Choosing a touring all-around bike - Fargo, Vaya, Bombtrack or AWOL?
06-23-17, 09:52 AM
#26
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I have a 2013 fargo, bike packing on gravel and pavement. For longer pavement rides I put on Schwalbe marathons, I can feel the efficiency. For off road (white rim in Utah as a recent example) I put the continental race kings on. It has rear fender that fits fine, Planet bike cascadias. I am not a light camper, and we often bring several pounds of beer with us. I have rear rack with panniers, and have found that getting some wight on the forks in the anything cages help with the balance while doing short tours. I am slowly moving over to a frame bag, seat bag and handlebar roll.
The Fargo is really comfortable for all day riding, at least for me, though I suspect most of it has to do with the woodchipper bars. A good budy has a vaya, which has been through all of the same trips, and he has decided to try the next camping trip with a trailer as he things the vaya is too flexy for his weight and the camping gear. I dont know how much he weighs but he is over 200. But the vaya is lighter and still pretty comfortable, we have done a few gravel rides together and he puts some tight block knobbys on.
One quick edit, if you have a lot of rolling hills you will find that the top end on the Fargo wont keep up with road bike gearing going down hill. Never a problem for me as I'm slow anyway, but have heard that complaint from some other Fargo owners and have watched the pack move on from me in some group rides.
The Fargo is really comfortable for all day riding, at least for me, though I suspect most of it has to do with the woodchipper bars. A good budy has a vaya, which has been through all of the same trips, and he has decided to try the next camping trip with a trailer as he things the vaya is too flexy for his weight and the camping gear. I dont know how much he weighs but he is over 200. But the vaya is lighter and still pretty comfortable, we have done a few gravel rides together and he puts some tight block knobbys on.
One quick edit, if you have a lot of rolling hills you will find that the top end on the Fargo wont keep up with road bike gearing going down hill. Never a problem for me as I'm slow anyway, but have heard that complaint from some other Fargo owners and have watched the pack move on from me in some group rides.
Last edited by jdswitters; 06-23-17 at 09:59 AM.
06-24-17, 03:50 AM
#27
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I've found a better way to make my decision - pricing and what's available around me. I've narrowed it down to 2 options (and will test ride them this week).
First one is the Jamis Renagede Expat:
https://www.evanscycles.com/jamis-re...-bike-EV275250
It has good components for the price and seems to be able to take up to 40mm tires with fenders. It also has a lot of attachment points on the frame and form.
My main concern is the carbon fork - can I attach the same weight as usual seeing that it has rack mounts? In my touring around Iceland (and potentially winter touring which I like) I would need full capacity front and back. I already have the gear so I don't want to get a bike that won't let me load it.
Is loading the carbon fork a problem considering it has the attachments?
Second option is the Genesis Croix de Fer 20
https://www.evanscycles.com/genesis-...-bike-EV289582
It's a tried and tested bike, BUT it's more expensive and much heavier than the Expat.
If I go with the Expat I will be able to add a dynamo hub with a converter, etc. for a similar price that I would get only the Genesis. The components seem to be good on both - the Shimano Tiagra set.
Any thoughts?
Edit: A note of why my decision swang away from the Fargo / MTB options - I do most of my touring on the roads / gravel, no real off-road ones, so I had to be honest and get an option that would fit better with that rather than my wishful thinking. Later I might get a decent but cheap MTB to try some bikepacking off-road and if I like it more I can sell / buy, etc. to move towards that type of riding. But for now and for my next few trips I will need more of a road performance with handling of gravel and dirt roads (they always come up eventually).
First one is the Jamis Renagede Expat:
https://www.evanscycles.com/jamis-re...-bike-EV275250
It has good components for the price and seems to be able to take up to 40mm tires with fenders. It also has a lot of attachment points on the frame and form.
My main concern is the carbon fork - can I attach the same weight as usual seeing that it has rack mounts? In my touring around Iceland (and potentially winter touring which I like) I would need full capacity front and back. I already have the gear so I don't want to get a bike that won't let me load it.
