Lars Halstrom

I bought my first road bike in 2017 after several months of researching for what I needed in price components and local availability. Recently I had a noise coming from the rear wheel area. Took it to my LBS and they tuned the rear derailer. That didn't get rid of the noise. So I took it to the bike shop where I bought it that was further away. The mechanic took the rear wheel off and opened up the hub. He was surprised to find it had cup and cone bearings. He found that the cup was pitted and causing the noise. So now the whole wheel has to be replaced essentially. So I looked up the 2017 archived product catalog from their website for my bike. In the specs for the rear hub it says "sealed cartridge bearing". Has anybody else ran into this situation and what did you do about it and results. I'm waiting for the LBS to call me back now. They don't know that the this bike has the wrong bearings in it as advertised, as far as I know.

CliffordK

What brand of hub do you have? What brand of hub was on the spec sheet?

There is a bit of marketing wizardry in which Shimano calls their bearings "sealed", when in fact, it is cup & cones + a good seal.

And, their seals are much better than the seals from 50 years ago... so perhaps that does apply.

If the cone is pitted, that is a quick repair.
If the race is pitted, that may well mean that you ignored a problem for far too long.

However, if the wheel is a high quality wheel, it may still be more cost effective to rebuild the wheel onto a new hub than to replace it.

Lars Halstrom

The wheel is a proprietary brand and the cheapest end of the models for that type of endurance bike. I tried to look up the hub name and it goes only to their website of the bike manufacturer. The noise occurred in the past 3 weeks and I had it adjusted when I found a little play in the rear wheel. That mechanic told me I had sealed cartridge bearings in that hub too. He never opened it up though. I definitely would have done different maintenance intervals on cup and cone had I known that is what I had. This is a $2,400 bike so I doubt they will compete with Enve, Zipp, Mavic or 3T for quality.

Kedosto

AFAIK, just about every mfg has fine print stating (paraphrasing) "we reserve the right to change the specs at any time and without notice."


-Kedosto

Lars Halstrom

I spent some time looking for that and didn't see any statement like that anywhere on their website.

JohnDThompson 

Having worked in bicycle manufacturing, I can say that there are many reasons why a new bike may not exactly match the catalog description: parts shortages, hold-ups in customs, unacceptable quality of delivered parts of the original specification, etc. But between the bike manufacturer and the bike shop, they should be willing and able to put things right for you.

DrIsotope

I bought a Cervelo R3 in 2017-- a 2017 model, which came fitted with a Rotor 3D crank and Shimano 6800 everything else... because it was manufactured in the first part of that year. Models produced later that year came with a full Ultegra 8000 group. Manufacturers make unannounced mid-year changes all the time.

I personally hate cup and cone hubs, so would just replace the wheels, even if the mfr. agrees to replace. Cartridge bearings are nearly maintenance free.

mstateglfr 

It's an entry level wheel...just buy a new one.

I'm shocked that the disclaimer of 'parts may change without notice' wasn't anywhere on the website or brochure 2 years ago...that phrase is listed on seemingly everything I see when it comes into fully spec'd bikes.

It's been 2 years...its an entry level wheel...time to buy another. Entry level wheels are consumable, unfortunately. And it seems like a crapshoot as to if they last or not.

It isn't the shop's fault and if the brand gives you a new wheel that would be a surprise since its 2 years old and there almost for sure is a disclaimer about switching components somewhere.

But there is no harm in asking for a replacement after 2 years of use. Worst case is you have to do what you should do and buy a wheel.

Lars Halstrom

I agree with you DrIsotope. I bought the bike knowing that cartridge bearings would be better for me and my limited funds I have at 70 yeas old. All these endurance models have sealed cartridge bearings for 2019. In 2018 they didn't have my model available.

shelbyfv

So three different mechanics involved? I would ditch the first one, hard to understand how he could "adjust" it and not know if it was cartridge or cup and cone.

Lars Halstrom

After talking to the LBS manager, he said document your issues in an email to him and he would contact the manufacturer. I got a call back from the manager within 15 minutes after I left and he said they are replacing the complete wheel.

JanMM

Very good. And if you can learn exactly what kind of hub the new wheel has, then you can adjust maintenance intervals and processes as appropriate.

Lars Halstrom

The rear hub will be the same cup and cone bearing. I've been looking for guidance on what intervals should I adjust the tension, miles or months. How often to replace the ball bearings. Do you check for wheel play after every ride? I've read that if you wait til you hear or feel something, it's too late. Do you replace the ball bearings whenever you repack fresh grease? Ball bearings become ovalized after awhile. Any other advice?

Lars

JohnDThompson 

Once adjusted properly, the hub should stay adjusted. Quality balls will not ovalize in normal use; there's no reason not to use grade 25 balls. If the axle turns freely and smoothly, there's no compelling reason to repack unless you've been riding in adverse conditions. I like to use white lithium grease, as this makes it quite apparent when the grease has been contaminated, but if you routinely ride in adverse conditions, a marine-grade grease may resist washing out better. Ball bearings, even grade 25 balls, are cheap enough that there's little reason to re-use old balls once you've gone to the bother of repacking.

