Columbus SL/SP equivalent. To increase your confidence you could verify that it has a 27.2mm seat post and five helical ridges inside the bottom of the steerer tube. Both are indicative of SL. Note, that the down tube and chain stays would be SP per Bianchi's Superset design, to stiffen the BB region.
The label does indicate that the tubing is butted and of CrMo alloy. At this time, Columbus' only tubesets in this combination were SL, SP and KL (SPX/SPX was considered superbutted and was spec'd on the Centenario). KL was very thin, for special purpose, such as mountain stages and time trials. That leaves SL and SP, unless Bianchi was working with Columbus on what would become Matrix (and eventually Cromor) and had a a one year exclusive, which they disguised under the Bianchi Special name.
Still, the fact the 1986 Mondiale/Giro was spec'd with Columbus SL/SP suggests that the 1985 Mondiale/Camapione version is Columbus SL/SP equivalent. To increase your confidence you could verify that it has a 27.2mm seat post and five helical ridges inside the bottom of the steerer tube. Both are indicative of SL. Note, that the down tube and chain stays would be SP per Bianchi's Superset design, to stiffen the BB region.
I should have also mentioned that the frame has 27.2 seat post, Campy dropouts, and is fully chrome under the paint.
11-01-16, 07:32 PM
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I have a contact at Bianchi USA I write occasionally, and he told me a year or two ago that the exact composition of the three tubes sets is lost to history. Perhaps in Italy there might be some info somewhere but who knows.
I do know I enjoyed the way my Formula 2 frame rode.
I do know I enjoyed the way my Formula 2 frame rode.
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11-01-16, 07:53 PM
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So the 27.2 seatpost means it's not just another labeling of their Tenax, right? I've heard that in some years/models Tenax was SL/SP and others it was seamed, butted tubing (similar to Chromor) based on what was available at the time.
11-02-16, 02:13 AM
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As @Bianchigirll noted, the exact composition of Columbus Bianchi Special, Bianchi Formula 1 and Bianchi Formula 2 may remain shrouded in mystery!
About the only way to find out what kind of tubing they used would be to dissect frames made of those tubes.
You would need to measure the wall thicknesses of all of the tubing including both the butted and non-butted sections of the 3 main tubes.
Samples would need to be sent to a metallurgical lab to determine that the tubing is indeed 4130 chrome molybdenum steel. That's the steel that Columbus used in their SL/SP/SLX/SPX/TSX/PS/PL/KL and RECORD tubing.
In a marketing move in the early 80's, Columbus started calling it CYCLEX steel instead of Cr-Mo steel.
@T-Mar "To increase your confidence you could verify that it has a 27.2mm seat post and five helical ridges inside the bottom of the steerer tube. Both are indicative of SL."
Indeed, a 27.2mm seatpost is used in a 1 1/8" seat tube with a 0.6mm wall thickness at the top like SL tubing.
Columbus used the "riffled"steering tubes with all of their SL/SP/SLX/SPX/TSX/PS tube sets. Also in all of the later tube sets from the 1980's except Aelle and Gara. The part number for the Cr-Mo steerers was 501. They were made in 25.4mm x 1.65mm/2.5mm in 180mm, 200mm, 220mm and 250mm lengths.
I had a 1960 Legnano Roma Olimpiade made of Columbus SP. It had a riffled steerer. Italian made Falck tubing, French Super Vitus, Tange and other tube manufacturers started producing riffled steerers too.
BTW, every REAL Campagnolo gruppo used to come with a set of dropouts and a Columbus steerer!
I started riding with the local CR group. Many of them had Bianchis. In a fit of Celeste envy, I bought a like new 56cm 1987 Bianchi Giro with a Columbus Bianchi Formula 2 frame and Campy Victory gruppo. It has a 27.2mm seatpost so the seat tube is either SL or Cromor tubing???
After overhauling all the bearings, cleaning and adjusting everything, I took it out for a first ride. The frame fits me perfect and handles beautifully but the bike rides like a truck! It had old Specialized Armadillo tires which rode like solid rubber!
Even after switching to soft riding Panaracer Pasela tires it's still a 25 1/2 lb. tank!
I picked up a 56cm NOS 1990 Bianchi Mondiale KOF frame at the end of 2010. It had been sitting in a box at a LBS for 20 years. It was made of SLX tubing.
It has the same geometry as my 1987 Giro. I was under the impression that Columbus SLX was a lighter version of SL, silly me! I took to a frame builder friend's shop and checked the alignment. When I told him that I bought it to get a smoother ride than the Giro, he said "It's going to be stiff"! It is... But it climbs great and the fit and handling are GREAT!.