Is loading the carbon fork a problem considering it has the attachments?
Second option is the Genesis Croix de Fer 20
https://www.evanscycles.com/genesis-...-bike-EV289582
It's a tried and tested bike, BUT it's more expensive and much heavier than the Expat.
If I go with the Expat I will be able to add a dynamo hub with a converter, etc. for a similar price that I would get only the Genesis. The components seem to be good on both - the Shimano Tiagra set.
Any thoughts?
Edit: A note of why my decision swang away from the Fargo / MTB options - I do most of my touring on the roads / gravel, no real off-road ones, so I had to be honest and get an option that would fit better with that rather than my wishful thinking. Later I might get a decent but cheap MTB to try some bikepacking off-road and if I like it more I can sell / buy, etc. to move towards that type of riding. But for now and for my next few trips I will need more of a road performance with handling of gravel and dirt roads (they always come up eventually).
06-24-17, 05:04 AM
#29
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I have a 2013 fargo, bike packing on gravel and pavement. For longer pavement rides I put on Schwalbe marathons, I can feel the efficiency. For off road (white rim in Utah as a recent example) I put the continental race kings on. It has rear fender that fits fine, Planet bike cascadias. I am not a light camper, and we often bring several pounds of beer with us. I have rear rack with panniers, and have found that getting some wight on the forks in the anything cages help with the balance while doing short tours. I am slowly moving over to a frame bag, seat bag and handlebar roll.
The Fargo is really comfortable for all day riding, at least for me, though I suspect most of it has to do with the woodchipper bars. A good budy has a vaya, which has been through all of the same trips, and he has decided to try the next camping trip with a trailer as he things the vaya is too flexy for his weight and the camping gear. I dont know how much he weighs but he is over 200. But the vaya is lighter and still pretty comfortable, we have done a few gravel rides together and he puts some tight block knobbys on.
One quick edit, if you have a lot of rolling hills you will find that the top end on the Fargo wont keep up with road bike gearing going down hill. Never a problem for me as I'm slow anyway, but have heard that complaint from some other Fargo owners and have watched the pack move on from me in some group rides.
The Fargo is really comfortable for all day riding, at least for me, though I suspect most of it has to do with the woodchipper bars. A good budy has a vaya, which has been through all of the same trips, and he has decided to try the next camping trip with a trailer as he things the vaya is too flexy for his weight and the camping gear. I dont know how much he weighs but he is over 200. But the vaya is lighter and still pretty comfortable, we have done a few gravel rides together and he puts some tight block knobbys on.
One quick edit, if you have a lot of rolling hills you will find that the top end on the Fargo wont keep up with road bike gearing going down hill. Never a problem for me as I'm slow anyway, but have heard that complaint from some other Fargo owners and have watched the pack move on from me in some group rides.
I like the relaxed cycling mentality, but sometimes I wish to just push it on certain days and see how fast/far I can get (depends on the day). Fargo is def on my list of bikes though!
06-25-17, 06:38 AM
#30
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A Fargo Ti frame would be an excellent choice imho, its just so darned expensive. I truly think that for a Taiwanese factory-built frame - Ti or not - that they seriously should be asking less money than what they are. The Fargo Ti frame should be priced @ $1000, not $2500 ferchrissakes. That's getting up there into the custom frame pricing. You can get a custom Bilenky for that price, not to mention Lynskey or maybe even a Moots - getting EXACTLY what you want. Okay, /rant. 
06-25-17, 07:59 AM
#31
Senior Member
what you are referring to about the LHT is what I didnt want in a touring bike, slow steering, etc, and this is why I specifically was interested in the Troll. Designed more as a mtn bike sort of, it handles nice and quickly, even with 2.5in mtb tires, and as you have seen with my dropbar conversion, it handles nicely with dropbars and steers really well and reasonably quickly with a front load.
