Daves_Not_Here

I thought it would be educational to describe actual examples of cyclist mistakes and misbehavior that we observe. My thought is that we can learn from the mistakes of others (although perhaps not as quickly as from our own mistakes). For example, seeing a wrong-way rider T-bone a turning car made a believer out of me.

Why not describe motorist mistakes and misbehavior? Answer: we already do that here, and non-cycling motorists don't read this forum anyway.

OK, I'll go first --

Saturday, October 1, riding southbound on PCH going into Newport Beach from Huntington Beach, I'm riding solo but there are about 6 of us that have coagulated into an informal group in the bike lane.

Motorist passes us on our left, plenty of clearance, proceeds about 100 ft ahead, puts on her signal to turn right, pulls across the dashed line into the bike lane and slows down. However, rather than immediately turning right out of the lane, she comes to a complete stop blocking the bike lane because there's a pedestrian on the corner stepping off into the crosswalk.

While we cyclists are not nearly sideswiped or brake-checked, we have to either stop or move to the left to pass. For me it's a non-event because I've already checked and moved into the empty lane to our left, but it would have been just as easy to stop. I think I said, "we're clear".

However, the leader slows way down, passes within inches, shouting profanity, and flips off the driver, an older woman, really getting in her face. By that time, I'm 20 yards ahead coasting, looking back at the scene. The guy catches up back up with me fuming, and I say something like, "hey man, what's the problem, it's not like she cut us off." The G-rated summary of his response was that motorists should not be pulling into and stopping in the bike lane when there are cyclists there.

-- here is street view of the lane and intersection.

https://g.co/maps/37uhm

I'm thinking there were 2 cyclist mistakes here:
1. Motorist had the right of way to pull into the bike lane at the dashed lines to turn right with plenty of clearance (as described in this scenario)
2. Cyclist did not make friends and influence people by cussing out a driver who was yielding to a pedestrian.

B. Carfree

I suspect he was over-reacting because of his lack of ability to maintain situational awareness while riding.

I'll go next. Today I was toodling along with my wife. As we approached a stop sign another rider passed us. He proceeded to run the stop sign and begin to turn right without looking in either direction. Fortunately, the motorist who was coming from his left was paying attention; she stopped before impact. Part of the reason the motorist was able to avoid running the cyclist over is that she was preparing to park just past the intersection so she had slowed down considerably.

Now, both the road we were on and the one that the cyclist was turning onto are very low traffic roads. It is quite rare to encounter another vehicle there. However, that is no excuse for just assuming there will never be anyone coming. I really think it is a good idea to stop at stop signs, but one should at least check for traffic that has the right-of-way before running them.

sggoodri

Based on the description, if accurate, the motorist did exactly the right thing, and is in fact required by CA law to merge into the bike lane when preparing to turn right, and is also required to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk. It's just like a driver making a right turn from the right hand travel lane - if you're behind them, you wait for them to make their turn, or you pass on the left if safe.

Maybe the driver could have stayed behind the cyclists and merged right behind them rather than passing, to avoid delaying them for a few seconds, but the driver did not endanger anyone, and the driver probably did not expect to cause anyone delay because the pedestrian was probably not expected. If cyclists want other drivers to give them the benefit of the doubt about our own safe road use and the temporary inconveniences it causes for others, then cyclists should extend the same courtesy to other drivers, and not get so bent out of shape. Developing a sense of entitlement to the area of pavement marked as a bike lane - or not - creates problems when people expect that entitlement to override the normal rules of the road.

myrridin

Two incidents, one this past Saturday, and another a few weeks earlier.

The first occurred during my normal morning weekend ride. Heading south on a 6-lane arterial with light traffic. In the outermost lane, taking the lane. Riding approximately in the center or just to the right. Out of the corner of my eye I notice a shadow just as another cyclist passes me just to the left. By just to the left I mean within 6" of my handlebars. No announcement, no warning, nothing... If I had weaved even a little bit, we both would have gone down--hard.... Just not a smart way to ride...

The second incidence occurred further south on the ride when I begin the west bound section on a four lane divided arterial. Again very light traffic. Once again I am riding in the center (or just to the right) of the outermost lane when I hear "on you left". Just as I started to move right to make room I hear a panicked "on your right"... Again I start to veer left when I hear another panicked "on your left, expletive... And then I get passed (very closely) on both my left and my right at roughly the same time...


