Ebikes on bicycle trails and sidewalks
08-21-10, 11:04 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Ebikes on bicycle trails and sidewalks
Is this just where I live? (Ontario). Ebikes are unregulated here, which I have been thinking is a very good thing, since it will encourage people to ride them rather than drive. But lately I see them in places I think they just don't belong. Riding on the grass at the park near the children's playground, on the bicycle trail, on the sidewalk!!! They are silent, and really fast. I am not talking Bionx or other pedal assist motors (I used to have a Bionx), but these bikes where the pedals are just for show and they function like a slowish motorcycle/Vespa style scooter.
I am not loving them at this point.
I am not loving them at this point.
08-21-10, 11:50 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edgewater, CO
Posts: 3,213
Bikes: Tons
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
What kind of speed can these ebikes reach?
In all honesty, if folks using ebikes exercise due caution, they should be allowed on trails. Unfortunately, I don't imagine the people operating the bikes always exercise due caution.
In all honesty, if folks using ebikes exercise due caution, they should be allowed on trails. Unfortunately, I don't imagine the people operating the bikes always exercise due caution.
08-22-10, 07:44 AM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I am not sure how fast they can go, but they go faster than a bicycle does, and under different circumstances (can accelerate fast, or go fast in small areas). I find it wrong that something that is not human powered is permitted on bicycle trails, or that they are riding on the sidewalk or through parks. I am not one for uber safety but I think there is going to be a bad accident at some point caused by one of these things.
08-22-10, 08:50 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I also live in Ontario in a small, economically depressed city and I never even thought about these electric scooter things until I got here but they're everywhere. I almost got smoked by one when I was riding on a bike path and came around a sharp corner on a treed section. There's no way to see around the corner so I always ring my bell before I make the turn so people can hear me but some idiot on a scooter was listening to an Ipod and came around going full tilt and nearly smashed me to pieces.
The city council tried to ban them from bike lanes/paths but there was a huge uproar about it amongst users of these things. I think there's a place for them but that place is not on narrow paths and poorly designed bike lanes shared by pedestrians and cyclists. They also need some degree of licensing for these death traps.
I think that legally they can do up to 45k/m an hour. If they are capable of higher speeds they become motor vehicles.
The city council tried to ban them from bike lanes/paths but there was a huge uproar about it amongst users of these things. I think there's a place for them but that place is not on narrow paths and poorly designed bike lanes shared by pedestrians and cyclists. They also need some degree of licensing for these death traps.
I think that legally they can do up to 45k/m an hour. If they are capable of higher speeds they become motor vehicles.
08-22-10, 09:35 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
^^^
Absolutely should be allowed on paths.
^^^^
Joke machine.
Shouldn't be allowed on the road. Too slow to keep up with traffic, too large to be on a path.
And what is that, a 30 inch Q? The pedals are on there for no other reason than to subvert bike path laws.
08-22-10, 09:40 AM
#6
Surf Bum
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pacifica, CA
Posts: 2,184
Bikes: Lapierre Pulsium 500 FdJ, Ritchey breakaway cyclocross, vintage trek mtb.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
3 Posts
In California, neither of those would be legally allowed to operate on multi-use paths as bicycles or in bike paths or bike lanes. The law defines a bicycle as an exclusively human-powered vehicle and both of the one's pictured are motor-powered.
08-22-10, 09:43 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edgewater, CO
Posts: 3,213
Bikes: Tons
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Is that what we're talking about? Those things should be banned... everywhere.
08-22-10, 09:44 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
Originally Posted by Ca Electric Bike Law--wiki
Electric Bicycles are defined by the California Vehicle Code.[32][33] In summary, electric bicycles are to be operated like conventional bicycles in California. There are several exceptions to this. A person must be at least 16 years old, and anyone riding an electric bicycle must wear a bicycle helmet. The e-bikes must have an electric motor that has a power output less than 1,000 watts, is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on level ground, is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour, operates in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied, or operates in a manner such that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.
