Cyclcist11023131

I have been up for 73 straight hours. My Dad was dumped off at my home after a back surgury. My sister told me that he had long term care insurance. Couldn't find it. So they dumped him. I am not a doctor. He requires care every twenty minutes. He has a broken back and two broken ribs. He is 88. He is on bad shape and I don't know what's wrong.
In order to avoid having to bring him to one hospital so he could be transported to his hospital, half mile further I carried him to my truck and raced him to his hospital
Turns out he is bleeding internally. I start catching crap about how I should have recognized the signs. What signs? I'm am not a trained medical person. I didn't even get a list of what to look for. I didn't get his medicine or diapers or bedding for the hospital bed they delivered. Plus the bed broke in the first hour. Neither going up or down. I couldn't leave to get the things he needed.
Done griping. Not really a bike story except I have not been able to ride. The point is Get Long Term Care Insurance. This experience drained my entire savings account in the first couple of weeks. Many costs doubled or tripled because of mismanagement. Things have to work in a row if not drivers wait and the meter rolls. 300 to 500 hundred a trip. 400 a day for care facility he stayed in before his surgury. All this would have been avoided with insurance. Dad was sure he was covered but we can't find any record if it. By the way his medical provider is Kaiser. Not happy with them.He paid into their fund for forty years. I feel they just abandoned him. Please don't let this happen to you or yours.

jhazel

I'm so sorry for your troubles and your dad's. If he remembers the insurance company or agent who wrote the insurance, you might be able to trace it. Almost all of the long term care policies I know require that you pay premiums until you become eligible for benefits, so if there is a policy, you may be able to find premium payment records. Good luck!

canklecat

It's exhausting. Including going days with little or no sleep. Been there, done that, for three consecutive older family members for the past 25 years. I became the designated caregiver by default because of my background in nursing. At 59, it's not going to get any easier for me. Last week I barely slept some days, usually a nap for a couple of hours here and there.

And family are often happy to let someone else handle it with little or no offer of assistance or relief. Even social workers are of limited help. Recently one gave me her card which seemed to promote some sort of service for caregivers. Mistakenly thinking it was useful I called. Turns out they're only offering "coping skills". After doing this for 25 years I don't need coping skills or a group to vent frustrations. I need actual help. Although it does kinda feel good to vent, without actually accomplishing anything, I'd rather use my spare time to ride my bicycle than mope around a group therapy session.

My younger brother is dead, as are all my grandparents on all sides of the family and my dad. My kids are no-shows. They were around only when there was something to be gained -- someone to pay college tuition, car notes, whatever.

The most exhausting has been my mom, due more to her increasing dementia than her physical disabilities and ailments. She's completely unpredictable, appearing perfectly okay some days and other days like a spilled box of Fruit Loops. My grandparents, whom I looked after on separate occasions between 1990 and 2004, had some serious physical disabilities but were generally mentally sharp until closer to the end when they became a bit fuzzy. And they lived 2-3 years after I moved closer to look after each, 10 years apart.

My mom is 78, has been steadily but erratically declining mentally for 10 years, yet could live another 10-20 years and outlive me. We finally talked last night about making other arrangements, either assisted living or seeing if we can qualify for more in-home assistance. I've been unable to get any work done on a freelance basis (various stuff, ranging from photography/writing, editing to customer service from home) because she has no concept of time or compartmentalization. This weekend I tried to work in my home office on the phone but she interrupted every 5 minutes. So I can't work until we get, basically, a mom-sitter.

And unlike my grandparents, with whom I could discuss long term arrangements, financial stuff, etc., there's never any finalizing of arrangements with mom. She won't remember what we discussed last night. I have to catch her on a good, relatively clear day, to authorize permanent power of attorney. We've already done that for her medical treatment and banking, but her days of clarify are so intermittent and unpredictable that we haven't finished everything.

Back to you...

Depending on your dad's finances and property he may be eligible for Medicare and/or Medicaid and subsidies from the state. It's really tricky learning all the available subsidies and programs. For example, here in Texas, my mom's Medicare supplements are paid for either by the state or federal government, or both.

We didn't learn some of this until a couple of years ago. By then my $15,000 in savings was drained paying for whatever expenses weren't covered by Medicare. For years she'd been paying more out of pocket than necessary. But the supplements change every year. Last year WellCare was the best value. This year it's Aetna. But WellCare offered better customer service, while Aetna is an impersonal labyrinth. Fortunately we have a good insurance agent who's well informed. And his commission is also paid through Medicare/Medicaid subsidies, so mom isn't out of pocket for that expense either.

