Rear Wheel Won't Drop In
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Rear Wheel Won't Drop In
I took out my rear wheel to replace a popped tube and now I am unable to get it to drop back in. No components were changed in the process except the tube. I also slightly tigtened the rear casette beacuase it was so loose it could be undone by hand.
I am fairly certain it is not an issue with the chain getting in the way. I have already tried deflating the tire, loosening the brakes. It feels like the wheel is getting caught on the casette side drop out,
I am fairly certain it is not an issue with the chain getting in the way. I have already tried deflating the tire, loosening the brakes. It feels like the wheel is getting caught on the casette side drop out,
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Sometimes some slight prying wider of the drop out width is needed. Sometimes the drop out can develop a burr which hinders axle entry. Usually a bit of "playing with/wiggling/slap of the hand on the tire" will let the axle settle in.
One test is to remove the wheel and place it along side the frame and see if that close axle end fits into the drop out slot, one side at a time. Another test is to reverse the wheel so the cassette is on the LH side. If that works then reverse back and retry.
Generally this type of problem requires looking for the hang up and that we can't do long distance with the photos provided. Andy
One test is to remove the wheel and place it along side the frame and see if that close axle end fits into the drop out slot, one side at a time. Another test is to reverse the wheel so the cassette is on the LH side. If that works then reverse back and retry.
Generally this type of problem requires looking for the hang up and that we can't do long distance with the photos provided. Andy
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Sometimes some slight prying wider of the drop out width is needed. Sometimes the drop out can develop a burr which hinders axle entry. Usually a bit of "playing with/wiggling/slap of the hand on the tire" will let the axle settle in.
One test is to remove the wheel and place it along side the frame and see if that close axle end fits into the drop out slot, one side at a time. Another test is to reverse the wheel so the cassette is on the LH side. If that works then reverse back and retry.
Generally this type of problem requires looking for the hang up and that we can't do long distance with the photos provided. Andy
One test is to remove the wheel and place it along side the frame and see if that close axle end fits into the drop out slot, one side at a time. Another test is to reverse the wheel so the cassette is on the LH side. If that works then reverse back and retry.
Generally this type of problem requires looking for the hang up and that we can't do long distance with the photos provided. Andy
I will try to reverse the wheel and see if that works.
Is there any way I could provide better photos?
Please help, im slowing loosing my mind after working on this for over a hour
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Sometimes some slight prying wider of the drop out width is needed. Sometimes the drop out can develop a burr which hinders axle entry. Usually a bit of "playing with/wiggling/slap of the hand on the tire" will let the axle settle in.
One test is to remove the wheel and place it along side the frame and see if that close axle end fits into the drop out slot, one side at a time. Another test is to reverse the wheel so the cassette is on the LH side. If that works then reverse back and retry.
Generally this type of problem requires looking for the hang up and that we can't do long distance with the photos provided. Andy
One test is to remove the wheel and place it along side the frame and see if that close axle end fits into the drop out slot, one side at a time. Another test is to reverse the wheel so the cassette is on the LH side. If that works then reverse back and retry.
Generally this type of problem requires looking for the hang up and that we can't do long distance with the photos provided. Andy
It almost feels as if the piece attached to the cassette/wheel is too large to fit on the frame. Is it possible I am missing a component?
This is how the cassette side looked when I got the left side to fully drop in. The cassette side wont rest on the drame, just on the quick release
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Has the derailleur hangar moved?
Try the nds side in it but from the outside
so the wheel is outside the frame. You might get a better look at what is catching it.
But it was in there before so it will go back in.
Did it come out easily?
Try the nds side in it but from the outside
so the wheel is outside the frame. You might get a better look at what is catching it.
But it was in there before so it will go back in.
Did it come out easily?
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See the gap between the frame
See the gap
See gap
See gap
Same as last photo with quick connect attached. Wheel wont sit on the frame
Same as last photo, different angle. See gap
right side will lay in with no issue
right side laying in with no issue
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I dont think sliding it in from the outside with help. The outside portion (red) of the derailler hanger has a slightly larger opening than the inside portion (black/silver)
It came out without much issue,
Doesnt make any sense to me....
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The only thing I can think of at this point is either:
1. The part of the wheel I am trying to rest on the frame is simply too large. Maybe I lost the component that is actually supposed to lay on the frame?
2. I bent the portion of the frame that the wheel is supposed to lay on such that the wheel can no longer fit. I am tempted to take a file and try to file down the portion of the frame where the wheel is supposed to lay on.
