A new consideration in regards to autos
08-16-15, 02:31 PM
#51
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The improvement will remain marked as long as Google makes the sole determination of fault in any collision involving one of their own vehicles.
08-16-15, 03:04 PM
#52
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My prediction ( maybe I am wrong) is that massive increases in public transit is a more realistic scenario then self driving cars. With population growing so rapidly, self driving cars will not solve traffic gridlock in urban areas, because you will still have people using those self driving cars as their private vehicles for getting around. I think only public transit can solve our traffic woes. When I look at my city where I live right now, there is simply no more room to make the roads wider or add new roads to accommodate more vehicles. So what's the solution ??.
I don't think people will have a driverless car in their garage as there is no point unless you're unable to drive for some reason. If there is one in your garage it would be a shared resource and you'd just be supplying a temporary storage location.
08-16-15, 03:22 PM
#53
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I believe all of the collisions involved the Google car being rear-ended at an intersection, so it's not likely they are at fault. It is remotely possible that they are making everything up, but I'm just not into such conspiracy theory stuff. YMMV.
08-16-15, 03:25 PM
#54
Prefers Cicero
I wasn't concerned about an accident, more about how a driverless car will respond if the players don't clear a path. Especially if it is a delivery vehicle with no person inside who might shame them into moving.
08-16-15, 03:28 PM
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Unless people surround it there's still a way out. If it is taken prisoner, I guess the car will have to call for help, which would at least make for an amusing news story.
08-16-15, 04:53 PM
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...........
The social mechanism of adoption was proposed some months ago by Paul Krugman in his blog. He suggested that the truly affluent would go first and then be followed by the wannabes, just like with helicopters and limos in dense eastern cities and for the same reason: better time management. After the wannabes, the next tier down will demand their own and so on down the economic ladder as Tata and Samsung bring out their economy models. I suspect that less than a decade after the first ten thousand of them hit the road they will be ubiquitous and perhaps even a majority. I also suspect that less than a decade after that licensing requirements for drivers of human operated vehicles will be tightened up substantially based on the data that almost all road deaths and injuries are caused by human drivers.
Frankly, the more human drivers I deal with, the more I wish all manufacturers of autonomous cars the best of luck.
The social mechanism of adoption was proposed some months ago by Paul Krugman in his blog. He suggested that the truly affluent would go first and then be followed by the wannabes, just like with helicopters and limos in dense eastern cities and for the same reason: better time management. After the wannabes, the next tier down will demand their own and so on down the economic ladder as Tata and Samsung bring out their economy models. I suspect that less than a decade after the first ten thousand of them hit the road they will be ubiquitous and perhaps even a majority. I also suspect that less than a decade after that licensing requirements for drivers of human operated vehicles will be tightened up substantially based on the data that almost all road deaths and injuries are caused by human drivers.
Frankly, the more human drivers I deal with, the more I wish all manufacturers of autonomous cars the best of luck.
08-16-15, 05:04 PM
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They should turn the rail yard into a shopping mall. The railroad comes thru a dedicated opening. Either goods are sold directly from the train or shelves and floor space in the immediate vicinity is stocked.
08-16-15, 05:34 PM
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Look at that B. Carfree something we might agree on.
Roody the problem with your two suggestions is buses do not pick you up and drop you off where you want when you want. Never have never will. Bikes require people to exercise and that is as bad as a four letter word in a society that does't have an average walking distance of 10,000 steps.
The closest we get to door to door service is a taxi and just how different is that from driverless cars service wise. A bus won't take you furniture shopping. A bus won't take you to the club dancing on the weekend and even if it did it wouldn't take you home. A bike might take you to the club but no one would want to sit by you on a warm summer evening. ;>)
I was thinking about the street hockey thing and realized all you have to do is not program a driverless car in the game app the kids are using to play the game anyway. It is not like many kids are out playing anyway. Not if they should but are they?
Roody the problem with your two suggestions is buses do not pick you up and drop you off where you want when you want. Never have never will. Bikes require people to exercise and that is as bad as a four letter word in a society that does't have an average walking distance of 10,000 steps.
The closest we get to door to door service is a taxi and just how different is that from driverless cars service wise. A bus won't take you furniture shopping. A bus won't take you to the club dancing on the weekend and even if it did it wouldn't take you home. A bike might take you to the club but no one would want to sit by you on a warm summer evening. ;>)
I was thinking about the street hockey thing and realized all you have to do is not program a driverless car in the game app the kids are using to play the game anyway. It is not like many kids are out playing anyway. Not if they should but are they?
08-16-15, 05:42 PM
#59
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Look at that B. Carfree something we might agree on.
