Unca_Sam

I'm struggling with a decision and a budget, and I'd like the advice of our members here, maybe support too.

I have a line on what I think is a 1970 Raleigh Super Course in bronze green. Chrome and paint are rough but present. Most of what I think should be OE on the bike is missing. It has what look to be an aftermarket set of chrome 27" wheels with rust and broken spokes, a freewheel with plenty of rust (didn't try turning it); front hub was a Sunshine hub, didn't pay attention to the rear. Nervar square taper cranks with triple chainrings. I didn't disassemble the cranks to be certain, but there were hex bolts where I'd expect the end of a cottered spindle, and no cotter pin. Very rusty Lyotard pedals, rusty seatpost, Selle Royal saddle, Weinmann center pull brakes and lever, right lever is MIA, and GB stem. None of this is a deal-breaker for me, I knew I was looking at a rusty hulk with plans for a cheap fixie conversion.

Then I saw the fork, which didn't look perfect. I used a straight edge and confirmed that, yes, the fork has a slight rear tilt. Close inspection showed a dimple the size of the tip of my little finger in the head tube, and bulges behind the lugs on the bottoms of both the top tube and the down tube. This frame had a crash. I walked away, but asked around the bike shops in the area and found a framebuilder that quoted a reasonable, sub-$100 price to put the frame in his rack and force the frame and fork back into alignment! The repair plus the cost of the bike and the items I'll need to build up a single-speed/fixed joyrider puts me over the $300 budget I've allowed. That's using used cranks, reusing the front hub and brakes, building two 700c wheels with NOS box section rims and a new fixed/free hub (just about the cheapest I can find). Not included are the sprocket, chainring, or freewheel, or tubes and other consumables (I might have an acceptable set of 700c tires already).

Is a crashed but repairable 1970 Super Course worth $100 with rough paint and chrome?

Edited:
What other frames can I look for with a shorter wheelbase? OEM green paint preferred.

BFisher

This might be best asked in the appraisal section.

It may be worth it to someone, but not to me. Plenty of other options out there that aren't in poor condition.

himespau 

I don't know, that sounds like it'll end up being more than it's worth to me - but that's how I end up on all of my projects, so it all turns on how badly you want it (and want it now).

gugie 

For $100 you might find one that isn’t bent. What size?

Hudson308 

I'm usually the guy who takes the stuff no one wants and brings it back to life. In this case however, I would walk away. For $300 you can find a mint Super Course, or for half that you can find one in much better shape. Just say no.

Unca_Sam

I'm average, 20.5 to 21.5 or 53-55. This is a 21.5.

tgenec86

$100 for a rough Super Course frame would be a good deal. $100 for a crash damaged "might be a Super Course" is not. Steel isn't too hard to straighten, but to bend the head tube that must have been a pretty hard hit. I've had frames straightened where the stays were off, but unless it were a rare and valuable frame a damaged head tube would be a trip to the scrap metal bin.

Unca_Sam

I set the budget based on what I'd be able to buy a brand new fixed/free bicycle. The arbitrary limit is that I'm looking for a green bike. Not matte green or OD green, but the greens that were common in the 70's, like Raleigh's bronze green. In truth, even under budget the build would likely cost me $350-400, but I'm not looking into that too hard because at the end I'd have something I built, not bought. To avoid shocking the sensibilities of the patrons on this forum, I'd set my sights on a 'junker' for a conversion; a bike that would turn into 'Theseus'' bike if it was restored. This one seemed to be a good fit, aside from the crash damage.

Unca_Sam

No, it said super course on the frame. The maybe was the year, since I'd expected the 1970 to have cottered cranks, and I couldn't get the serial number to make sense using CudaK's website. It's not unreasonable to expect the bike was rode hard and had parts replaced as needed, since it's 13 years my senior if it's a 1970.

francophile 

Walk away. For the money and effort you'll put into that, you can have a more-intact, undamaged and better-shape bike for just as much (if not a touch more) money. You just need to keep your eyes peeled.

Like this complete and all-original nice Claud Butler I just snagged for $125 a week or so ago after it made it through an entire auction cycle w/o any bids. https://www.ebay.com/itm/274082397731 (should be here Thursday)

Too many fish in the sea, unless you have a specific emotional bond to that specific frame, model and color, whatever. But even then, you'd be amazed at what you can find on BF, on eBay, Craigslist, OfferUp, etc. I regularly see SC pop up on Atlanta CL, but a lot of times they're not listed with "Super Course", just "old Raleigh" or "vintage Raleigh". Sometimes Raleigh is spelled wrong - sometimes something simple like 'Raliegh', other times it's atrocious like 'Rawlee'.

Good luck! But yeah, don't pay more than the frame (minus fork) is worth. Which, IMO, is abour $20 in good shape, which it sounds like the one you're spying is in poor shape!

francophile 

And for what it's worth, I just hit the index on CL for all Ohio pages. These aren't quite your size or color but just to make a point...

$90 SC complete in awesome orange: https://dayton.craigslist.org/bik/d/...017127939.html
Really nice candy cane color SC Mk2 complete: https://sandusky.craigslist.org/bik/...992720199.html

ryansu

I would say in these days of soft vintage bike market plus the fact that its winter and stuff tends to sit I would hold out for a better deal, for your $300 budget I think you should be able to find much better candidates and hey the search is half the fun right? Your instinct was to walk away and I think that served you well.

francophile 

I wasn't going to be the one to say this but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking the same.