There are also in-home services for visiting nurses (RNs), skilled aides and unskilled aides. Skilled aides can handle things like wound care, bandage/dressing changes, etc. They may do personal hygiene but not always. And they usually don't do any housekeeping, laundry, etc. Unskilled aides can help with housekeeping, laundry and bathing or personal hygiene, but not wound care/bandage changes, etc.

These are usually administered through private contractors, and some are better/worse than others. Mom lost her funding for in-home services a couple of years ago and by then I was actually glad to be rid of them for awhile. The RNs were fine but the unskilled aides were undependable and I had to watch them carefully to be sure they actually showed up and stayed the full shift, didn't help themselves to mom's prescription pain relievers, etc. So even with in-home aides I couldn't work outside the home. Many times I'd find out they left as soon as I did, working only an hour or so of their 4-hour shifts. Even when I specified they didn't need to do anything but keep an eye on mom, make sure she didn't fall or wander outside the apartment and get lost. It was infuriating.

Best wishes. It's a tough job.

Garfield Cat

Find out who prepared your Dad's tax returns. Long term care premiums are deductible and the tax preparer just might know the agent, or the document that shows the premiums paid.

Wildwood 

Get a social worker involved. If you can find a decent one that is not overworked beyond belief.
Veteran?
There are lawyers who specialize in Seniors. Maybe a quick & free consult?

Many seniors today are maybe 2 or 3 major medical procedures away from bankruptcy without total insurance coverage. All this living longer has downsides.

edit: I have a f-i-l, 80yo, lives independently alone, 1000+ miles from relatives. Has bad back, bad cars, bad habits, minimal income. Lots of pain meds. Still thinks he can ride a Harley even following 2nd hand/wrist surgery. He is a timebomb waiting to create problems for many people. Stubborn old man syndrome run amok by tolerant indecisive step-children. It's messy, but can only get worse. I worked in senior assisted living my last 10 earning years - have seen the family disasters so many times it makes you cry. Private industry has no heart, the need so great, the cost so unrealistic. Even LTC insurance policies have limitations.

Good Luck.

OldTryGuy

I am saddened to read about such instances. My FIL dealt with 5 years of Alzheimer's plus additional issues and the pancreatic cancer took him in 5 weeks after dx.

I have prostate cancer and other issues. RIGHT NOW, I am fortunate to have quality of life. I just now received Sunday delivery of "FINAL EXIT" I will not require LTC----PERIOD!!!

Gresp15C

If nothing else, you can get copies of tax returns from the IRS, through their website.

BobbyG

I wish I knew how to help. I just wanted to express my sympathy since my wife and I are the primary caregivers to my mother-in-law, daughter and for a few weeks, my grand-daughter. (grand-daughter is fine now)

Unfortunately that has been our experience.

DiabloScott

Checking in to say I have LTC insurance, and both my parents are healthy and of sound mind.

I consider myself lucky.

Cyclcist11023131

Thank you so much for your advice. Forty years as a. Contractor in OC has taught me to seek different points of view, weigh the options and do something. I called one of my customers, a lawyer, and evidently powerful force. Things happened immediately. Doctor showed up, hospital administrator showed up. Pops was getting care. My Dad was bleeding internally from his operation. He was low in Oxygen, and had Anemia. That is how they discharged him, 30 minutes after surgury. Hint: Don't be available so patient has some time in Post-op-RN.advice
He was bussed around in transports for surgury that didn't happen, left outside my house in an ambulance for five hours, given blood thinner by mistake right before surgery, the list goes on. I just can't imagine running a business like that. Much less treat human beings like this. Again thank you it really helped give me some direction to go, I'm up for whatever I can do for my Dad, who taught me to live my life without having to apologize to anybody for anything I have done. And to be legal in everything I do. Rare for a contractor. Hard to compete when you tell the truth. I could sure use a ride....