I have another Bianchi that's a Goldilocks bike! A 55cm 1981 Campione Del Mondo with a Columbus Tretubi frame. Tretubi tubing is another one of the Columbus/Bianchi mysteries. In my case I was able to find that the 3 main tubes are Columbus with Aelle forks and stays. It's one of my top 10 favorite riding and handling bikes!
In an early 80's Columbus spec sheet Cromor is listed as being made of "cold drawn chrome-moly steel butted tubing" - but not "Cyclex" like SL, SP etc.
Gara tubing is also listed as being made of chrome-moly steel but unlike Cromor, the main tubes are straight gage and the set weighed 2300g vs. 2190g for Cromor and 1925g for SL.
Aelle was made of a lower strength maganese alloy steel about 2/3 to 3/4 the strength of 4130 cro-moly Cylex steel. Aelle was originally made straight gage then later had butted main tubes. It was also sold as Aelle Tretubi for lower mid range priced bikes with mystery forks and stays.
verktyg
Chas.
About the only way to find out what kind of tubing they used would be to dissect frames made of those tubes.
You would need to measure the wall thicknesses of all of the tubing including both the butted and non-butted sections of the 3 main tubes.
Samples would need to be sent to a metallurgical lab to determine that the tubing is indeed 4130 chrome molybdenum steel. That's the steel that Columbus used in their SL/SP/SLX/SPX/TSX/PS/PL/KL and RECORD tubing.
In a marketing move in the early 80's, Columbus started calling it CYCLEX steel instead of Cr-Mo steel.
@T-Mar "To increase your confidence you could verify that it has a 27.2mm seat post and five helical ridges inside the bottom of the steerer tube. Both are indicative of SL."
Indeed, a 27.2mm seatpost is used in a 1 1/8" seat tube with a 0.6mm wall thickness at the top like SL tubing.
Columbus used the "riffled"steering tubes with all of their SL/SP/SLX/SPX/TSX/PS tube sets. Also in all of the later tube sets from the 1980's except Aelle and Gara. The part number for the Cr-Mo steerers was 501. They were made in 25.4mm x 1.65mm/2.5mm in 180mm, 200mm, 220mm and 250mm lengths.
I had a 1960 Legnano Roma Olimpiade made of Columbus SP. It had a riffled steerer. Italian made Falck tubing, French Super Vitus, Tange and other tube manufacturers started producing riffled steerers too.
BTW, every REAL Campagnolo gruppo used to come with a set of dropouts and a Columbus steerer!
I started riding with the local CR group. Many of them had Bianchis. In a fit of Celeste envy, I bought a like new 56cm 1987 Bianchi Giro with a Columbus Bianchi Formula 2 frame and Campy Victory gruppo. It has a 27.2mm seatpost so the seat tube is either SL or Cromor tubing???
After overhauling all the bearings, cleaning and adjusting everything, I took it out for a first ride. The frame fits me perfect and handles beautifully but the bike rides like a truck! It had old Specialized Armadillo tires which rode like solid rubber!
Even after switching to soft riding Panaracer Pasela tires it's still a 25 1/2 lb. tank!
I picked up a 56cm NOS 1990 Bianchi Mondiale KOF frame at the end of 2010. It had been sitting in a box at a LBS for 20 years. It was made of SLX tubing.
It has the same geometry as my 1987 Giro. I was under the impression that Columbus SLX was a lighter version of SL, silly me! I took to a frame builder friend's shop and checked the alignment. When I told him that I bought it to get a smoother ride than the Giro, he said "It's going to be stiff"! It is... But it climbs great and the fit and handling are GREAT!.
I have another Bianchi that's a Goldilocks bike! A 55cm 1981 Campione Del Mondo with a Columbus Tretubi frame. Tretubi tubing is another one of the Columbus/Bianchi mysteries. In my case I was able to find that the 3 main tubes are Columbus with Aelle forks and stays. It's one of my top 10 favorite riding and handling bikes!
In an early 80's Columbus spec sheet Cromor is listed as being made of "cold drawn chrome-moly steel butted tubing" - but not "Cyclex" like SL, SP etc.
Gara tubing is also listed as being made of chrome-moly steel but unlike Cromor, the main tubes are straight gage and the set weighed 2300g vs. 2190g for Cromor and 1925g for SL.
Aelle was made of a lower strength maganese alloy steel about 2/3 to 3/4 the strength of 4130 cro-moly Cylex steel. Aelle was originally made straight gage then later had butted main tubes. It was also sold as Aelle Tretubi for lower mid range priced bikes with mystery forks and stays.
verktyg
Chas.
