fthomas

I have returned to the States and to BikeForums after a three year stay in the Philippines. I am surprised at the amount of bravado, posturing, hubris and inability to stay on topic in a number of sub-Forums here at BF. Inane comments that do nothing to further the OP's original subject many of which I would classify as juvenile. And that is being polite.

Have things changed so dramatically that common courtesy combined with some serious moderation has been thrown to the sidelines?

I have far better memories of the tenor here (not so much the 50+ area) than what I see today. Am I missing something?

Trust me, I am anything but thin skinned. I do, however, appreciate polite discourse / discussion even if heated. That is not what I am reading in various sub-forums here and it is a major departure from the past.

10 Wheels

What No Internet in the Philippines?

BF has 30/40 New Members each day..365 days Time 35 equals 12775 each year you were Gone.

fthomas

Internet was no problem. There are hardy and brave souls pedaling in Manila, but i was not one of them.

It is a good thing that Bike Forums continues to grow and I have noticed a considerable increase in international
participation.

So your point is ______________________ ?

Does growth alone justify doing away with common courtesy and civil discourse?

10 Wheels

New members I guess.

fthomas

I like the flag in your avatar by the way. You know what they say

Never ask anyone where their from. If they're from Texas they'll tell you. Otherwise you don't want to embarrass em.

canklecat

Forget it, Jake, it's the internet.

Overall Bike Forums isn't bad. I lurked for awhile before registering and posting, and received some very helpful suggestions regarding folding bikes. The niche sub forums vary considerably - largely influenced by the types of bikes and target demographics - but I found the folding bikes forum pretty friendly and informative. A couple others, not so much.

Any gear for any hobby that targets either a purist type of demographic or a very young or old demographic is likely to encounter more, umm... colorful personalities and thread drift. Generalized equipment tends to draw a more tolerant demographic, and I've found discussions of commuting bikes and hybrid, cruiser or comfort bikes pretty chummy, with only a few dismissive or elitist type comments.

Frankly, most web forums have gotten worse with age. In some ways it's an outdated paradigm. I moderated a few hobbyist forums for more than a decade and just resigned because it was hopeless. Too many members insisting on hot button off topic drift in every thread, no matter how irrelevant.

In the late 1990s the carefully moderated web forum paradigm arose from the uselessnet dung heap. But after a decade or so the same abrasive tone, incivility, thread drift and bickering that people claimed they disliked in uselessnet became the new normal in moderated web forums. Social media have changed expectations and lowered the bar for civility. On the one hand, I enjoy Facebook. On the other hand, I've unfollowed, hidden and blocked more people and groups during the past year than during the entire previous six or seven years I was on FB. I don't know whether incivility has grown or I've just become less patient with it.

Nowadays when I'm researching anything I'll first Google around for a few hours or days, mostly reading reviews and comments on static content articles and blogs. Most niche interest websites and blogs have fairly carefully curated comments sections with less gratuitous abrasiveness and fewer digressions. I'll join a discussion forum only after exhausting other research.

So far, so good on Bike Forums. While the diversity of equipment choices is mind boggling compared with when I bought my last serious bike (a Motobecane in 1976), that's a good thing. There's less unwarranted brand consciousness than with some hobbies, and more emphasis on getting the best value at a given price regardless of the marque.

And I'll apologize in advance to the mods of this forum. This is the sort of thing that makes mods facepalm on any type of forum. It's usually a no-win situation for anyone -- to mods, it invariably deteriorates to bickering; to members, it seems like censorship if comments or entire threads are deleted. It's always a choice of "Do I rip the bandage off slowly or quickly?" Either way, nobody is happy.

fthomas

Thanks for your well written and thorough perspective. 4 years ago there were a number of interesting and insightful folks here in the 50+. I am sure there still are even if the names have changed. The 50+ threads always tended to be more positive even when disagreements arose. I was just taken aback by the abrasive attitudes, machismo, bravado and inflammatory demeanors in some of the threads I was reading in other sub forums.

It certainly made me wonder how BF is moderated now, which I have to agree is no easy task. Without some firm and reasonable rules / guidelines I can see where much of what I am referring to will simply lead to less positive participation of those disinclined to put up with the immature and abrasive conduct of some. Thus making for a less than enjoyable forum experience.

Guess it a different dynamic than the past and something I was surprised by.

Thanks again for your perspective.

peterws

Eh up lads. . . tea breaks over. ...

bakes1

The level of courtesy on any forum and the internet in general has not changed since either was created.
You just happen to be wearing rose colored glasses and do in fact appear to have thin skin.
There is a reason that all forums use mods. BF needs mods now and I am fairly certain they needed and had mods four years ago.
Whats your point again?
Lastly, was the animal in your avatar harmed during the making of that pic? It sure appears possible and I take offense to that.
You never saw that kind of animal cruelty on the internet four years ago

baron von trail 

Are you a cyclist or a bike rider?