Roody the problem with your two suggestions is buses do not pick you up and drop you off where you want when you want. Never have never will. Bikes require people to exercise and that is as bad as a four letter word in a society that does't have an average walking distance of 10,000 steps.
The closest we get to door to door service is a taxi and just how different is that from driverless cars service wise. A bus won't take you furniture shopping. A bus won't take you to the club dancing on the weekend and even if it did it wouldn't take you home. A bike might take you to the club but no one would want to sit by you on a warm summer evening. ;>)
I was thinking about the street hockey thing and realized all you have to do is not program a driverless car in the game app the kids are using to play the game anyway. It is not like many kids are out playing anyway. Not if they should but are they?
Roody the problem with your two suggestions is buses do not pick you up and drop you off where you want when you want. Never have never will. Bikes require people to exercise and that is as bad as a four letter word in a society that does't have an average walking distance of 10,000 steps.
The closest we get to door to door service is a taxi and just how different is that from driverless cars service wise. A bus won't take you furniture shopping. A bus won't take you to the club dancing on the weekend and even if it did it wouldn't take you home. A bike might take you to the club but no one would want to sit by you on a warm summer evening. ;>)
I was thinking about the street hockey thing and realized all you have to do is not program a driverless car in the game app the kids are using to play the game anyway. It is not like many kids are out playing anyway. Not if they should but are they?
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08-16-15, 07:03 PM
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Roody: yes I do live in a different world and we have talked about it many times. I live in the world that is and you in the world that could have been.
What makes us different is how we see people responding to the challenges this world throws at them.
I see a whole new generation that studies say would give up a job before they gave up their smart phone or tablet. I see a society that wants instant gratification and all the things it took their grand parents most of their life to get.
I don't believe you see the same things. Like I said I don't see people willing to wait for a bus if there is any other option. I see a generation who starts a life of entertainment late in the evening and doesn't stop till zero early thirty in the morning.
I don't see a society that is looking to ride a bike in the heat, even if I do. I don't see a new generation willing to ride a bike in the rain and cold, something even I avoid.
I do see a society that thinks life is doing things the easy way. Cars are the easy way to do things on your own time frame and taxis are the only other thing that come close.
I see shopping malls where 99 out of 100 people will not use the stairs to walk up to the second floor.
I even see a society that has abolished gym class in school because exercise is too time consuming and considered non productive.
So yes we live in a different world, by our experiences.
What makes us different is how we see people responding to the challenges this world throws at them.
I see a whole new generation that studies say would give up a job before they gave up their smart phone or tablet. I see a society that wants instant gratification and all the things it took their grand parents most of their life to get.
I don't believe you see the same things. Like I said I don't see people willing to wait for a bus if there is any other option. I see a generation who starts a life of entertainment late in the evening and doesn't stop till zero early thirty in the morning.
I don't see a society that is looking to ride a bike in the heat, even if I do. I don't see a new generation willing to ride a bike in the rain and cold, something even I avoid.
I do see a society that thinks life is doing things the easy way. Cars are the easy way to do things on your own time frame and taxis are the only other thing that come close.
I see shopping malls where 99 out of 100 people will not use the stairs to walk up to the second floor.
I even see a society that has abolished gym class in school because exercise is too time consuming and considered non productive.
So yes we live in a different world, by our experiences.
08-16-15, 07:09 PM
#61
Prefers Cicero
Roody: yes I do live in a different world and we have talked about it many times. I live in the world that is and you in the world that could have been.
What makes us different is how we see people responding to the challenges this world throws at them.
I see a whole new generation that studies say would give up a job before they gave up their smart phone or tablet. I see a society that wants instant gratification and all the things it took their grand parents most of their life to get.
I don't believe you see the same things. Like I said I don't see people willing to wait for a bus if there is any other option. I see a generation who starts a life of entertainment late in the evening and doesn't stop till zero early thirty in the morning.
I don't see a society that is looking to ride a bike in the heat, even if I do. I don't see a new generation willing to ride a bike in the rain and cold, something even I avoid.
I do see a society that thinks life is doing things the easy way. Cars are the easy way to do things on your own time frame and taxis are the only other thing that come close.
I see shopping malls where 99 out of 100 people will not use the stairs to walk up to the second floor.
I even see a society that has abolished gym class in school because exercise is too time consuming and considered non productive.
So yes we live in a different world, by our experiences.
What makes us different is how we see people responding to the challenges this world throws at them.
I see a whole new generation that studies say would give up a job before they gave up their smart phone or tablet. I see a society that wants instant gratification and all the things it took their grand parents most of their life to get.
I don't believe you see the same things. Like I said I don't see people willing to wait for a bus if there is any other option. I see a generation who starts a life of entertainment late in the evening and doesn't stop till zero early thirty in the morning.