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
11-02-16, 08:53 AM
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As @Bianchigirll noted, the exact composition of Columbus Bianchi Special, Bianchi Formula 1 and Bianchi Formula 2 may remain shrouded in mystery!
About the only way to find out what kind of tubing they used would be to dissect frames made of those tubes.
You would need to measure the wall thicknesses of all of the tubing including both the butted and non-butted sections of the 3 main tubes.
Samples would need to be sent to a metallurgical lab to determine that the tubing is indeed 4130 chrome molybdenum steel. That's the steel that Columbus used in their SL/SP/SLX/SPX/TSX/PS/PL/KL and RECORD tubing.
In a marketing move in the early 80's, Columbus started calling it CYCLEX steel instead of Cr-Mo steel....
About the only way to find out what kind of tubing they used would be to dissect frames made of those tubes.
You would need to measure the wall thicknesses of all of the tubing including both the butted and non-butted sections of the 3 main tubes.
Samples would need to be sent to a metallurgical lab to determine that the tubing is indeed 4130 chrome molybdenum steel. That's the steel that Columbus used in their SL/SP/SLX/SPX/TSX/PS/PL/KL and RECORD tubing.
In a marketing move in the early 80's, Columbus started calling it CYCLEX steel instead of Cr-Mo steel....
FYI, Columbus didn't start marketing their CrMo alloy as Cyclex until the very late 1980s, circa 1987-1988.
11-02-16, 05:34 PM
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This is from the '85 catalog.
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11-02-16, 05:51 PM
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Since all the experts are present:
I always wondered a bit about the tubes on a 1985(?) Bianchi Limited (Japan).
The fork was/is 022. I assumed 022 main triangle and something thicker on the rear.
edit: based on how well that Bianchi rode, I jumped for a winter project bike of Ishiwata 022.
I always wondered a bit about the tubes on a 1985(?) Bianchi Limited (Japan).
The fork was/is 022. I assumed 022 main triangle and something thicker on the rear.
edit: based on how well that Bianchi rode, I jumped for a winter project bike of Ishiwata 022.
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Last edited by Wildwood; 11-02-16 at 05:55 PM.
11-03-16, 03:01 AM
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It not as difficult and destructive as you describe. Non-destructive, ultrasonic thickness testers are available and the composition of the tubing is plainly stated on all 3 decals, so there is no need for alloy determination by a metallurgical lab.
FYI, Columbus didn't start marketing their CrMo alloy as Cyclex until the very late 1980s, circa 1987-1988.
FYI, Columbus didn't start marketing their CrMo alloy as Cyclex until the very late 1980s, circa 1987-1988.
Looking at them again, they all say "CHROMO MOLIBDENO" Chrome Molybdenum Steel.
On point 2, you're correct again about Ultrasonic Thickness Testers. A number of years ago I looked into Ultrasonic Testers. Back then the ones that were accurate were very expensive and lab quality.
The portable ones were just suitable for measuring coating thicknesses such as paint and plating.
Today quite a few companies produce those testers that sell for around $600+++ for one that can accurately measure substrate thicknesses.
Several sources.
Handheld Thickness Gages
PosiTector 6000 coating thickness gages, gauge, meter use magnetic and eddy current principles to measure coating thickness on both ferrous and non-ferrous metals.
A number of years ago a friend got together on a Sunday with several doctors who were cyclists and they snuck some top quality frames into a Marin hospital that had a large capacity x-ray machine. They were checking out wall thicknesses, tubing miters, brazes and so on. They found some interesting results....
verktyg
Chas.
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 11-03-16 at 03:10 AM.
11-03-16, 03:13 AM
#11
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11-03-16, 05:19 AM
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Since all the experts are present:
I always wondered a bit about the tubes on a 1985(?) Bianchi Limited (Japan).
The fork was/is 022. I assumed 022 main triangle and something thicker on the rear.
edit: based on how well that Bianchi rode, I jumped for a winter project bike of Ishiwata 022.
I always wondered a bit about the tubes on a 1985(?) Bianchi Limited (Japan).
The fork was/is 022. I assumed 022 main triangle and something thicker on the rear.
edit: based on how well that Bianchi rode, I jumped for a winter project bike of Ishiwata 022.
Last edited by T-Mar; 11-03-16 at 05:24 AM.
11-03-16, 09:51 PM
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Yes, I believe that's Superset frame, as the decal states mixed gauge. Also, it is pre-1985, as the 1985 Limited was the Bianchi Special tubeset that is the subject of this thread. Bianchi introduced their Superset configuration for 1984, with a heavier gauge down tube and chain stays. An Ishiwata 022 Superset would likely have used an 024 down tube paired with 0245 chain stays. The reason it would not have used 024 chain stays is because they were the same gauge as the 024 set. The main tubes, seat stays and fork braldes were 022. If you post your serial number, I should be able to tell you the date of your Limited and confirm if it is a Superset configuration.