Lars Halstrom

Thanks John! Living along the ocean waterfront of Puget sound, I'm likely to to be exposed to salt whenever it rains here. Even when the wind blows off the water when it's not raining, my brake rotors can squeal until I clean them off. I have Phil's dark green waterproof grease for ball and roller bearings on hand to use. The converted RR tracks to bike trails have packed pea gravel which can be dusty from Renton to NE Kirkland. Last year I rode 6,000 miles. So what interval would be safe to repack grease and change out ball bearings?

Lars

79pmooney

In almost any manufacturing industry, supply of parts is not a given, especially as the manufactures have gone to "just in time" production (a "revolution" made popular by Toyota). Traditionally, the plants bought up large purchases of parts and material in advance. And wasted huge amounts of facility space storing that stuff, as well as sometimes having to move it to accommodate the next purchase, etc. And the labor of having to find that stuff when it is finally needed. No longer. Now the material and parts are purchased to have arrived just before they are needed. Far more efficient, far less labor. And yes, the buyer doesn't get to ask the supplier to make a run of 3,000 of those items 18 months in advance. Supplier had a hiccup? Well, manufacturer has to make do with something different because the show must go on.

Now - substituting cup and cone for sealed bearings - really not an issue - if the bike shop that assembles the bikes checks the bearings which should entail looking to make sure there is enough grease, adding some if not, and adjusting them because cup and cone bearing are (almost always) supplied too tight (often way too tight!) It is a near given that the shop you bought this bike from didn't do their job and check the bearings. No surprise if they assumed the bearings were sealed.

If you want trouble-free hub bearings. use marine grease, lots. If you pack in so much that it oozes out the first miles, you have a seal that water, dirt and salt cannot get in. If you adjust the cones to just barely remove play when the quick release is tight you should have to do nothing more for a couple of years. Well, maybe a tweak of an 1/8 turn or so after the cone and races have worn in a bit to each other.

I hadn't learned the marine grease trick when I lived in Ballard. Oh well. I have an ancient Campagnolo hub I've been using on commuter wheels for decades. Races got pitted before I learned about that grease. With that grease, they are still running flawlessly. How that works I don't know but I will not complain.

Ben

Lars Halstrom

My endurance adventure bike has thru axles. So what thru axle torque tolerances are needed to have the bearings run smoothly without wheel play? I should probably remove the OEM grease and replace with waterproof grease before damage occurs too. With sealed cartridge bearings, I probably couldn't do this.

Does Shimano or SRAM change parts without notice at anytime?

Lars

Wilfred Laurier

If we are talking about the 2017 Felt VR5, the Felt website has 'spec may change without notice' on the tech spec pages of some bikes, but not on others. And the statement does not seem to appear at all in the 2017 catalogue.
This seems like an oversight rather than a guarantee that the bikes where the statement is not made will never change.

Lars Halstrom

Well the LBS mechanic did an overhaul to the front hub, definitely has cup and cone, 14 3/16" ball bearings on each side. He cleaned off the races to see if there is any pitting. The left side, with the disc rotor, showed one pit about .5-1mm in diameter. He called this minor pitting. He said the ball bearings all look good. So he regreased everything with Phil's waterproof bearing grease and put it back together and adjusted the bearing tension on the right sides cone and locknut. So now I'm wondering if I should replace the left side cone right away. Any advice?

Wilfred Laurier

You should get yourself a set of replacement cones and bearings and the cone wrenches necessary to do the overhaul, and a $5 tub of 'waterproof trailer grease'. Check for bearing looseness occasionally and adjust as necessary. At the end of the season, or any time sooner when you have the wheels off, remove the wheels and check that the hubs feel smooth to spin. IF there is any roughness then consider disassembling, cleaning, and regreasing, and replace any parts as necessary.

On Shimano hubs I have owned, they generally go years without needing more than a minor adjustment or two, but other lower-cost (usually OEM) brands might not be so robust.

63rickert

I have 80 year old cup and cone hubs in regular service. All service parts still available. What will wear out is the spoke holes.

pdlamb

I try to repack my wheel bearings every year, maybe 2-4,000 miles depending on which bike. In your case, between the salt spray and dusty gravel, I think I'd shoot for every six months.

Trakhak

Among the bike shops I've worked in or run, disassembly to check for the presence of sufficient grease was never routinely practiced. In the best-run of those shops, the owner insisted that any such time-consuming, above-and-beyond assembly deviations be written up and charged to the manufacturer at the shop's hourly service rate. It adds up. As another shop owner used to say, "Don't make love to it!"

Andrew R Stewart 

I hope that when the OP's replacement wheel was installed someone took the few minutes to insure that the bearing adjustment was proper. The VAST majority of cup and coned wheels, be they over the counter or OEM, are delivered with way too tight a bearing preload. Add the OP's location in one of the consistently wet cities in the US and it's no wonder that the original hub only lasted a couple of years.

As to spec differences between some chart created often months before the bike left the factory and what was actually available when the bike was being assembled John has it right. Some years we see more of this going on and other years less so. Think of the bike industry like waves being created in a swimming pool from more then two people. The goal is to have all the wave making happen so there's only one visible pattern of wave interaction. But each person has their own variation over time and the communication between the wave sources can be a mixed bag No wonder that sometimes the pool is quiet and other times seems turbulent.

The best "subject to change" clause I ever saw was from Stowe frames. "We reserve the right to change specs in pursuit of improved performance", or something like that. Andy

Andrew R Stewart 

This is why I opened my own shop in 1986, after a year in a new city, I had yet to find a good owner to work for. Andy