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Seriously disappointed with R8000. FD trimming hell!

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Seriously disappointed with R8000. FD trimming hell!

Old 08-16-20, 04:39 PM
  #26  
shelbyfv
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If this bump brings any of the FD gurus back, I'd appreciate you taking a look at my thread. https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...-speed-fd.html It didn't get much response and I know my description of the question wasn't great but the best I could do. Anyway, it's not about setup procedure, more about how it works.
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Old 08-16-20, 09:06 PM
  #27  
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Hi all,

Well this a timely thread. I have spent this weekend installing a Shimano Ultegra R8000 groupset on a Giant TCR. The front derailleur is the R8000. I'm running 52./36 chain rings and an 11--30 cassette. All new parts and a new Ultegra 11 speed chain. I will be the first to admit I'm no professional bike mechanic, but know my way around the basics and collected a good set of tools, and good at read and follow instructions. In my opinion, the Shimano R8000 Front Derailleur Dealer Manual, is excellent. I installed the FD per the instructions in the Shimano Dealer manual. I have spent many hours this past weekend attempting to properly setup the FD. I have been unable to setup the FD without either significant chain rub on the big or small ring, i.e. perfect small ring, chain rub on big ring, and vice-versa. I have followed the step-by-step instructions meticulously, alignment with front chain ring, using the small screw to bring FD cage back into alignment with chain ring, H and L screws set per the instructions, etc. etc.
Considering that I could have missed a step, this morning I removed the FD and started the setup all over from the beginning, same results. I have verified the cable tension marks were aligned with the the STI shifter in the top trim position. No better on second attempt.
I have a couple of questions.
When attaching the cable to the FD and removing any slack, does it matter what position the STI shift lever is set to? This is before setting the top trim and aligning the cable tension marks in following steps. Or should I be attaching the cable and removing slack with the STIL shift lever already in the top trim position. The DM does not indicate which position for removing slack, attaching cable and setting tension, unless I missed it or so obvious maybe not worth mentioning, but for a noob like myself...
On my setup I noticed that after trying some different approaches I discovered the following. When setup per the instructions, setting the top trim moves the cage an expected amount, however when setting the bottom trim the cage does not appear to move at all, perhaps a very slight, apparently ineffective amount.
Any idea?? Thought, comments, suggestions, critiques, appreciated and encouraged.
One more thing is a defective STI shift lever a possibility worth considering. I believe Shimano has a high level of quality control and would think this would be unlikely.
Is it possible that given the gearing I'm running that certain cross-chain combinations will simply not be possible without chain rub?

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by City Guy; 08-16-20 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 08-17-20, 05:45 AM
  #28  
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When attaching the cable the outer plate of the FD should be parallel to the big ring. This is still the trim position used for previous settings.


Also, they apparently expect rubbing in the small ring and as many as four smallest cogs. If something needs to be sacrificed it should be that.
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Old 08-17-20, 08:03 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by City Guy
Hi all,

Well this a timely thread. I have spent this weekend installing a Shimano Ultegra R8000 groupset on a Giant TCR. The front derailleur is the R8000. I'm running 52./36 chain rings and an 11--30 cassette. All new parts and a new Ultegra 11 speed chain. I will be the first to admit I'm no professional bike mechanic, but know my way around the basics and collected a good set of tools, and good at read and follow instructions. In my opinion, the Shimano R8000 Front Derailleur Dealer Manual, is excellent. I installed the FD per the instructions in the Shimano Dealer manual. I have spent many hours this past weekend attempting to properly setup the FD. I have been unable to setup the FD without either significant chain rub on the big or small ring, i.e. perfect small ring, chain rub on big ring, and vice-versa. I have followed the step-by-step instructions meticulously, alignment with front chain ring, using the small screw to bring FD cage back into alignment with chain ring, H and L screws set per the instructions, etc. etc.
Considering that I could have missed a step, this morning I removed the FD and started the setup all over from the beginning, same results. I have verified the cable tension marks were aligned with the the STI shifter in the top trim position. No better on second attempt.
I have a couple of questions.
(1) When attaching the cable to the FD and removing any slack, does it matter what position the STI shift lever is set to? This is before setting the top trim and aligning the cable tension marks in following steps. Or should I be attaching the cable and removing slack with the STIL shift lever already in the top trim position. The DM does not indicate which position for removing slack, attaching cable and setting tension, unless I missed it or so obvious maybe not worth mentioning, but for a noob like myself...
On my setup I noticed that after trying some different approaches I discovered the following. When setup per the instructions, setting the top trim moves the cage an expected amount, (2) however when setting the bottom trim the cage does not appear to move at all, perhaps a very slight, apparently ineffective amount.
Any idea?? Thought, comments, suggestions, critiques, appreciated and encouraged.
One more thing is a defective STI shift lever a possibility worth considering. I believe Shimano has a high level of quality control and would think this would be unlikely.
Is it possible that given the gearing I'm running that certain cross-chain combinations will simply not be possible without chain rub?

