sd5782 

So, what is the theory on why vintage wheel cones get pitted? I’ve read things of poor metal. Other theories are heat from high speeds causing the outer surface to crack and then flake off. Lack of lubrication comes up often as well as over tight bearing adjustment. It seems odd though that even tearing apart a very low mileage but very old bike, cones will be pitted. That probably rules out the heat issue, and a wear issue, but maybe not the lack of lube issue. It almost seems as if they pit just sitting unused for 30 years.

Most do seem to have thicker grease. Grease isn’t always dried and hardened, but not flowing? I’ve recently went to a slightly thinner grease perhaps the consistency of yogurt vs the slightly thicker high temp grease. I wasn’t looking for a discussion on grease types as that has been beaten to death. It just is odd that it seems that all old cones are bad whether used and abused or just sitting unused.

Bill Kapaun

1. They are OLD!
2.Your experience may not be the norm.
3. You don't know the history, so you can make up any reason you want.

Iride01 

Older bikes may have been more prone to the pitting of cones and races. However even then, for my bikes, the pitting wasn't in the part of them that has the shiny line going around it that shows where the ball bearing actually touches it. So I didn't really worry about it till it did get inside that shiny line.

Mostly I think it might have been moisture collecting in the part of the grease that never moved till being replaced or acids that may have formed for some other reason I'd not know enough chemistry to explain.

sd5782 

And it seems that on these old bikes the races are never ever pitted.

Iride01 

You may have had better bikes BITD than I did.

sd5782 

But that’s the question, the cones are always pitted and the races never pitted?

Iride01 

Cones are going to be a one of the first ingress points that will see water and any other contamination getting into the hub before the race. Most of my bikes BITD didn't have dust covers that sealed everything up as well as they do today. Some didn't even have dust covers. So lots of water and sand got in mine. And probably cleaning chemicals too for the few time I had a mind to wash it.

KerryIrons

Essentially it is a combination of quality of materials, proper hub adjustment, and proper lubrication. Back in the day Campy hub cones rarely pitted and only after LOTS of miles, while Normandy & Schwinn (and many others) pitted after relatively short mileage even when both got the same lube and were adjusted by competent mechanics. Cheap hubs use cheap materials and manufacturing processes. Those things wear out faster.

RCMoeur 

Long, ago, a shop manager pointed out that if a cone fails through pitting, you replace it with a new cone and bearings. If the races pit out, the hub is shot and whole wheel must be tossed or rebuilt. So the cone failing is the least-worst failure mode. Similar to loose-bearing bottom brackets in that the spindle usually (but not always) fails prior to the cups.

My observation is cones usually have a hardened steel face (hence the dark color) while races are made of milder steel and don't seem to fail in such a localized or abrupt manner, but wear more gradually and uniformly.

Bill Kapaun

The LENGTH of the bearing surface of the cone VS the LENGTH of the bearing surface of the cup.
The cup is about 3/8" greater diameter than the cone and has more than 1 linear inch around the circumference. (3/8"*PI)
EDIT- I later realized results may be different for a rear hub and I used a typical front in my example. So I decided to do a little "flat" arithmetic and make some rough calculations.
These are only in an XY dimension and probably should include a Z. I'm too old for that kind of Z.
So for a 10 & 11 ball 3/16" front-
The outer race is 1.92 or 1.80 times the length of the inner race. The more balls, the ratio decreases. Think a giant hub w/ 1000 balls.
For a 9x1/4" rear I came up with 2.07.
If you want Z, do it yourself.
If you don't know what Z is, look it up.

Duragrouch

This is not "pitting". If it was, it would affect the cone all the way around it. This is "spalling", from excess pressure. Why the cone and not the cup? Because (once installed on the bike) the cone does not rotate so one part is taking all the load, whereas the cup is rotating so wears even. Why is the cone spalling? Because the bearings are too loose. My dad said, always better a little too loose than too tight, he adjusted car bearings too loose, and he was engineer, but didn't have specialized bearing knowledge, he was mostly wrong. When cone and cup bearings are at all loose (even a tiny bit of slack, but more loose is even worse), the loads at any given time go into 2 or 3 bearing balls on the bottom. When the bearing has proper "preload", the load goes into nearly 180 degrees of the bearing balls, or almost half. This greatly reduces peak loads on both the balls, and the cones. How much preload? You can feel it, not by spinning the wheel, but spinning the axle in your fingers. No preload is smooth and loose. Too tight, the bearing will feel "notchy". Backed off slightly from that, it won't feel notchy, but you will feel bearing... engagement is the only word I can think of... that is correct preload. I always used to run my bike bearings with ever so slight bit of slack, had spalling. After learning more about bearings, and adjusting with proper preload, VASTLY longer intervals between bearings loosening up and needing adjustment at minimum, or repacking with grease, and no spalling.

Now, with a nutted axle, adjustment is a piece of cake, because when you put on the bike, just the very ends of the axles (between the Outer Lock Nut and outside nut) are being compressed. On a quick release (QR) axle, more difficult, you adjust it perfect, put it in the bike, the QR compresses the entire axle, and it's too tight, but you don't know this because the wheel has too much leverage and you are not spinning the axle in your fingers. Good mechanics have various tricks to solve this, such as another set of cones or nuts on the axle ends, out of the bike, with the QR clamped down, then they adjust the bearings that way, and it'll be perfect on the bike with similar QR pressure.

Have a cone that is spalled and no spare for now? Mark the spalling position with bright nail polish on the outer lock nut, install in the bike with the spalling facing UP; It will encounter low loads and will work for now, in fact, quite a long time if needed, and you'll notice the difference in how smooth it rolls with your weight on the bike.