The market has definitely softened up the last 24-36 months and any of us that have been actively selling year-in/year-out the last 8-10 years have watched it dry up, save for a few niche bikes here and there. I'm selling stuff for half what I was 5 years ago and needing to wait 2-3 full listing periods on CL before things actually sell. What I'm finding is timing is everything. First it needs to be the right season to ride. Second, I have 8 universities within 6 miles of my house, so when kids are leaving a semester it's a buyer's market and when they're starting a semester, it's a sellers market. If you can be hip to either of those, and use keyword alerts on services like OfferUp and CL, you can score. Just know, you're not the only one using those exact same features, so you need to be ready to move

Unca_Sam

I don't have a thing for the super course, it just happens to check items off the evaluation checklist: Cr-Mo frame, lugged construction, sufficient production (not rare) fairly common in the color of choice (green). I know of a Schwinn varsity nearby in green, and passed it up because the color is the only thing going for it on that list. There are better lighter frames made since, but none common in green (to my limited knowledge, I go by what's listed for sale). There was a too big bike polo frame I wouldn't feel bad about repainting for too much too far south, but it at least had track ends!

I'd considered a Raleigh Technium for the build, before I listened to my Id and decided that I really wanted a quality frame in a handsome green.

USAZorro

Keep looking. You can surely find a similar bike that's not going to require much beyond tube-tires-cables and brake pads for $100 - $150.

francophile 

It may be worthwhile to cough up 1 months (or is 3mo the least?) membership dues just to post a "WTB: 54cm +/- 1cm frame in copper-green color"

I can't imagine nobody on this forum has one. You may also want to look at the stickied "Thread doesn't fit" thread. Find the spreadsheet and flip through it, you may see something you like and/or want.

wrk101

Rusty crashed bike missing most of its original parts = worthless. Orange SC above is pretty nice, bar end shifters plus leather saddle cover the selling price.

+100 I've been actively selling vintage bikes for the last 12 years. Market has softened up a lot in the last three years. I did sell two bikes last week, they sold for about HALF of what I would have gotten 5 years ago.

Curiously to me at least, the price of project bikes has gone up while the price of finished ready to ride bikes have gone down.

I'm doing a lot more selling of parts now, but they need to be high end parts.

I have bought crashed bikes solely to harvest parts and done very well with them. Crashed frame and fork go to metal recycle.

3alarmer 

...pretty much this.

Slightspeed

For what it's worth, a couple years ago my bro in law found this 1973 Super Course frame in a pile of scrap metal bikes. I didn't know much about them, but the ugly 531 frame seemed pretty light and had nice Capella lugs, so I took it on as a project. The mechanical bits were easy. With help by lurking on Bikeforums, I decided to build it up as an Eroica bike, suited to my needs, rather than as a museum restoration. I've way more into it than its "worth", more in paint and decals than your $300 budget, but what a great ride. Deals are out there, how much you are willing to spend is up to you. I'm happy with my build, and loving the ride.

Frame, as found in a back alley, stuck seat post, cracks on seat stay caps, incorrect fork. The ugly paint actually protected the chromed rear stays.

Same bike on a recent gravel ride.

A '78 Super Course, found on local CL for $20...

...also turned into a great ride, put together from mostly spare parts I had laying around. Still dithering on re-paint or not.

nlerner

Fwiw, the SuperCourse isn't cromo steel but single-gauge Reynolds 531 in the main tubes and hi-ten steel elsewhere.

Put me in the camp of not worth it. The most recent SuperCourse frameset that moved through my fleet ('73 in bronze green with Capella lugs) cost me $14.50 (a seller sold me two frames for $29). That's not to say you'll find the same smokin' deal, but Raleigh pushed out many thousands of these bikes to the US, and lots are still out there for small money.

Unca_Sam

Of course, Reynolds 531 is Mn-Mo, not the later Cr-Mo ersatz tubing. The only saving grace with the frame is that the PG tubing is a better candidate for 'stretching' than DB, said the frame builder.

3alarmer 

.
...they're swell bikes, much underappreciated. There are still plenty of them around with fewer risks and requiring less input. You can't save them all, so it's often better to triage for those most likely to survive.

Unca_Sam

I know, I know. I should present myself for duty at the local bike co-op and scope out the hulks that pass through there.

...this is really like a less intense version of heartbreak isn't it?! I'm sitting on my barstool crying into my beer about the one I let go...

Unca_Sam

I appreciate the confirmation of my choice from all of you. A crashed $20 rusty crusty bike, even repaired at $75, is still too much to sink into a common frame. If anyone wants to share common short wheelbase frames I can search for (preferably in green, but a repaint is possible if the price is right). Is there such a thing as a common short-wheelbase frame?

Thanks everyone, for cheering me up!

3alarmer 

...you don't actually need to volunteer to scan the merch. I pulled a Super Course bike out of the stuff running through mine, here. I think it only cost me a hunnert buck some years back, which was OK by me because it was virtually unmolested. I bought another blue one off the CL, that had lost its decals, but still not a bad deal at $ 175.