I put those slightly wider dropbars on, the ones that flare out (Salsa Cowbell) and was always pleasantly surprised by how spritely it turns when loaded, for a loaded touring bike that is, but fast enough that it really helps going down pothole strewn roads at 50kph and being able to swerve around stuff quickly.
and ya, the tubing is probably very middle of the road, but that doesnt take away from my enjoyment of a trip, and leaves more funds for travel etc etc, which for my budget is appreciated.
06-25-17, 10:13 AM
#32
Banned
..And Maxway Ltd. in Taiwan makes the bikes Surly (also a Brewery in Minneapolis) sells..
I Looked @ your link , Those are for little more than 2 more water bottle cages .
want front pannier racks ?, get a steel fork ..
....
Is loading the carbon fork a problem considering it has the attachments?
want front pannier racks ?, get a steel fork ..
....
Last edited by fietsbob; 10-16-18 at 02:05 PM.
06-25-17, 03:26 PM
#33
Senior Member
I like that the Jamis has two mid-fork mounts. You'd probably have to check with the manufacturer re the max load weight on it.
Was going to suggest the Shand Stoater, but unless you can find a secondhand one, then you'd have to wait for the build to finish with fork mounts added.
Also, the Alpkit Sonder Camino. Al or nice-priced ti frameset. However no mid-fork mounts.
The Jamis at that Evans price is a great deal.
Was going to suggest the Shand Stoater, but unless you can find a secondhand one, then you'd have to wait for the build to finish with fork mounts added.
Also, the Alpkit Sonder Camino. Al or nice-priced ti frameset. However no mid-fork mounts.
The Jamis at that Evans price is a great deal.
06-25-17, 04:47 PM
#34
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For what it's worth...don't spend so much time and energy on finding the "perfect bike". I started my cross country tour 2 weeks ago on a Diamond Back Mountain Bike and it's been awesome! I did make some modifications to it, rigid surly fork (replacing suspension fork), Moloko handlebars, fenders, power grip pedals and Schwalbe Big Apple tires. Bottom line, get on the bike and ride 
06-26-17, 09:06 AM
#36
Jedi Master
It sounds like the trips you have planned are loaded tours. Why are you looking a gravel bikes? The mounts on the fork of the expat are for water bottle cages so you can use a frame bag and still have something to drink. They aren’t designed hold a low-rider and panniers. If you are planning to use the bike for loaded touring with a few gravel roads here and there, just get a touring bike. In your price range this Jamis Aurora seems excellent.
06-26-17, 01:01 PM
#37
Senior Member
Great opinions have already been expressed...
My opinion, I am partial to Salsa because I can get them direct from Salsa myself and have been working with them in business for several years now and I usually get a new model every 2 years with our working relationship. So I've got a Mukluk, and a Woodsmoke.
My next bike would be a Cuthroat or Fargo. I know a bunch of people that take their Warbird's on back road gravel, and even worse and they are durable. I know some one that did the Land Run 100 on a Warbird but had a component breakdown at 83 miles...but that race is incredibly rough on equipment, and I like something that can work for every occasion, many of times.
With all that said...The bike that I have that gets the most action for any roads/weather/terrain...is a 1999 Bianchi cro-mo cyclocross lugged frameset with 700c Suzue hubbed RDK rims (road type wheelset hook up) and I can fit fat, or skinny tires. Currently...I've been running Clement 32mm tires on it for years now and I've done singletrack, road riding, etc. and I have 8 speed bar end shifters. But that bike...it can handle anything.
My next often ridden bike is an early 90s Bianchi Project frameset...700c MTB set up and it has been rebuilt by me using proven parts and I can easily fly along on that bike and it is fast, and durable. So...basically...it's an old MTB frameset built up to my specs...as many have stated. Some of the old mtb rigid frames are a great direction to go. Good luck!
My opinion, I am partial to Salsa because I can get them direct from Salsa myself and have been working with them in business for several years now and I usually get a new model every 2 years with our working relationship. So I've got a Mukluk, and a Woodsmoke.