New owner = @Lascauxcaveman can update with serial & new photos of a very good utilitarian frameset.
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Last edited by Wildwood; 11-03-16 at 09:58 PM.
11-03-16, 10:25 PM
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Yes, I believe that's Superset frame, as the decal states mixed gauge. Also, it is pre-1985, as the 1985 Limited was the Bianchi Special tubeset that is the subject of this thread. Bianchi introduced their Superset configuration for 1984, with a heavier gauge down tube and chain stays.
, I've never owned a Columbus Bianchi.
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04-26-17, 02:14 PM
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hello, I just noticed this thread while I was doing some research on Bianchi Columbus tubes. I'm interested because over the last year I have acquired and am regularly riding two 1980s Bianchi's. First I got an Electric Rose Trofeo which I assume is 1986 because it has Formula 1 labels. I loved the riding qualities of this bike so much I decided to get her a brother, and adopted a Celeste Campione, which I assume is 1985 because it has Bianchi Special tube labels.
Anyway, it appears nobody knows for sure the composition of these tubes. My only inputs is that they definitely have different riding characteristics, most notably the Campione is noticeable stiffer ride than the Trofeo (nearly identical frame size and same wheels). Seems there is general concensus that the Special tubing is the SL/SP super set. Bicycle Guide did a review of the 1985 Trofeo (presumable labeled with Special) and claimed that it was made of SL/SP superset. So it does make me wonder what exactly is in the Formula 1. I have to admit that for general riding I prefer the feel of the Trofeo over the Campione. Both as you would expect ride like classic steel bikes but the Trofeo has more of the "magic carpet ride" feel of just gliding over bumps in the road, yet it has a stiff BB.
Although they may have subtle geometry differences, I don't think that explains the difference is the ride, pretty sure it is the tubeset that I am feeling. The Trofeo/Formula1 just has a bit more spring to it.
Anyway, it appears nobody knows for sure the composition of these tubes. My only inputs is that they definitely have different riding characteristics, most notably the Campione is noticeable stiffer ride than the Trofeo (nearly identical frame size and same wheels). Seems there is general concensus that the Special tubing is the SL/SP super set. Bicycle Guide did a review of the 1985 Trofeo (presumable labeled with Special) and claimed that it was made of SL/SP superset. So it does make me wonder what exactly is in the Formula 1. I have to admit that for general riding I prefer the feel of the Trofeo over the Campione. Both as you would expect ride like classic steel bikes but the Trofeo has more of the "magic carpet ride" feel of just gliding over bumps in the road, yet it has a stiff BB.
Although they may have subtle geometry differences, I don't think that explains the difference is the ride, pretty sure it is the tubeset that I am feeling. The Trofeo/Formula1 just has a bit more spring to it.
04-26-17, 02:29 PM
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"Both as you would expect ride like classic steel bikes but the Trofeo has more of the "magic carpet ride" feel of just gliding over bumps in the road, yet it has a stiff BB."
I believe that aptly describes the ultimate ride quality Bianchi was searching for with these tubing sets. It is too bad that as even better lighter tube steels came along, Nivachrome being first, market pressures were forcing more aluminum and eventually CF. Given the opportunity I wonder what they could have come up with using Nivachrome and the later steels in a 1K ish bike but it was not to be.
I believe that aptly describes the ultimate ride quality Bianchi was searching for with these tubing sets. It is too bad that as even better lighter tube steels came along, Nivachrome being first, market pressures were forcing more aluminum and eventually CF. Given the opportunity I wonder what they could have come up with using Nivachrome and the later steels in a 1K ish bike but it was not to be.
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04-26-17, 03:01 PM
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yeah I'm coming to the conclusion that the 1980s vintage steel (notable lugged SL/SLX) may be the sweet spot for road bikes. The 1990s high end steel (EL-OS, Genius, etc.) is way more expensive on the resale market so obviously they are "perceived" to be superior. But frankly I have ridden EL-OS, awesome, smooth riding bike for sure, but not sure of any real improvement over my Bianchi SL/SP. Weighs a bit less but in the end you still get a 21-22 pound bike so the weight difference is negligible.
How would the late 1980s Bianchi SLX frames compare with the Formula 1 or Special that I have in terms of ride quality, stiffness, etc? Would I notice any difference?
How would the late 1980s Bianchi SLX frames compare with the Formula 1 or Special that I have in terms of ride quality, stiffness, etc? Would I notice any difference?
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