Broctoon

There is a lot of overlap, but you certainly should be ready to use the full range of gears.

Here’s what I do:

I usually start out on my small chain ring. If I’m going up a hill or I know I will not want much speed, I might stay there for a while. In a race, I usually go up to the big ring pretty quickly. With the small ring, I only use my first 4 or 5 (out of 11) cogs—the largest ones. And with the large chainring I only use the eight or nine smallest cogs. Because of the overlapping ratios, there is no need to ever be in a largest-largest or smallest-smallest combo.

Unless I’m pulling a trailer or starting out on a steep hill, I start on my third or fourth largest cog and work from there, often going to the fifth or sixth pretty soon, along with shifting up to the large chain ring.

I seldom use my largest cog, but I’m really glad it’s there for the steep climbs I occasionally encounter.

I likewise seldom use my smallest or next to smallest cog, only if I’m descending a steep hill and really feel like pushing.

Therefore, most of my riding is on either the small chain ring and the second, third, or fourth cog or else the large ring and third through ninth cogs.

On my bike, it is easiest to shift down to the small chain ring when I approach a stop and know I’ll want a lower gear to get started again. Once I’m back up to speed, I can easily go back to the large ring. This works better than shifting two or three cogs for the equivalent ratio change I desire in this situation. Shifting up or down one or two cogs is for fine tuning my cadence while cruising.

In a race, I will likely be on the big chain ring most of the time, but I dang sure go to the small one when there’s a steep hill to climb, and if it’s very steep and/or long, I might also be on my largest cog.

Google Sheldon Brown Bike Gear Calculator, put in your parameters, and it will generate a nice little chart showing all your ratios. You can look at gear inches, meters development, or gain ratios. You can also see your speeds at various cadences.

burnthesheep

Either way…for tri related stuff slowtwitch.com is the place to be instead of BF. If you paced that bike course in Z2 before and after the “ramp” you can afford one or two brief VO2 digs in a triathlon. Just don’t make it a habit.

Maybe not mentioned earlier, but if necessary, paperboy that hill.

wheelreason

Start a race in the small ring? Have things changed that much in 20 years? Does everyone get a trophy?...

seypat

This.

seypat

Good way to get the holeshot and keep the riff raff people behind you.

wheelreason

lol.

merlinextraligh

That will be of some value in getting generally fitter and training yourself for 2 minute efforts, but its not of much help in training for sustained climbing. The 2 minute efforts are not targeting the right energy system. If you want be able to do long climbs, you need to raise your sustainable w/kg. So doing 2x20s on flat ground will actually do more for your ability to do long climbs.

So while short hill repeats have some benefits, and I agree you should do them; that should not be lieu of doing longer intervals aimed at raising ftp, qhich ultimately will do more to help your climbing.

merlinextraligh

Again, this is a way to build power for very short efforts. If your race has a lot of 30 second ramps, it's great. So a really good workout for an undulating crit for example. However if you want to target raising ftp, you want sustained efforts of at least 6 minutes, and preferably 20 minutes, or more.

Here in North Florida, many people do bridge repeats, with climbs of 60-80 vertical feet when getting ready for big mountain rides. Having raced a lot of races with 10,000 feet or more of climbing, living in Florida and worked with professional coaches for years , that has never been the program. In stead we focus on building threshold power through long efforts, such as an hour just below threshold, lots of 20-30 minute efforts at threshold, and some just above threshold. All aimed at pushing up or pulling up FTP. Bottom line, watts are watts, whether the ability to produce them is developed on flat ground or on mountains
My plan is typically supplemented with a few trips to actual mountains when possible, as much as for practice, as training. And we do incorporate short hill climb repeats, but mostly to top off anaerobic power, not as a principal tool to improve sustained climbing.

merlinextraligh

Here is a link to a piece I did years ago, climbing for flatlanders, that elaborates on the above, based on my experience coming from Florida, and years of working with elite professional coaches.

everest challenge x2: Climbing for Flat landers

PeteHski

I do my sustained hill climb training at home using a Wahoo Kickr Smart Bike on simulated mountain cols. it’s an expensive solution, but a relatively cheap Smart trainer would be just as effective.

Broctoon

Yeah, pretty much, in the kind of races I enter.

In the races I've done (admittedly not very many) a couple seconds right at the start mean nothing. We're going to be out there for a while, and there are plenty of chances to pass; no need to strain coming off the line.

GhostRider62

ST is certainly a better place for Tri advice, especially if OP had a PM, HRM, and a basic understanding of training.

But she is in the right place for now.

merlinextraligh

Anything that gets you working at the right power output for the right length of time. I have a similar setup with Swift and a Wahoo smart trainer. I rarely can bring myself to ride it for more than an hour though.

Keefusb

I run DuraAce 7700-7800 components (9-speed) on both of my (older) road bikes. Shimano says you can run up to a 28T low gear in the back, but in actuality you can run a 30T with a short cage rear derailleur. You will need to screw the B-screw all the way in or install a longer B-screw, which is not a big deal.

I installed Stronglight 38T inner chain rings in the front, which are the smallest you can use with a traditional 130 BCD double crankset. I find that a 38/30 is a serviceable lowest gear for all but the steepest climbs. My biggest issue is my own body mass. At 215#, I'm not exactly a lightweight. I would love to get back to my racing weight (185# to 190#), but since I'm in my 60's now, I don't see that happening. I can't believe that 30 years ago I used to fly up hills running a 39/23 lowest gear, and many of the old school front cranks were 53/42.