1. The part of the wheel I am trying to rest on the frame is simply too large. Maybe I lost the component that is actually supposed to lay on the frame?
2. I bent the portion of the frame that the wheel is supposed to lay on such that the wheel can no longer fit. I am tempted to take a file and try to file down the portion of the frame where the wheel is supposed to lay on.
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Odd that it came out without an issue. Your pictures are good; however they really don't tell me much other than it does appear that there may be a bit of an interference discrepancy. Do you happen to have a caliper to do some measurements? Measurements would be helpful to pinpoint.
Also have you tried to insert the wheel with the bike upright and not on the stand, as you would after an on the road repair? Do you have another wheel (or hub) that you could try?
Also have you tried to insert the wheel with the bike upright and not on the stand, as you would after an on the road repair? Do you have another wheel (or hub) that you could try?
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It appears to by a Mavic Aksium wheel. Is it possible the cassette side axle nut is backwards. See attached diagram.
Diagram
Diagram
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It appears to by a Mavic Aksium wheel. Is it possible the cassette side axle nut is backwards. See attached diagram.
Diagram
Diagram
Thanks,
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Odd that it came out without an issue. Your pictures are good; however they really don't tell me much other than it does appear that there may be a bit of an interference discrepancy. Do you happen to have a caliper to do some measurements? Measurements would be helpful to pinpoint.
Also have you tried to insert the wheel with the bike upright and not on the stand, as you would after an on the road repair? Do you have another wheel (or hub) that you could try?
Also have you tried to insert the wheel with the bike upright and not on the stand, as you would after an on the road repair? Do you have another wheel (or hub) that you could try?
I have tried inserting the wheel upright as well as facing down. All of the attached images are with the bike laying upright (on the saddle) as it would be duing a on the road repair. I do not have another wheel or hub.
thank you again for your help
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Is the chain on the same cog as the derailleur? (I generally put the rear derailleur in high gear - smallest cog with the shifter before I take it out. THen I make sure I drop the chain on that smallest cog when I replace the wheel.)
Ben
Edit: other possibilities: If one side is going in first, the rim/tire may be hanging up on the brake pad. I've had frames where I've had to stretch the dropouts apart a touch to get the wheel to drop in.
Ben
Edit: other possibilities: If one side is going in first, the rim/tire may be hanging up on the brake pad. I've had frames where I've had to stretch the dropouts apart a touch to get the wheel to drop in.
Last edited by 79pmooney; 04-11-20 at 06:14 PM.
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Pirkaus might have it. I haven't worked with many Mavic wheels with the bearing adjustment that requires the bearing preload sleeve (what many will mistakenly call the cone) to be replaced with each adjustment. But the second series of photos seem to show the RH axle end is now too large in diameter to fit the drop out. Good photos and angles this time. Andy
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Pirkaus might have it. I haven't worked with many Mavic wheels with the bearing adjustment that requires the bearing preload sleeve (what many will mistakenly call the cone) to be replaced with each adjustment. But the second series of photos seem to show the RH axle end is now too large in diameter to fit the drop out. Good photos and angles this time. Andy
I would expect both ends of the axle to show equal threads.
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It appears to by a Mavic Aksium wheel. Is it possible the cassette side axle nut is backwards. See attached diagram.
Diagram
Diagram
Last edited by justbike; 04-11-20 at 07:45 PM.
#17
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You should be looking at the top image in particular the part on the farthest right. There is a possibility it is on backwards on your wheel. The lack of serration on the face of the locknut is a giveaway. You'll probably need a chainwhip to get the cassette lockring off to get at it.
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The cassette is held onto the freehub body with the splined ID locking cap/ring, just outside of the axle end that is circled in red. Just like a standard hub set up. What is different is that RH axle end, compared to common loose ball hubs. IIRC Mavic's right side axle end cap retains the freehub body (and this is maybe what the OP was referencing when they mentioned "tightening up the cassette"). I believe this RH side of the system is not adjustable and the axle is not threaded to achieve this, only to bottom out the RH end cap to secure the FH body. It's the LH side that the bearing preload is done at. The cartridge bearing rides on a sleeve that threads onto the axle and the lock nut traps this. But there's some aspect of this system that is compressed/deformed so that it is not to be reused after removal (unlike previous Mavic pin tool worked preload rings). (When I was explained this years ago I rolled my eyes at the need to replace parts when a bearing adjustment or replacement was done. They claimed lower cost to produce the hub, yet the shop or customer would bear the cost done the road during maintenance). I could have some of this wrong, it's been quite a few years. But it should be a simple discovery to remove the RH axle end cap and see if it's reversible and thus if that will allow it to enter the drop out slot. Andy
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You should be looking at the top image in particular the part on the farthest right. There is a possibility it is on backwards on your wheel. The lack of serration on the face of the locknut is a giveaway. You'll probably need a chainwhip to get the cassette lockring off to get at it.