Driver's licenses, registration, insurance and license plate requirements do not apply. A motorized bicycle is not a motor vehicle. A motorized bicycle shall only be operated by a person 16 years of age or older. Drinking and driving laws apply. Additional laws or ordinances may apply to the use of electric bicycles by each city or county [34]
Driver's licenses, registration, insurance and license plate requirements do not apply. A motorized bicycle is not a motor vehicle. A motorized bicycle shall only be operated by a person 16 years of age or older. Drinking and driving laws apply. Additional laws or ordinances may apply to the use of electric bicycles by each city or county [34]
08-22-10, 09:47 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Green Valley AZ
Posts: 3,770
Bikes: Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I think low powered electric assist models should be allowed on MUPS if they are used by a person unable to otherwise ride.
08-22-10, 09:50 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
The top bike is very similar to my electric bike. Pedelictic drive--there is a sensor in the bottom bracket, the motor does not run unless you are pedaling and it cuts off after 16-17 mph. Any faster and you have to do it solely on human power.
08-22-10, 09:55 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
I bought mine while recovering from spinal surgery. Since then I've found it to be a fantastic cargo hauler and it has applications well beyond just transportation for the infirm. I'll carry huge loads on it which I could not do (comfortably) on a regular bicycle (with or without the Ti plates in my neck).
08-22-10, 09:59 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
Mostly because we had a group of folks who would constantly argue they were bicycles because they had near non-functioning pedals.
With the exception of the platform pedals, not one part on that machine is common to a bicycle.
Those things can also weigh more than 200 pounds.
08-22-10, 10:48 AM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brussels
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think in the EU these would be classified as mopeds/light scooters, which are generally allowed on bike lanes, but not allowed on MUPs and some separated bike paths. Riding anything like these on the sidewalk would be quite outrageous (riding anything on the sidewalk actually)
08-22-10, 12:37 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248
Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
48 Posts
Don't those stupid ebikers know that this is America. In this is country we drive evrywhere. The bigger the vehicle the more American you are, everyone knows that. We shouldn't be encouraging efficient transportation. We should be banning it.
While were at it we need to get those stupid bicycles off the roads. Those things as constantly getting stuck under SUVs' and causing damage to both the vehicle and the road. I am not against bicycles, after all, this is a bicycle site; but there are parks and paths for playing on them.
Sounds pretty familiar, sounds pretty stupid.
While were at it we need to get those stupid bicycles off the roads. Those things as constantly getting stuck under SUVs' and causing damage to both the vehicle and the road. I am not against bicycles, after all, this is a bicycle site; but there are parks and paths for playing on them.
Sounds pretty familiar, sounds pretty stupid.
08-22-10, 12:53 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Is this just where I live? (Ontario). Ebikes are unregulated here, which I have been thinking is a very good thing, since it will encourage people to ride them rather than drive. But lately I see them in places I think they just don't belong. Riding on the grass at the park near the children's playground, on the bicycle trail, on the sidewalk!!! They are silent, and really fast. I am not talking Bionx or other pedal assist motors (I used to have a Bionx), but these bikes where the pedals are just for show and they function like a slowish motorcycle/Vespa style scooter.
I am not loving them at this point.
I am not loving them at this point.
08-22-10, 12:58 PM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, the ones I am talking about that I have seen on bike trails and sidewalks are the ones like the red one pictured, that look like motorcycles or scooters. The top one pictured is a bicycle with motor assist, totally different. But the ones that look like motorcycles do not function like bicycles, they go too quickly.
I don't agree that they should be banned, I think they are way more efficient than cars. But they should be on the road, or in bicycle lanes along the road, but not on the pathways or sidewalks, ever IMO.
I don't agree that they should be banned, I think they are way more efficient than cars. But they should be on the road, or in bicycle lanes along the road, but not on the pathways or sidewalks, ever IMO.
08-22-10, 01:04 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
About the "only problem" with the Giant Hybrid is that the local bus system doesn't allow bikes with motors to be put on their racks on their buses. Of course I think that it is probably safe to say that not many of the drivers will know that the Giant Hybrid has a motor and would allow it. I mean if the driver asked what was up with the hub all the owner would have to say is that it's a generator for lights.
08-22-10, 01:33 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Yes, the ones I am talking about that I have seen on bike trails and sidewalks are the ones like the red one pictured, that look like motorcycles or scooters. The top one pictured is a bicycle with motor assist, totally different. But the ones that look like motorcycles do not function like bicycles, they go too quickly.
I don't agree that they should be banned, I think they are way more efficient than cars. But they should be on the road, or in bicycle lanes along the road, but not on the pathways or sidewalks, ever IMO.