My next bike would be a Cuthroat or Fargo. I know a bunch of people that take their Warbird's on back road gravel, and even worse and they are durable. I know some one that did the Land Run 100 on a Warbird but had a component breakdown at 83 miles...but that race is incredibly rough on equipment, and I like something that can work for every occasion, many of times.
With all that said...The bike that I have that gets the most action for any roads/weather/terrain...is a 1999 Bianchi cro-mo cyclocross lugged frameset with 700c Suzue hubbed RDK rims (road type wheelset hook up) and I can fit fat, or skinny tires. Currently...I've been running Clement 32mm tires on it for years now and I've done singletrack, road riding, etc. and I have 8 speed bar end shifters. But that bike...it can handle anything.
My next often ridden bike is an early 90s Bianchi Project frameset...700c MTB set up and it has been rebuilt by me using proven parts and I can easily fly along on that bike and it is fast, and durable. So...basically...it's an old MTB frameset built up to my specs...as many have stated. Some of the old mtb rigid frames are a great direction to go. Good luck!
06-26-17, 04:26 PM
#38
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Thanks guys, those are all fair points. The main question I am asking in this thread tough is:
I am turning to you to tell me if you have had any of these bikes and what is your experience with them:
a) When you used them on single / multidays loaded or unloaded on tarmac?
b) The same as above - loaded or unloaded but on off-road trips?
Thanks again
I am turning to you to tell me if you have had any of these bikes and what is your experience with them:
a) When you used them on single / multidays loaded or unloaded on tarmac?
b) The same as above - loaded or unloaded but on off-road trips?
Thanks again
06-26-17, 04:35 PM
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A 26" wheeled LHT or a 700c LHT ? A bike for carrying a heavy load is a dead beast unloaded but the difference between a 26" wheel 56cm LHT and a 700c 56cm LHT is night and day. I've had both and can say the 26" wheel version in 56cm is a very precise handling bike loaded or unloaded and the 700c version is like riding a bus.
06-26-17, 05:38 PM
#40
Full Member
Have you considered a Giant ToughRoad SLR 1? I have a Giant ATX lite which I believe is similar to the ToughRoad with smaller wheels and lower grade components. I really like mine. Part of the reason I like mine is I got a Jones H loop bar for it, but it's been a good bike so far.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/toughroad-slr-1-2016
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-atx-lite
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/toughroad-slr-1-2016
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-atx-lite
06-26-17, 06:20 PM
#41
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No experience with them but I absolutely wouldn't get the expat for loaded touring. Wrt the problem of gear/panniers rattling around on rough surfaces move to frame bag, one medium sized duffle w compressed gear tightly strapped on rear rack and small front bar bag under bars or mini front rack eliminating panniers completely. Get the bike you like to ride for 80% of your riding.
I am very happy with the final result and am waiting for it to be delivered. Thanks for all your help and comments!
07-03-17, 03:48 AM
#43
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Thanks! Really loving the bike! I will add some photos as I clean up the setup. I had a test ride this weekend and the gears are definitely on the high-end. I will be changing the front 2 chainrings. Do people have advice on the sizes for those that fit well with a 10 set at the back? The groupset is Tiagra. Thanks!
Apart from that it's really a joy to ride, so much faster than the previous one I had. The power transfer is better, I am loving the flared drop-bars (first time on drop-bars). It handled well on some proper muddy tracks with roots and stones.
Apart from that it's really a joy to ride, so much faster than the previous one I had. The power transfer is better, I am loving the flared drop-bars (first time on drop-bars). It handled well on some proper muddy tracks with roots and stones.
08-29-17, 10:22 PM
#44
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Thanks! Really loving the bike! I will add some photos as I clean up the setup. I had a test ride this weekend and the gears are definitely on the high-end. I will be changing the front 2 chainrings. Do people have advice on the sizes for those that fit well with a 10 set at the back? The groupset is Tiagra. Thanks!
Apart from that it's really a joy to ride, so much faster than the previous one I had. The power transfer is better, I am loving the flared drop-bars (first time on drop-bars). It handled well on some proper muddy tracks with roots and stones.