2 Piece

Why didn't you apply for Medicaid?? Your fathers total assets have to be less than a couple thousand dollars to qualify but his medical care will be taken care of.

linberl

Your situation brings up an important point. As our population ages, it is going to be critical that children of aging parents access information and resources BEFORE something bad happens. I know it's hard to sit down and think about this, but we all are going to need services and medical care before we die. As seniors/parents, we need to do what we can to make this easier on our adult kids. I send my son an updated document every other month with info on where I have accounts (no account #'s, those are in a location in the house he knows about and also in a safe deposit box in case of fire), and what personal assets I have that are of value (art, jewelry, etc.). He also knows where my will is, and my medical forms and insurance forms. I added the personal assets when I realized he was likely to just hold a huge garage sale after I die and take ten bucks for stuff I have that is quite valuable because he had no idea what it was! I am fortunate to have LTC insurance and that info, along with everything else, is accessible to him in print and digital format.
My son has taken the time to find out what resources there are for HIM when the time comes that he might need advice or help in dealing with me. We've had discussions about what we both want. There is no guarantee - I could feel fine one day and then be incapacitated the next.
Don't wait - talk to your family members, create asset and insurance logs, and make sure your kid(s) know there are resources out there so they don't have to deal with everything on their own. How many young people even know that such a thing as Adult Day Care exists?
Don't wait. Don't procrastinate. No one wants to be a burden on their children.

OP - I hope things work out better for you and you get some assistance.

John E

I hope you have alerted your family regarding your wishes, so that you are not given care beyond what you want. (The health system's default is to keep everyone alive as long as possible.) Faced with a diagnosis of terminal lung cancer as his brother -- my father -- was suffering through the final throes of pancreatic cancer, my uncle moved from Arizona to Oregon because the latter state gives terminally ill patients at least some control over their own lives, without loved ones having to worry about being prosecuted for aiding and abetting a suicide. When following instructions given in "Final Exit," make sure you do not expose your friends and relatives to potential very serious legal problems, as in Barbara Mancini's case.

OldTryGuy

for your concern/advice and YES matters have been put in place including relocation if/when necessary in the future. For those of us who truly believe in the control of our own destiny it is mandatory to have all T's crossed and i's dotted. Frank discussions with loved one's are a priority to having them understand desires and wishes.

NealH

Nothing wrong with keeping your father at home and hire an aid. He will likely be much happier there than in some nursing home. Sometimes you have to put family first over money. But if he needs full time care, then a nursing home may be his only option. As mentioned above, the hospital should have a social worker on staff and you should talk to her/him.

gobicycling

CHECK OUT A LITTLE KNOWN VETERAN'S BENEFIT - IF YOUR DAD QUALIFIES. HE DOES NOT NEED TO BE RETIRED. ALSO AVAILABLE TO SPOUSES.


Long-Term Care Benefits for Veterans and Surviving Spouses | ElderLawAnswers

"Long-Term Care Benefits for Veterans and Surviving Spouses

Long-term care costs can add up quickly. For veterans and the surviving spouses of veterans who need in-home care or are in a nursing home, help may be available. The Veterans Administration (VA) has an underused pension benefit called Aid and Attendance that provides money to those who need assistance performing everyday tasks. Even veterans whose income is above the legal limit for a VA pension may qualify for the Aid and Attendance benefit if they have large medical expenses for which they do not receive reimbursement.
Aid and Attendance is a pension benefit, which means it is available to veterans who served at least 90 days, with at least one day during wartime. The veteran does not have to have service-related disabilities to qualify. Veterans or surviving spouses are eligible if they require the aid of another person to perform an everyday action, such as bathing, feeding, dressing, or going to the bathroom. This includes individuals who are bedridden, blind, or residing in a nursing home."

gobicycling

Long-term care insurance


My wife and I carry LTCI - it escalates on a given scale, and right now would provide $7.000 per month for lifetime for either or both of us, and/or in-home care and assistance at 50% of the above. Also, upon a claim being approved, the premiums for BOTH of us stop. Additionally, we can, by contract, negotiate a special plan to meet our needs.


My sister-on-law (widowed) is in a very nice memory-care unit - and the cost is $7,000 per month

johnu

Bendopolo,
How's dad now?
Good grief what a mess. Sat him in a ambulance for 5 hours out side your house!!!!

My wife and I took out policies a few years back and even thought it hurts to write that check every year....... Stories like this make me thankful I can write that check!