BobbyG

A buddy of mine is on a softball forum that emulates a drunken soccer riot within 3 posts no matter the subject.

qcpmsame 

OldsCOOL

I've been here since....oh wait, that's on my av. Anyways, the internet is people. As said, this place has swelled in membership and activity, especially in this current bike boom. As for the tone in here, it isnt always rude, snippity and arrogant. Most of the time it is rather sedate. (Punfully intended)

OldsCOOL

Toeclips or clipless?

GlennR

Even during the "tour" they will attack the Yellow Jersey if he has a mechanical issues, unlike the old days when they would wait.

Rick@OCRR

I've been on this forum for several years and can't honestly say that I've experienced the kind of changes you (the OP) have. Seems pretty much the same to me.

I can't comment on many of the other forums though I find "Commuting" and our/my local "SoCal" forums friendly and quite useful. Most of my posts and threads that I've read, however, have been on this 50+ forum.

Rick / OCRR

fthomas

Hey gang! The reason I posted my observations here at 50+ is because it was and still is the most congenial sub Forum.

Now that the issue of Toeclips or Clipless has entered into the discussion. I have to say that platforms are the way for me to go.

I thank yall for your comments. I just need to spend more time here, get acquainted again and participate in some of the threads where I can contribute positively or ask some positively stupid questions. Trust me I am sure I've got plenty of those.

Pamestique 

Is this Frank Thomas who use to hang around BF?

I agree with Rick... there hasn't really been much change. The forums that were positive and uplifting (C & A and 50+) remain so and the forums that were "difficult" still are.

I hang mostly in P & R and frankly, while there seems to be alot of childish sniping, it's actually a friendlier place; the mods have done a excellent job keeping things civil...

Social media has changed alot and people are now more emboldened to make comments less appropiate. Also I think younger people, now communicating almost exclusively through a "faceless" media, lack tact; they don't know how to be polite. They aren't rude mind ya, just don't have manners like us old folks...

If this is Frank, welcome back... hope you find one of the forums to your liking...

DiabloScott

I thought this thread was going to be about how we no longer need that sticky *****THE TONE IN HERE**** thread by Tom Stormcrowe because whatever problem prompted that post 2-1/2 years ago isn't a thing anymore.

StephenH

That's kind of my observation, too. The people somewhat come and go, but some of those that left were real yahoos, too, so it all stays about the same. Or maybe I'm just one of the uncivil yahoos so I don't notice the deterioration.

I'm okay with thread drift, a lot of times, the alternative is deadness, which is not good either.

"Juvenile" may be a good term for 50% of what's on the internet, but then again, I'm not aware of an age limit in the general forums. So yes, you likely have some people that lack maturity. If they're riding bicycles and talking about it online, that's a good thing, though, so we want 'em to feel welcome here. There's a couple of guys at my bike shop that are way younger than me, and I appreciate their help.

az_cyclist

I agree with Rick and Pamestique.. I dont see that the 50+ has changed much.... and I have been fortunate to meet a couple out on rides (Rick@OCRR and Biker395)

fthomas

Ahhh! A bike rider?

Jim from Boston

The Tone In Here" and other Sub Forums - Things have changed from 4 Years Ago!!!

I appreciate these types of threads, sort of introspective about the cycling lifestyle, and for me BikeForums is a keystone, when and when not riding. I’ve been an avid subscriber since about 2008. I guess I roll with the punches; dismissing posts that are silly or vitriolic, or enjoying and replying to many, and reading all those that attract me to decide. In particular I have enjoyed the extra special benefits of meeting others in person on a few Fifty-Plus Annual Rides.

I once posted about the BF style I consider its best form:

Furthermore,

I took note of a couple of other recent threads of a similar nature to this one:

• "BF Influence ... good or bad, you decide"
  
  
• "I wanted to say how much I am enjoying reading the information & ideas on this forum"
  
  and this memorable one from the past:
• ”How Do You Communicate on Forums vs Face-to-Face” that actually got closed because it got so vituperative, with implied physical threats.

volosong

I do miss some of the 'guys' from several years ago.

chasm54

Much of this is about culture. As the membership expands, more cultures collide. In some cultures it is thought impolite to express disagreement. In others a "full and frank exchange of views" is regarded as not merely normal, but pleasing. And individual preferences vary, I like a vigorous debate while others, similarly raised, dislike confrontation.

If one chooses to participate in a forum like this one has to be prepared to encounter differences of style and taste. Those don't necessarily imply boorishness, though some may. De gustibus non est disputandem.