I don't see a society that is looking to ride a bike in the heat, even if I do. I don't see a new generation willing to ride a bike in the rain and cold, something even I avoid.
I do see a society that thinks life is doing things the easy way. Cars are the easy way to do things on your own time frame and taxis are the only other thing that come close.
I see shopping malls where 99 out of 100 people will not use the stairs to walk up to the second floor.
I even see a society that has abolished gym class in school because exercise is too time consuming and considered non productive.
So yes we live in a different world, by our experiences.
08-16-15, 07:30 PM
#62
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Cooker:
Having been a student of history I am not sure I do or rather can. The old ways were not really the good old days.
Every great society has gone its own way even when a few have tossed up their hands like some wizard trying to stop a tidal wave.
Innovation often creates new problems and leaves part of its old self behind.
But as romantic as Jousting at windmills may seem in the end society goes where it goes. We can either ride the wave or get smashed by it. For the last few years I have felt a lot more like a surfer than a sea wall.
Having been a student of history I am not sure I do or rather can. The old ways were not really the good old days.
Every great society has gone its own way even when a few have tossed up their hands like some wizard trying to stop a tidal wave.
Innovation often creates new problems and leaves part of its old self behind.
But as romantic as Jousting at windmills may seem in the end society goes where it goes. We can either ride the wave or get smashed by it. For the last few years I have felt a lot more like a surfer than a sea wall.
08-16-15, 07:45 PM
#63
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Cooker I might add athe future that this new society is heading in just may be an exciting time to live in. So it isn't necessarily a bad thing that the old one might be left behind.
08-16-15, 08:02 PM
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Agreed, and I think the era of autonomous vehicles will bring about a great many benefits. I do hope and would advocate for them to at least have an option for bicycle racks. These have been quite successful in public transit by allowing people to use bicycles for at least part of their trip length even if they don't want to cycle the entire distance and also relieve some anxiety people may have about cycling (what if I get too tired, what if the weather turns bad, what if I have a mechanical breakdown, etc.). Being able to call on an autonomous vehicle to come pick you and your bike up in such situations may well encourage more people to give cycling a try.
08-16-15, 09:48 PM
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Prathmann:
No reason they couldn't haul a bike. I have a friend that cycle tours with ditching more than a saddle bag, cell phone and a wallet with his credit card. He said there were times he has called a cab to come and get him and take him to a motel when the weather turns bad.
No reason they couldn't haul a bike. I have a friend that cycle tours with ditching more than a saddle bag, cell phone and a wallet with his credit card. He said there were times he has called a cab to come and get him and take him to a motel when the weather turns bad.
08-16-15, 09:53 PM
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It is also possible that malfunctioning software may be throwing the Google cars into reverse or making sudden stops without cause or warning at intersections. Do you believe every big organization's press releases/advertising/promotional flak or just those from Google?
08-16-15, 10:19 PM
#67
Prefers Cicero
Innovation often creates new problems and leaves part of its old self behind.
But as romantic as Jousting at windmills may seem in the end society goes where it goes. We can either ride the wave or get smashed by it. For the last few years I have felt a lot more like a surfer than a sea wall.
But as romantic as Jousting at windmills may seem in the end society goes where it goes. We can either ride the wave or get smashed by it. For the last few years I have felt a lot more like a surfer than a sea wall.
08-16-15, 10:30 PM
#68
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It is also possible that malfunctioning software may be throwing the Google cars into reverse or making sudden stops without cause or warning at intersections. Do you believe every big organization's press releases/advertising/promotional flak or just those from Google?
As far as sudden stops, anyone who runs into a car that stops in front of them, unless the stopping car had just entered the lane and did so without allowing the following vehicle to establish a safe following distance, is at fault. This is pretty basic and the reason motorists are supposed to maintain two to four seconds of following distance. Back to driver's ed for you.
08-16-15, 10:50 PM
#69
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Cooker: to what point does it matter what the non adopters say?
It all comes down to accepting the majorities vision of the future as they hope it will be or joining the minority that doesn't want what the masses want because it isn't a perfect solution.
In most cases I find myself having more in common with technology that makes life easier for the most people. Because we can't make everyone happy anyway.
Trying to stop progress hardly ever works. Yes it can be slowed down but one people start voting with their wallet the non adopters are doomed.
I don't know if I will ever see driverless cars become the norm but I believe I will live to see them get started.
To a degree it is a bit like watching the down fall of news papers. By the time I read a paper the news is old news. Like I said that might not be a bad thing.
It all comes down to accepting the majorities vision of the future as they hope it will be or joining the minority that doesn't want what the masses want because it isn't a perfect solution.