Guess they don't understand the meaning of "share the road"... Wonder how they would feel if a car passed them as close as they passed me?

unterhausen

I see college kids behaving badly on bikes all the time. Just saw one today that was coming down a hill and rode through a batch of pedestrians at speed. Totally irresponsible

KD5NRH

See? You should have aggressively signaled your intent to move over with a rigidly outstretched arm.

sggoodri

Check out how Arnold Schwarzenegger rides:

https://www.vanityfair.com/business/f...l-lewis-201111

From page 2:

Keith99

^^

Leaving out the part where she says she rented a $5000 titanium Mountian bike (for what would obviously be a road ride) and then ragging on Arnold for not being ion a kit like she was.

I'm betting 90% of what she says is delusion.

John Forester

Decades ago I made quantitative observations of the competence of cyclist behavior. Some of my observations are recorded in the Tables 1 to 4 of the following paper:

https://johnforester.com/Articles/Fac...s/bikelane.htm

It is my impression that typical or average cyclist behavior has not improved since then.

genec

Ever bother to grade the typical motorist... bearing in mind that their movements are restricted by the width of the lanes and size of the vehicle?

myrridin

I suspect that there isn't likely to be a statistical difference in poor operation characteristics for either mode... And more to the point it doesn't matter if the point of this thread (as the OP requested) is to discuss poor cycling behavior in an attempt to improve the education/behavior of cyclists. Given the focus of the board I think it is a safe assumption that participants are cyclists... JF's post is on the point of the OP's thread--what do cyclists do wrong...

chipcom 

Why? If "we" observe them, why do I need you to describe them to me?

John Forester

Originally Posted by genec
Ever bother to grade the typical motorist... bearing in mind that their movements are restricted by the width of the lanes and size of the vehicle?


Here's genec with his perennial complaint that motorists are just as incompetent as cyclists, without any proof at all. I presume that he has not bothered to read my paper providing quantitative observations of the traffic behavior of cyclists. I suggest that if motorists operated with the same incompetence as the observed cyclists, the roads would quickly be choked with collisions. Here are some of the error rates for the observed cycling populations.
Stop Sign: no slow, no look: Palo Alto 59%
Stop Sign: no look: Palo Alto 22%
Left Turn: wrong start position, no look: Palo Alto 65%, Davis 31%
Left Turn: wrong start position: Palo Alto 27%, Berkeley 67%, Davis 56%
Lane Change: not looking: Palo Alto 95%, Berkeley 100%, Davis 93%

lostarchitect 

I'm seeing this more and more in NYC: Cyclists talking on their cell phones. Sometimes hands-free, sometimes not. It just strikes me as incredibly stupid.

genec

You're right John... cyclists are so irresponsible. Let me know when they start killing motorists, OK?

weshigh

Can you provide a link to your paper?
I haven't done any quantitative observations, but I see plenty of drivers doing the same and worse whether I am on bike,in car, or on foot. Plenty of speeding, plenty of stop sign blowing and slow and going. Plenty of of stop light running(mostly right turns on red). Occasional guy reversing half a block down the bike lane swearing at me.

genec

https://johnforester.com/Articles/Fac...s/bikelane.htm

Daves_Not_Here

If you are referring to the link to John Forester's paper, he provided it above but here it is again:

https://johnforester.com/Articles/Fac...s/bikelane.htm

Oopsie, I see genec and I simultaneously responded.

Regarding motorist misbehavior, I would say there is more than plenty. We have a thriving auto collision repair industry based on an average motorist collision rate of one per seven years; however, my point is not to compare and contrast motorists and cyclists for the reasons originally stated.

Also, while cyclists don't injure motorists, they do occasionally injure pedestrians and themselves when they screw up. Cyclists are not always at fault, but sometimes they are -- describing those situations is what this thread is for.

weshigh

Thanks for the link, I totally missed that somehow...
I'd be interested in seeing a more recent study. I wasn't even born when that took place, there is whole new generations of riders who are on the streets now.

