130mm for a 126mm hub frame
03-26-24, 01:18 PM
#126
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I don't think anyone knows what you're arguing about anymore.
That said, I will continue to use my frame alignment gauge and dropout alignment tools to assure parallel dropouts whenever I cold-set a frame, and you can attempt to use your metrology tools to do the same. It's a win-win-win!
That said, I will continue to use my frame alignment gauge and dropout alignment tools to assure parallel dropouts whenever I cold-set a frame, and you can attempt to use your metrology tools to do the same. It's a win-win-win!
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03-26-24, 01:31 PM
#127
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Recognizing the major participants, I didn't follow the last three pages. 
However, I've done a half dozen of these w/o issue. The steel frames got checked with the derailleur hanger tool, a good practice with old frames in general. The aluminum Cannondales just worked w/o additional drama. Obviously any frame could have been whacked at some point but if you start with a straight frame you are unlikely to need more than just pushing the wheel in. Hope this helps.
However, I've done a half dozen of these w/o issue. The steel frames got checked with the derailleur hanger tool, a good practice with old frames in general. The aluminum Cannondales just worked w/o additional drama. Obviously any frame could have been whacked at some point but if you start with a straight frame you are unlikely to need more than just pushing the wheel in. Hope this helps.
03-26-24, 03:10 PM
#128
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Recognizing the major participants, I didn't follow the last three pages. However, I've done a half dozen of these w/o issue. The steel frames got checked with the derailleur hanger tool, a good practice with old frames in general. The aluminum Cannondales just worked w/o additional drama. Obviously any frame could have been whacked at some point but if you start with a straight frame you are unlikely to need more than just pushing the wheel in. Hope this helps.
However, I've done a half dozen of these w/o issue. The steel frames got checked with the derailleur hanger tool, a good practice with old frames in general. The aluminum Cannondales just worked w/o additional drama. Obviously any frame could have been whacked at some point but if you start with a straight frame you are unlikely to need more than just pushing the wheel in. Hope this helps.
03-26-24, 04:15 PM
#129
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Just the derailleur hanger. I've never had an issue with dropout alignment but my sample is small. I had a steel frame with mashed in drive side stays but even that dropout was OK after the stays were corrected. Again, I think odds are good OP can do what he envisions w/o problems.
03-26-24, 05:43 PM
#130
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As I said in this thread 2 weeks ago, I did this 20 years ago on a bike and it is still like that without problem.
03-26-24, 06:14 PM
#131
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A "superlative" mechanic -- and even many who are not -- can puzzle out that two planes which may, or may not, be angled to each other, are also separated by some number of millimeters. That's very much not rocket science, fella.
A superlative mechanic would recognize that the oft-mentioned dropout alignment tool does not provide a measurement of misalignment, it requires the operator to look at it -- with their eyeballs.
Also, you very recently wrote: "What's "close enough"? Just putting the 130 wheel in the unaltered 126 frame." In which case, you are eyeballing whether the wheel sits appropriately. So apparently, your standard is that anything better than the unaltered 126 frame is just fine.
I've asked, at least twice, for people to take credit for the tolerances which they are able to hold using these crude tools -- but no one has been willing to offer such. The whole point here -- to the degree one exists at all -- has been that you and your acolytes claim dropouts can be aligned to within less than 1/4 degree of perfection with crude hand tools. That's a feat which I would think y'all would want to brag about, but no one seems willing.
Oh look, they are also a superlative metallurgist.
Can we just rewind to the part above where you agree with me, and stop wasting further time?
A superlative mechanic would recognize that the oft-mentioned dropout alignment tool does not provide a measurement of misalignment, it requires the operator to look at it -- with their eyeballs.
Also, you very recently wrote: "What's "close enough"? Just putting the 130 wheel in the unaltered 126 frame." In which case, you are eyeballing whether the wheel sits appropriately. So apparently, your standard is that anything better than the unaltered 126 frame is just fine.
I've asked, at least twice, for people to take credit for the tolerances which they are able to hold using these crude tools -- but no one has been willing to offer such. The whole point here -- to the degree one exists at all -- has been that you and your acolytes claim dropouts can be aligned to within less than 1/4 degree of perfection with crude hand tools. That's a feat which I would think y'all would want to brag about, but no one seems willing.
Oh look, they are also a superlative metallurgist.
Can we just rewind to the part above where you agree with me, and stop wasting further time?
I think you missed that what I agreed with you about was that a stay flexed .25 degrees was going to offset the dropouts the same. Where we differ is your belief that you can bend and reset the stays and only move the dropouts .25 degrees. And what is scary is that you think you can simultaneously bend the stays and dropouts in opposite directions and get the same degree of bend in both. That's like expecting to bend a piece of plastic and stick of gum at the same time and have them come out the same.
03-26-24, 06:24 PM
#132
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I'm afraid you misread that. I was asking if the dropouts failed to align without cold setting under the force of the QR. On most steel frames a properly tightened QR will force the dropouts into temporary alignment, as Shimano intended with 7402 DA 8 speed.
03-26-24, 08:10 PM
#133
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Why is my head still hurting?
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Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
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03-26-24, 11:25 PM
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03-27-24, 07:54 AM
#136
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Ok guys. Enough of the bickering. Anything else to add to the discussion?
03-27-24, 08:10 AM
#137
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