In most cases I find myself having more in common with technology that makes life easier for the most people. Because we can't make everyone happy anyway.
Trying to stop progress hardly ever works. Yes it can be slowed down but one people start voting with their wallet the non adopters are doomed.
I don't know if I will ever see driverless cars become the norm but I believe I will live to see them get started.
To a degree it is a bit like watching the down fall of news papers. By the time I read a paper the news is old news. Like I said that might not be a bad thing.
08-17-15, 06:53 AM
#70
Sophomoric Member
I agree. For me, jaded and cynical don't cut it. I'm going to keep trying for what I think is right and good. I want a teeny piece of the future to say "Roody". And I'm going to remember what it's like to be young for as long as I can. I cherish the enthusiasm and optimism of youth, and use it to fend of the cynicism and hopelessness of aging--just like I use the bike and exercise to fend off some of the physical problems of aging. I want to keep informed about the new ideas and movements coming along, and judge them on their merits. Some (like driverless cars) I might reject on their merits. But I'll try never to reject an idea or social change just because it's new and we never tried it before.
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08-17-15, 07:18 AM
#71
Prefers Cicero
Again, a false dichotomy. I'm not arguing for the status quo or the past - I'm arguing for a future shaped by everybody, not just advertisers.
08-17-15, 07:23 AM
#72
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Since the Google cars are relatively well-known where they are being tested, I'd be mildly surprised if one of them had rammed someone by going backwards without the victim and other witnesses coming forward and it making the news. I can maintain scepticism without engaging in conspiracy theories or wild speculation, unlike certain cats.
08-17-15, 07:40 AM
#73
Sophomoric Member
Cooker: to what point does it matter what the non adopters say?
It all comes down to accepting the majorities vision of the future as they hope it will be or joining the minority that doesn't want what the masses want because it isn't a perfect solution.
In most cases I find myself having more in common with technology that makes life easier for the most people. Because we can't make everyone happy anyway.
Trying to stop progress hardly ever works. Yes it can be slowed down but one people start voting with their wallet the non adopters are doomed.
I don't know if I will ever see driverless cars become the norm but I believe I will live to see them get started.
To a degree it is a bit like watching the down fall of news papers. By the time I read a paper the news is old news. Like I said that might not be a bad thing.
It all comes down to accepting the majorities vision of the future as they hope it will be or joining the minority that doesn't want what the masses want because it isn't a perfect solution.
In most cases I find myself having more in common with technology that makes life easier for the most people. Because we can't make everyone happy anyway.
Trying to stop progress hardly ever works. Yes it can be slowed down but one people start voting with their wallet the non adopters are doomed.
I don't know if I will ever see driverless cars become the norm but I believe I will live to see them get started.
To a degree it is a bit like watching the down fall of news papers. By the time I read a paper the news is old news. Like I said that might not be a bad thing.
I do think that autonomous automobiles will result in more cars on the road, not fewer. I don't think that the largest companies in the world are all of a sudden interested in establishing a "sharing economy" where there is no private ownership of automobiles. They're still interested in an economy where they can sell MORE cars, not fewer. That's not progress, it's a giant step backwards.
More bikes, not more cars!
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08-17-15, 07:50 AM
#74
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Cooker:
The future of of society is whatever is accepted by the most people in society. The objectors will always be with us no matter what direction that future takes.
Social change is a side issue and seems to always be in flux no matter where technology takes us.
If automated vehicles come they will come because people have voted with their paycheck on that technology. If they vote that way the automated car will roll over the ever complaining voices of the doubters. Happened with cars in our society when bicycles and trains were at or close to their peak.
They may be impractical I don't know but they have our attention and offer door to door transportation in relative comfort and privacy.
the difference between us is I don't care how a person spends their money or what the use to get from point A to point B. If they could by a jet pack or helicopter to fly to work it is none of my business. If the want to walk or ride a bike that is none of my business as well.
The future of of society is whatever is accepted by the most people in society. The objectors will always be with us no matter what direction that future takes.
Social change is a side issue and seems to always be in flux no matter where technology takes us.
If automated vehicles come they will come because people have voted with their paycheck on that technology. If they vote that way the automated car will roll over the ever complaining voices of the doubters. Happened with cars in our society when bicycles and trains were at or close to their peak.
They may be impractical I don't know but they have our attention and offer door to door transportation in relative comfort and privacy.
the difference between us is I don't care how a person spends their money or what the use to get from point A to point B. If they could by a jet pack or helicopter to fly to work it is none of my business. If the want to walk or ride a bike that is none of my business as well.
08-17-15, 07:58 AM
#75
Prefers Cicero
Or camp on your street, for that matter.