Thanks in advance.
(1) yes it does. Lever should be in what's called "T-Trim" position (ie, lever should be released from the top position down to T-trim position)
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFD001-02-ENG.pdf (page 18)
(2) check your cable tension at the correct trim position
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Old 08-17-20, 09:35 AM
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Thank you
back to it after work today
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Old 08-17-20, 09:42 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by City Guy
Thank you
back to it after work today
before you do anything, check that the FD cage is parellel with the big chainring. This also plays a role in the chain rubbing or not rubbing.
With R8000, even a minor adjustment will mean alot as tolerance is much tighter than the 10speed stuff.
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Old 08-17-20, 06:15 PM
  #32  
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Unfortunately the only way to figure this thing out is to try, try, try again. Had another wrench tell me he was unable to explain it over the phone, but told me to stop thinking about the new design in the same way they have worked for decades. As soon as I did that, it simply clicked and now am able to adjust them. Try, try, try again.
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Old 08-17-20, 08:01 PM
  #33  
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I must have gotten lucky because I set up my FD-5801 with no real idea what I was doing and don't have any problems. Someone suggested chainstay length matters; my chainstays seem to be about 415mm. But I just looked at my bike and I'm wondering if seat tube angle matters too. The steeper the seat tube, the more horizontal the cage will sit, which means more of the chain is "covered" by the derailleur.
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Old 08-23-20, 08:04 PM
  #34  
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Update

Hi

I worked through the Shimano Dealer Manual carefully, and again setup the Ultegra front derailleur step-by-step. Shifting while the bike mounted on workstand appears ok, except for some cross-chain combinations that cause chain rub.
Small chainring (36) and the two smallest rear sprockets cause chain rub, but third sprocket is ok with small chainring. All other combinations work fine. I road tested the bike this afternoon with same results.
When chain is on large chainring (52) and largest rear sprocket (30), there is no chain rub on the derailleur cage, but chain definitely makes noise, but I checked the distance between chain and derailleur cage, and confirmed about 0.5 mm clearance. So just chain noise.
So overall working as expected, just not with a couple of the cross-chain combinations that I would not use.
Thanks for input everyone...
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Old 08-23-20, 09:21 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by City Guy
Hi

I worked through the Shimano Dealer Manual carefully, and again setup the Ultegra front derailleur step-by-step. Shifting while the bike mounted on workstand appears ok, except for some cross-chain combinations that cause chain rub.
Small chainring (36) and the two smallest rear sprockets cause chain rub, but third sprocket is ok with small chainring. All other combinations work fine. I road tested the bike this afternoon with same results.
When chain is on large chainring (52) and largest rear sprocket (30), there is no chain rub on the derailleur cage, but chain definitely makes noise, but I checked the distance between chain and derailleur cage, and confirmed about 0.5 mm clearance. So just chain noise.
So overall working as expected, just not with a couple of the cross-chain combinations that I would not use.
Thanks for input everyone...
Big-big combo will almost always always make noise on a road bike. Reason is chainstays are too short, thus creating a steep chainline angle. This is not the case for mtb bikes because they have much longer chainstays. Personally, I try to avoid big-big for prolong period. I only stay in big-big to power through a short hill or kicker. If the climb is more than a minute, I probably get out of big-big by shifting into the smaller chainring.
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