Apart from that it's really a joy to ride, so much faster than the previous one I had. The power transfer is better, I am loving the flared drop-bars (first time on drop-bars). It handled well on some proper muddy tracks with roots and stones.
The 2016 Elite can be a little high geared, with a 34-34 low gear. I just wanted to say that you can always throw a 10-speed 11-40 Sunrace cassette on it, with a Wolftooth Roadlink, as the 46-34 crankset only has a 12 teeth difference, the perfect difference for the Roadlink.
08-29-17, 10:36 PM
#45
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+1 for Thorn Sherpa. Those bikes are awesome. If I didn't have to pay a bazillion dollars to get one shipped to me in USA, I would have bought one already.
09-17-18, 07:35 PM
#46
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I few weeks ago I've started this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/11...l#post19556788
After reading through all the comments I realised that I wasn't necessarily looking for a faster bike. I want to enjoy my trips, not just rush through them. Some of the problems I have with my current setup:
- Too much stuff (not bike specific)
- The bike handles weight bad - twists a lot
- I don't trust it will do well on rougher roads. It handled gravel and packed dirt roads alright, but on some nasty dirt tracks it was shaking, everything rattling - definitely not made for it with load on.
The bike is Specialized Crosstrail Sport Disk. I got it second hand as a bike for around town and then convert it to take touring around Iceland and the Baltic countries. Now I feel I am ready for a better, stronger, more reliable bike (also with better components).
I have stopped at a few options.
a) More of a road / tarmac bike with some gravel / dirt handling
- Salsa Vaya
- Specialized AWOL
b) More of a MTB bike that should handle roads well with the right tyres, but would allow me to get on proper dirt track adventures with a bikepacking setup.
- Salsa Fargo
- Bombtrack Beyond (not the Plus)
I am very conflicted after reading a lot of reviews. I am VERY tempted by the Fargo (not Ti) as it seems an all-around option. I like multipurpose tools as I am still learning and exploring the touring world. I feel like my current setup is preventing me from trying some off-road routes and I think the Fargo with some bikepacking bags would change that.
However, I don't want it to limit me for when I want to go on the road. I want to still be able to cover good distance on long tarmac days with the right tyres.
I am turning to you to tell me if you have had any of these bikes and what is your experience with them:
a) When you used them on single / multidays loaded or unloaded on tarmac?
b) The same as above - loaded or unloaded but on off-road trips
Please ask me if you need any more information. I hope this doesn't look like I am ignoring the comments in the previous thread because I really am not. They honestly made the situation clearer in my mind and I am asking for more advice on the next stage.
All of these bikes are a big investment for me and I want to be convinced when I commit to one of them. The other problem is that the Salsa Vaya, Salsa Fargo and Bombtrack Beyond are not easily available near me in the UK, only the Specialized AWOL seems to be, so I can't easily see and test them.
Thanks again, any experience you share with those would help me greatly!
After reading through all the comments I realised that I wasn't necessarily looking for a faster bike. I want to enjoy my trips, not just rush through them. Some of the problems I have with my current setup:
- Too much stuff (not bike specific)
- The bike handles weight bad - twists a lot
- I don't trust it will do well on rougher roads. It handled gravel and packed dirt roads alright, but on some nasty dirt tracks it was shaking, everything rattling - definitely not made for it with load on.
The bike is Specialized Crosstrail Sport Disk. I got it second hand as a bike for around town and then convert it to take touring around Iceland and the Baltic countries. Now I feel I am ready for a better, stronger, more reliable bike (also with better components).
I have stopped at a few options.
a) More of a road / tarmac bike with some gravel / dirt handling
- Salsa Vaya
- Specialized AWOL
b) More of a MTB bike that should handle roads well with the right tyres, but would allow me to get on proper dirt track adventures with a bikepacking setup.