Cup and cone bottom brackets, the above bearing settings also apply. The spindles also can spall if run a long time with no preload. Need to use that spindle for now? Same trick; The spindle spalled on the bottom and slightly back (so about 7 o'clock when viewing the crank on the right side) when the pedal is forward under your leg thrust and under chain tension aft; Mark it on the end, and install the crank with the spalling facing about 1 o'clock if possible, when the pedal is forward. On the left side it'll be 5 o'clock and 11 o'clock respectively. It'll work for now. Also, caged BB balls, you will improve life by tossing those completely and using all loose balls, so you can fit more balls, to spread load better; Must be all new, to have them exactly equal in diameter within 0.0001"

daniell

Years ago I wanted to replace the race of a Campy Nuova Record hub. They sold the part to do this. Nobody could tell me however how to get the worn race off.

Duragrouch

This is only a wild-@ss guess, I've never seen one, but my guess would be the race is press-fit into the hub housing, with the hole being slightly smaller than the hub bore (but larger than the axle), so you could place the hub face down on one side, and from the other side, use a punch, alternating all around the periphery, to slowly drive it out of the hub, then reverse the hub and do the other side. Pressing in the new races could be done on an arbor press, a hydraulic press, or bench vice. Again, this is only a guess, if no threads are involved.

sweeks

Hahaha... I'm not going to say I'm a "good" mechanic; "minimally adequate" is more like it. But several years ago I bought one of THESE, and adjusting the bearings to the right amount of pre-load is a snap.

dedhed

While "too loose" is not good, an automotive tapered roller wheel bearing will be destroyed much quicker if too tight than too loose, and typically cause bigger issues due to heat.

Hondo6

Absolutely excellent comment here, @Duragrouch. Only one quibble.

IMO, true in many if not most cases, but not universally so. I can see at least one exception.

For old-style cup/cone bottom brackets, 11-ball retainers for 1/4" bearing balls of suitable diameter for bottom bracket use were indeed made using the old Campagnolo "flying saucer" style retainer by at least Campagnolo and Shimano (and maybe others). And 11-ball retainers for 1/4" bearing balls of suitable diameter using the now more common type retainer (standard bearing "cages") are also available. As I recall, 11 1/4" balls is all that will fit when loose in this style bottom bracket.

I can't see any disadvantage of using 11-ball retainers in a cup/cone bottom bracket (besides remembering which way the retainers face; depending on the type of retainer, they face in opposite directions when installed) - other than actually finding them. And they do have the advantage of keeping the bearings optimally spaced.

sd5782 

@Duragrouch, I found that an interesting explanation. That’s kinda why I posted, to get different takes on things. Previously in my inexperienced past I just adjusted for no play without thinking of the QR compression. Now I thought myself to be slightly more knowledgeable and set things up ever so slightly slack so the QR could snug things up. So, I guess the jury is still out.

As has been mentioned, old bikes with no provenance and maybe too many Normandy hubs and other mid to lower range bikes isn’t representative of much except old cheap cones. It’s nice to be able to occasionally find cones at the co-op to keep some of these going.

Dave Mayer

Good guess. I've replaced cups on a few (good) cup and cone hubs such as Dura-Ace and Record. Interestingly, these hubs have 28.0 mm ODs, so fit 6001 cart bearings, if you want to convert your old Record hub to fit cartridge bearings. And also, the old Record and Dura-Ace hubs were cross-compatible as far as cup dimensions. Lesser hubs such as Victory, Triomphe etc. had a smaller diameter, and were simply stamped steel definitely of an inferior quality in terms of finish. But probably good enough to last a lifetime if properly maintained.

But to preserve it superior cup and cone configuration, you carefully punch out the old cups using the same tools and technique as removing cartridge bearings, and from a donor hub, press-in the new cup. You can use a bench vice and the old wrecked cup to drive the new cup in place.

Arrowana

Done this a few times on old Maillard hubs, and it's pretty much as you describe. Don't actually remember what I used as a press though.

sweeks

I used to lubricate the front wheel bearings on my first car (a 1973 Plymouth Duster). The factory service manual called for torquing the bearings to some point, then backing the castellated nut off just until one of the slots aligned with a hole for a cotter pin. There was no play. Thanks for stimulating this memory!

Duragrouch

I actually have not had a need to do an auto wheel bearing job in decades, so my guess is you may be right. Dad recommended screwing the nut down until contact and snug, then backing off "two flats" on a six-sided nut, then find the closest slot for the cotter pin. I think two flats is too much, may result in more edge loading of the rollers. After doing a brake and bearing job, 6 months later, I blew a bearing to the point of bad sounds and spinning it on the spindle, 500 miles away from home. Fortunately, auto parts store was only a mile bike (bike on back of car), bought new bearing and grease and just enough tools to do the job on the side of the road, limped back home at about 45-50 mph. Replaced spindle, and bearings. Used Timkens. I had always thought perhaps I didn't examine the bearings enough when rebuilding, but I think now, too loose. Now on heavy trucks with liquid gear lube in the hub, those bearings are screwed down snug and torqued to a spec.

Duragrouch

Probably a baby sledge and a wood block. That's what dad and I always got by with on auto bearings. These days, if I had a house, I would not be without a hydraulic press, they are so darned inexpensive now.

Duragrouch

Yeah if caged balls have close spacing, you're right, no disadvantage, and perhaps an advantage of the balls rubbing on a cage that is much softer material, instead of adjacent bearings. The last cup and cone BB I worked on, the cage has balls spaced too far apart.

Duragrouch

That's great, and not expensive.

JohnDThompson 

I assume that when you write "races," you're referring to the cups. The reason the cones wear faster than the cup is because the bearing track on the cones is shorter than that of the cups, which means the cups spread the wear over a larger area and thus wear more slowly.