There has been a lot of movement lately towards compact cranksets and cassettes with low gears in the 30's, but body mass and CV fitness are still king.

cyclezen

Agree with most of that. Use whats available... Even when you look at the Continental development of young riders, many young riders can't get to 'mountains' as often as wanted/needed. Their training/racing is so localized and intensive, that long mountain 'camps' are a rarity, if at all. Yet the Dutch, Belgians and Danes seem to produce some great climbers in their young ranks.
But there is a 'condition' of riding 'climbs' which just can't be substituted by 'flat'/rolling training. (except Smart Trainers...)
Gravity is a force which is rarely available in any other situation, than climbing. It's affect is greater than most wind and rolling resistance combined. You will slow if you stop pedaling on the flat, but no where near as much as on a climb.
Slopes 6% and greater have a large effect on your momentum. AS you get into these steeper zones, each pedal stroke means 'acceleration' and immediate Decel. Acceleration saps 'power' immediately. It's quite obvious that you can't ride up a 7% grade anywhere near as fast as a flat section - that's the effect of Gravity.
Lower gears and increased cadence helps to smooth out that Sine curve of 'accel/deccel', but at the expense of aerobic capacity. The cadence limits are much lower on 'climbing' type riding as compared to spinning on a flatter section, so comparing what one can spin on the flat to what one is able to achieve on a climb is not comparable.
If you want to approximate 'climbing' on a flat stretch, then make sure you're riding into a steady 25-30 mph headwind - that'll work. The effort type and cadence limits will be most closer.
If one can add any amount of 'climbing' into FTP workouts, that certainly won;t hurt in climbing ability.
If one can get to 'climbing', go do them...
Ride On
Yuri

Broctoon

I bought a TACX Neo 2 smart trainer a couple years ago, and it has been a game changer. I always, ALWAYS get a more effective workout on it than I get riding in the real world. Of course, riding outside is more fun, but riding on the trainer is definitely tougher. For working toward fitness goals, the trainer is incomparably better.

genejockey 

Having a smart trainer has allowed me to continue riding through the dark, wet months, so that when Spring comes I'm not 15 lbs heavier and starting from farther behind. And I don't even do structured workouts that much, it's mostly freeriding and races in Zwift. One of the best $300 investments I've ever made. Oh, and you can get them for cheaper on Craigs List or Facebook Marketplace.

Broctoon

I wanted a direct drive as opposed to wheel-on model, and it was not cheap. It's so fun though. I have never done Zwift on it, or anything that involves virtual racing/interaction with other users.

I just use the TACX app (which requires a subscription of $10 per month). I hook it up to my big TV to show scenery of the routes I ride all over the world. The routes are rated as Easy, Moderate, Difficult, Hard, and Extreme, and they're not kidding. Everything above Moderate is very tough for me, and I've never even tried an Extreme route.

They used to have challenges you can take on, like doing a particular five rides in five days, and if you completed one they would send you an actual patch. Not an icon on the screen, but a real fabric patch sent in the mail. I think they've discontinued those.

The TACX Neo has some features that are not particularly useful but make it more fun. Glowing lights shine out the bottom and change color from blue to red (or gradients in between) according to your power output. It also shakes or vibrates according to the simulated road surface you're on, and they've done quite a good job with the realism of this.

genejockey 

I wasn't sure how much I'd like a smart trainer, so I went for the wheel-on Kickr Snap. I'd previously bought dumb trainers, but for me it takes a huge mental effort to keep going on them. I've thought about upgrading to a direct drive trainer, but can't justify it since the Snap works pretty well.

I've tried using Wahoo's "X", which I guess used to be called Sufferfest, but while it was okay for workouts, wasn't engaging for me as a replacement for a ride outdoors.

Bah Humbug

Most triathletes can barely swim. I'm good (or was) by tri standards... and once got yelled at by the lifeguard that I wasn't swimming well enough to be in the deeper section of the roped-off area of the reservoir. After a race where I'd been five times further out. I just have a wonky stroke but can make it work well. Many are just downright dreadful. You can do it.

spelger

Even though i no longer use it i highly recommend the zwift trial.

merlinextraligh

No doubt climbing actual mountains is the best way to prepare for climbing mountains. Raising your ftp on flat workouts will only go so far. Thus, when I was limited to riding in Florida and getting ready for big mountain rides, I still tried to get some rides in the mountains to supplement.

My broader point is that if you don’t have big climbs, you’re better off doing longer flat intervals, than busting short bridge, or parking ramp repeats, as the core of a program aimed at improving your sustained climbing.

PeteHski

I agree, but now Smart Trainers are relatively cheap (Zwift hub, Elite Direto etc) they are a no-brainer for anyone wanting to seriously improve their climbing without actually going to the mountains. I did the Letape du Tour last year and did all my climbing prep on the trainer using Rouvy. I rode all the simulated climbs on the route multiple times and they were spot on. When I rode the climbs for real they felt the same and I even recognised where I was from the scenery. My local climbs are way too short for this kind of prep. I could do hill repeats, but it isn’t the same as a sustained hour long climb.

genejockey 

Makes sense, but I do think the shorter, high intensity hill intervals will help when you hit a steep ramp where you need to just power through it.

VegasJen

So as promised, I'm posting a couple pics. This first one is a Race Lite wheel with a 27 tooth large gear on the cassette. I haven't purchased yet, but I found a Tiagra 30 tooth cassette on Amazon. Should fit, no?


I don't really think this pic will help much but someone above asked if I had any pics of me on the bike. This is the only one I got from Santa Barbara. Don't really know if it will provide any usable information. Unfortunately, they didn't get any of me passing directly by.