- Salsa Fargo
- Bombtrack Beyond (not the Plus)
I am very conflicted after reading a lot of reviews. I am VERY tempted by the Fargo (not Ti) as it seems an all-around option. I like multipurpose tools as I am still learning and exploring the touring world. I feel like my current setup is preventing me from trying some off-road routes and I think the Fargo with some bikepacking bags would change that.
However, I don't want it to limit me for when I want to go on the road. I want to still be able to cover good distance on long tarmac days with the right tyres.
I am turning to you to tell me if you have had any of these bikes and what is your experience with them:
a) When you used them on single / multidays loaded or unloaded on tarmac?
b) The same as above - loaded or unloaded but on off-road trips
Please ask me if you need any more information. I hope this doesn't look like I am ignoring the comments in the previous thread because I really am not. They honestly made the situation clearer in my mind and I am asking for more advice on the next stage.
All of these bikes are a big investment for me and I want to be convinced when I commit to one of them. The other problem is that the Salsa Vaya, Salsa Fargo and Bombtrack Beyond are not easily available near me in the UK, only the Specialized AWOL seems to be, so I can't easily see and test them.
Thanks again, any experience you share with those would help me greatly!
I own a Vaya, a Fargo and a Bombtrack Beyond. Eliminate the Vaya s too light duty. Between the Fargo and the Bombtrack Beyond (I have a +1), hands down the Bombtrack is superior in just about every way. The Faro has become more of a marketing image than a real adventure bike and they have steadily been cheapening it year after year in subtle ways that they hope you do not notice while they increase their profits. Ask any dealer about the problems they have had with incompatible cranks (Timberjacks), sunrace cassettes and other component problems and how Salsa just shrugged their shoulders and said huh when customers complained about the problems with cheap parts. The Bombtrack is a super rugged, durable no BS machine made with high quailty parts throughout, even the places many do not notice. If you test ride, be sure you can take it to a rougher single track area and compare the handling and more solid, predictable nature of the Bombtrack. Think of a range rover compared to a Ford Explorer in truly rugged offroad terrain. The Explorer looks rugged in the showroom, but quickly is revealed as image vehicle when tested in the field next to a real offroad vehicle.
10-11-18, 11:59 PM
#47
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I showed up, because I was researching Fargo.
My observation is this.... People spend money on a nice bike and nice tires and ride from Canada to Mexico with Zero flats. Then there is the other group that tells people to buy old rigid 26" mtb for peanuts because they can find tubes everywhere.
Now why would a person be needing tubes for their bikes they spent peanuts on? I have a pretty good guess!!!
My observation is this.... People spend money on a nice bike and nice tires and ride from Canada to Mexico with Zero flats. Then there is the other group that tells people to buy old rigid 26" mtb for peanuts because they can find tubes everywhere.
Now why would a person be needing tubes for their bikes they spent peanuts on? I have a pretty good guess!!!
10-12-18, 09:24 AM
#48
Crawler
Also, it rides about the same when it's loaded. Dreadful is the word I would use to describe it. All I can tell you is that there are many bikes out there that are much better.
10-12-18, 10:02 AM
#49
Senior Member
YRMV. I own 3 Surlys. Currently have the Karate Monkey with a 29er plus set up. Uninspired? I'm 230 lbs, plus say 30 or so pounds of gear, food and water. Works great. No issues. Great off road with the plus ties set up. Fully loaded turing bike are supposed to be lively? Hmmm. Ok.
10-12-18, 07:24 PM
#50
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One of the Interest in the Fargo is 27+
Will the Bombtrack Beyond fit a 27+ I am thinking a 2.8 G'one
I also don't know what to think about the Bombtrack Beyond geo... 5' 8" with a 30" inseam I typically ride medium and size 54 bikes. there is absolutely no way I want to ride a 809 standover off road or touring.
Will the Bombtrack Beyond fit a 27+ I am thinking a 2.8 G'one
I also don't know what to think about the Bombtrack Beyond geo... 5' 8" with a 30" inseam I typically ride medium and size 54 bikes. there is absolutely no way I want to ride a 809 standover off road or touring.