Cyclcist11023131

My Dad is back in intensive care. He was dehydrated, had Anemia, his O2 level was low and he was hemmoraging from his spinal column. That's why he had to defecate every 20 minutes. I didn't know. It seemed like that could be part of recovery. Adjustment to liquid diet. NO, he had to go because he was bleeding inside. I caught hell from the Nurse when she loudly complained that I had missed all the signs. What signs? I didn't know. Never went to Medical School. You are the idiots that dumped an 88 year old man, fresh out of surgury, on his untrained son, with 1 hour notice. "Oh," she slinked away. Things are rolling now. They are doing a perfect job now it seems. Pops has "doubled in size" ( seems like it) ), has his pinkeye looking better and his rashes are dry looking now. So I think his Arrows are pointing up now. Gains are going to be slow. I don't see any fire in his eyes yet. I know he wil better as soon as I hear one of his stories. He is quite the story teller and has lived a colorful life. If he starts to tell one of his storys then I know I will have my only father and best fishing partner on the road back to health.

canklecat

I'm surprised and disappointed the medical staff are treating you this way. In all my years working in hospitals and clinics in patient care, and as a caregiver and medical liaison for my family, I've never encountered that sort of presumptive and abusive behavior from doctors or nurses.

If anything my mom's various doctors and nurses are sometimes too deferential, avoiding confronting her with unpleasant information or even suggesting firm guidelines for participating in her own treatment. I often wish they'd be a bit more emphatic, which doesn't mean unkind of harsh. But my mom enjoys the deferential treatment too much and tends not to listen to instructions, so we have many disagreements over what the doctors and nurses actually said. I've begun recording some appointments on audio or video to play back for mom so she'll believe me when I tell her what the doctors and nurses said.

eja_ bottecchia

@Bendopolo, I have no sage advice to offer up. My Dad is 86 years old and has dementia, so I think I know what you are going through.

You are a GREAT son, pat yourself on the back, you've earned it. Don't let the Kaiser nurses bring you down.

Please if you can at all, go for a ride. Even a short ride. It will do you a world of good. This I know.

johnu

I've heard of hospitals not letting you in if you don't have insurance. The ambulance drivers know the ones and will take you to the one that will accept you.

icyclist 

So why isn't your dad using medicare?

canklecat

The OP's father probably is eligible for Medicare. But it can be very difficult to navigate the bureaucracy on behalf of a parent if he/she hasn't authorized their children or others to do so, well in advance of any disability. Been there, done that, many times.

My grandparents were fortunate to have excellent insurance -- Blue Cross/Blue Shield -- and they were still eligible for Medicare coverage of some costs. But both were extremely stubborn about giving up any control over anything until it was well beyond too late. My grandmother lived another 12 years after my grandfather, and she struggled to keep up with the paperwork burdens he had always handled, yet she never learned any lessons from the experience. She still refused to give up any control, even to my father who was designated as the executor of her estate, yet had limited ability to actually accomplish much because he was in a different state. I was the nearest relative and the actual caregiver, and did most of the leg work and paperwork, yet had very limited authority to make and decisions.

It was a mess. And it never gets any easier.

Despite my mom's friends who are her peers -- same age, longtime friends, who have planned well for their eventual disabilities -- and advice from her many doctors and specialists, including again this week, to relinquish some decisions to me to handle her medical and legal affairs, she keeps finding excuses to delay the process. Yesterday she agreed with everyone during her doctor's appointment, at which I was present, to give me full power of attorney. Today, she's backtracking and implying everyone is plotting to put her "into a home" -- which usually means "a nursing home for lunatics and drooling senile old people".

It ain't easy. I've known trained professional psychologists, psychiatrists and social workers who spent careers specializing in the most difficult cases, and still couldn't cope with their own parents as they aged and became more and more difficult.

Few people are willing to admit they might reach a point where they can't look after themselves and their own business and personal affairs. Even when all the signs are obvious they seem to believe everything will get better.

Cyclcist11023131

I don't know why my Dad is not recieving help from Medi-Care. It might be intertwined with his Cal-Pers.
I tried to set up Power of Attorney but my Dad is on a Morphene drip to control his pain. Not able to give me Power of Attorney according to my Lawyer. To early to ease him off. I Am still making decisions for him on an emergency basis. Have to wait until he is lucid. Hint: get P of A done early and file it away with your insurance papers. All our family exchanged P of A papers last night. Try again today. I feel like a special needs kid in college. Just a blur of unintelligible jibberish with places to sign your name. Even the Hospital Administrator got messed up trying to explain some of this. What is really happening is we are trying to get 3 giant Corporate money machines to work together to heal my Dad. All with novels of leagalese as instructions, written as confusing as possible so you need to hire a lawyer to explain it. So be it. I will go at this with gusto.