I don't agree that they should be banned, I think they are way more efficient than cars. But they should be on the road, or in bicycle lanes along the road, but not on the pathways or sidewalks, ever IMO.
08-22-10, 01:38 PM
#19
Senior Member
Nothing motorized allowed on some of the trails around here.
08-22-10, 01:46 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
Here are the specs on a typical one: https://www.valuride.com/ebikes_2008_500t.htm
20 mph max, 150+ pounds.
They are being marketed as bicycles to be used on MUPs.
No tag, no license--ie, post DUI transportation (or a glorified Rascal)
08-22-10, 03:23 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rochester MN
Posts: 927
Bikes: Raleigh Port Townsend, Raleigh Tourist
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
8 Posts
The way I read the Minnesota law both of those qualify as mopeds, which are a subset of motorcycles requiring vehicle registration and driver's license. Minnesota finally got segways and motorized wheelchairs figured out by creating a new class for them but are still working on the motorized foot scooters and golf carts on the road.
08-22-10, 07:50 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
They are too slow to be on the roads given their lack of agility.
Here are the specs on a typical one: https://www.valuride.com/ebikes_2008_500t.htm
20 mph max, 150+ pounds.
They are being marketed as bicycles to be used on MUPs.
No tag, no license--ie, post DUI transportation (or a glorified Rascal)
Here are the specs on a typical one: https://www.valuride.com/ebikes_2008_500t.htm
20 mph max, 150+ pounds.
They are being marketed as bicycles to be used on MUPs.
No tag, no license--ie, post DUI transportation (or a glorified Rascal)
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/HFEBEL%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
And this is one of the web sites that he sent me about it:
Green Flyer Bikes
And it like the others has about a max speed of 20MPH to be considered a "bicycle."
08-22-10, 09:03 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
This is the bike that my friend has:
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/HFEBEL%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
And this is one of the web sites that he sent me about it:
Green Flyer Bikes
And it like the others has about a max speed of 20MPH to be considered a "bicycle."
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/HFEBEL%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
And this is one of the web sites that he sent me about it:
Green Flyer Bikes
And it like the others has about a max speed of 20MPH to be considered a "bicycle."
Ruining a perfectly good moped by under powering it and strapping on those ridiculous pedals, trying to skate the law so they don't have to be tagged or insured (DUI target market).
Makes as much sense as putting a lawnmower engine in a Jeep and calling it a golf cart.
What you end up with is an awkward machine that doesn't preform well on the road and is out of place on a MUP.
We had some guys in Ebikes that kept starting flamewars insisting that those were actually bicycles. That didn't help me liking them either.
Last edited by Allen; 08-22-10 at 09:07 PM.
08-22-10, 09:37 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Honestly, I don't see the problem with electric bikes on paths. Around here, they're limited to a paltry 500W - and since they're only looking at input power, the end result is a bicycle that is, under normal circumstances, a whole lot slower than a serious athlete on a road bike. Also, unlike petrol mopeds, they're not terribly noisy.
On the other hand, I now have an official policy of deliberately opening doors in the way of anyone riding more than 7MPH on sidewalks. I've spent much of the last several months walking with a cane, and now have an intense loathing for the sort of dingleberries who mow down pedestrians.
On the other hand, I now have an official policy of deliberately opening doors in the way of anyone riding more than 7MPH on sidewalks. I've spent much of the last several months walking with a cane, and now have an intense loathing for the sort of dingleberries who mow down pedestrians.
08-22-10, 09:50 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
Honestly, I don't see the problem with electric bikes on paths. Around here, they're limited to a paltry 500W - and since they're only looking at input power, the end result is a bicycle that is, under normal circumstances, a whole lot slower than a serious athlete on a road bike. Also, unlike petrol mopeds, they're not terribly noisy.
On the other hand, I now have an official policy of deliberately opening doors in the way of anyone riding more than 7MPH on sidewalks. I've spent much of the last several months walking with a cane, and now have an intense loathing for the sort of dingleberries who mow down pedestrians.
On the other hand, I now have an official policy of deliberately opening doors in the way of anyone riding more than 7MPH on sidewalks. I've spent much of the last several months walking with a cane, and now have an intense loathing for the sort of dingleberries who mow down pedestrians.