The lack of serration/thread on the exterior is logical given the side opposite is serraded but I do not believe that the cassette side is supposed to be threaded ... I came to this conclusion as the frame has indentation from the threading on the side opposite the cassette from laying on threaded nut but the other side is smooth. See attached.
One again, I want to thank everyone for trying to help me solve this mystery. I have been trying to avoid the LBS because I am located in NY, the epicenter of the virus in the US - plus I figured it would be nice to learn some mechanics. Of course, a simple tire change has turned into a ordeal that has taken up pretty much my whole day.
Cassette side of the frame. No thread marks in the metal. Indicates to me this side likely had a smooth piece sitting on it
Side of frame opposite the cassette. Imprint of threads in the frame's metal indicates to me the frame was sitting on the threaded portion of the wheel
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The cassette is held onto the freehub body with the splined ID locking cap/ring, just outside of the axle end that is circled in red. Just like a standard hub set up. What is different is that RH axle end, compared to common loose ball hubs. IIRC Mavic's right side axle end cap retains the freehub body (and this is maybe what the OP was referencing when they mentioned "tightening up the cassette"). I believe this RH side of the system is not adjustable and the axle is not threaded to achieve this, only to bottom out the RH end cap to secure the FH body. It's the LH side that the bearing preload is done at. The cartridge bearing rides on a sleeve that threads onto the axle and the lock nut traps this. But there's some aspect of this system that is compressed/deformed so that it is not to be reused after removal (unlike previous Mavic pin tool worked preload rings). (When I was explained this years ago I rolled my eyes at the need to replace parts when a bearing adjustment or replacement was done. They claimed lower cost to produce the hub, yet the shop or customer would bear the cost done the road during maintenance). I could have some of this wrong, it's been quite a few years. But it should be a simple discovery to remove the RH axle end cap and see if it's reversible and thus if that will allow it to enter the drop out slot. Andy
Thank you for your help. I will try and reverse it when I can get ahold of a chainwhip and the proper socket to remove the casette. That being said, from what I can see, I do not believe the nut is on backwards as I do not see any threads on the inside, at least on the portion currently facing outwards so I am unsure how you could tightening it in the other direction....
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Again my memory is not solid but I believe the RH axle end has a hex wrench fitting (5mm?) to hold the axle stationary while the axle end cap is turned with a common open end wrench (17mm?). On other mavic freehub systems the cassette can remain on the FH body during this.
But to answer my comment, what did you turn to tighten the cassette? I should try to find the Mavic service instructions, maybe later. Andy
But to answer my comment, what did you turn to tighten the cassette? I should try to find the Mavic service instructions, maybe later. Andy
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Again my memory is not solid but I believe the RH axle end has a hex wrench fitting (5mm?) to hold the axle stationary while the axle end cap is turned with a common open end wrench (17mm?). On other mavic freehub systems the cassette can remain on the FH body during this.
But to answer my comment, what did you turn to tighten the cassette? I should try to find the Mavic service instructions, maybe later. Andy
But to answer my comment, what did you turn to tighten the cassette? I should try to find the Mavic service instructions, maybe later. Andy
Thanks for all your help. To tighten, I used a standard 17mm socket on the cassette side while holding the other side with a 13mm wrench. Of course this was not ideal as I could only tighten until the cassette side nut became flush with the ring with the 14 prongs as I did not have the specialised cassette socket. See attached images.
I do think you are correct that the center of the 17mm nut I tightened could be held with an allen key or a hexagonal socket, but I did it the way explained above.
I heald the part circled and pointed to with a 13mm wrench. It is a round piece with two flat sides which were easy to hold on to
While spinning this piece with a 17mm socket. Worked well until it was flush with the cover which has the 14 pronges. Definently didnt make it to the reccomended 40nm of torque
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Tell me about it. Its difficult to solve even while being there. My lack of specialized tools is not helping either.
Could you specify what it is?
Thanks
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Is the part not going in, just slightly out of round? If it is rotated, is it just slightly narrower?
If it was me, and I tried everything, and could not get anything to work, and it is only a very tiny amount, like you said, I would use a file to fix it. Try all other options first.
If it was me, and I tried everything, and could not get anything to work, and it is only a very tiny amount, like you said, I would use a file to fix it. Try all other options first.