The guy in your story sounds super annoying. I only started riding daily about 4 months ago. Since then I've put in about 1500 miles. There were moments in my first month that I had some similar thoughts as your riding partner, but you quickly realize how stupid it is. The car was doing everything right in your story.

donger

Perhaps I can offer a perspective from a cyclist/cop view. First, a little bit about me. I'm a cop in Northern CA. I took up cycling almost a year ago. I've logged 3000 miles this year, ridden 1 century, several metric centuries, and several half-centuries. I love cycling and I've also lost 35 lbs.
I know that motorist can be jackasses and ignorant when it comes to cyclists. I also believe that some cyclists are also jackasses and ignorant. It's like how some of the public view cops...you don't remember the positive contacts but the negative contacts will be forever ingrained in your mind. It's the same with cyclists.
As a motorist, I've come across riders on a one lane mountain road, 3 riders across, effectively blocking the lane and making passing the cyclists unsafe. I've encountered a single rider on the same road, riding in the center of the roadway with the bike helmet strapped onto the handle bars. Today, while working, I had a cyclist in a busy intersection who was stopped in the left turn with no cars in the lane. The light didn't change for the cyclist and, as I drove by in my police car, he looked at me, raised both arms and yelled at me (as if I could do anything about the light).
Here's some information that might help everyone here. If you encounter a signal light that won't change for bicycles, don't yell at the cops. Call Traffic Engineering and tell them. I guarantee that a normal citizen complaining will hold more weight that if a cop calls them up and tells them.
About cars making right turns at an intersection where there is a bike lane. The CA Vehicle Code (CVC) requires drivers to make a right turn as close as practical to the right curb or edge of the roadway [22100(a) CVC]. Also, the driver can be in the bike lane to make a right turn 200 feet from the intersection, even if the dotted lines aren't 200 feet long [22109(a)(3) CVC].
Now, about riders riding side-by-side. 21202(a) CVC says for cyclists going slower than the normal flow of traffic is required to ride as near to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway AS PRACTICAL EXCEPT WHEN: (1) overtaking or passing a cyclist, pedestrian, or slower vehicle, (2) preparing to make a left turn at an intersection, private road or driveway, (3) REASONABLY necessary to avoid hazardous conditions or debris.
21208(a) CVC requires cyclists to use the bike lane when traveling below the normal speed of traffic. The same exceptions listed above also apply here.

I hope this bit of information helps and it is not my intention to offend or upset any riders here. Feel free to ask me questions if you have any.

RazrSkutr

All of the above is just unacceptable. Makes me angry to think about it.

Daves_Not_Here

Chipcom, you're doing that nuance parsing thing again. I plan to give you a really smart-ass answer once I figure out the question.

unterhausen

I'm guessing it says practicable, no? There is a significant difference between practicable and practical. The average LEO is not qualified to determine either practicality or what is practicable for an experienced cyclist in my book. Does motorist convenience trump safety in your view?

fuji86

I think you did a great job with the old lady that stopped & turned. She passed the group, I assume at a safe distance to not get anyone upset over that. She used a turn signal so you spotted a potential worst case scenario where the motorist freezes, you took the opportunity to determine the lane was open for going around the car and left enough time and room to go around without an incident of anger. Heck, stopping yourself on a bike wasn't even a big ordeal, inconvenient, but you have to figure at the very least the old lady has poor vision, can't judge depth, speeds & whatever else necessary to have not even agitated the other cyclist(s). I can see the other guy's moment of frustration, but he got upset and yelled at someone's grandmother. So he really didn't accomplish much and there are other ways to express dissatisfaction.

Daves_Not_Here

Welcome! Congrats on the new lifestyle. And thanks for weighing in (yuk yuk yuk) on this and for providing a law-enforcement perspective.

Brace yourself for some flak here if your views on helmet wearing (Oh God, I went there) do not exactly, precisely agree with those of everyone, all of whom vehemently disagree. Also, if you need lots of unsolicited free legal advice interpreting the traffic laws you thought you had been trained to enforce, you came to the right place. Believe me, if you think you know what riding Far Right As Practicable means, it's WAY more complicated and controversial than you ever thought. Better not to bring any of that up, lest ye be set upon by ogres.

Seriously, I think your point about negative contacts being ingrained is particularly cogent, and one of the reasons I started the thread. From a cycling advocacy perspective, I think we cyclists do ourselves a disservice when we act in a provocative or negligent manner and disregard the effect those actions have on others (just as all constituencies do).