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Upgrading Brompton to Magura HS11 hydraulic brakes?

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Upgrading Brompton to Magura HS11 hydraulic brakes?

Old 12-08-20, 02:44 PM
  #26  
Winfried
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Originally Posted by chikiball View Post
possible to route the cable inside the stem and go further via the head tube exiting at the bottom steerer? Since it’s a hydro cable some bends wont affect the performance doesn’t it?
There is this hollow stem bolt product that can be used.
You mean by running the hose through the stem on the inside by drilling a hole at both ends?

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Old 12-08-20, 04:28 PM
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It seems to me difficult to enter the hose into the bottom of the fork.

Why would you like to use the Magura ?

If it is to improve the braking performances, its possible to have an excellent braking power by changing the caliper and the lever (original caliper and original lever aren't rigid enough).

Even if they are hydraulic, the Magura remain rim brakes with the pros and cons of rim brakes.
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Old 12-08-20, 06:00 PM
  #28  
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Because it'd be a cheaper alternative to get better brakes. Ridea and Cane Creeks are way more expensive.

So would a U plate + HS22/33 (today's HS11 have a bad reputation) be a terrible idea?
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Old 12-09-20, 06:10 AM
  #29  
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Message from Magura: "As I am not familiar with this adapter plate shown in your links I would be unable to give you an answer here although we used to offer a very similar system several years ago. The best bet would be to get in touch with Brompton themselves as they have many customers like yourself who are and have changed to Magura brakes."

Therefore surprised to find so few pictures when googling "Brompton Magura", especially ignoring Emanuel Ferretti's custom fork + triangle.

If so many Brompton users did install Magura hydraulic rim brakes, why so few hits?

--
Edit: Unsurprisingly, Brompton doesn't even want to hear about that monstrosity:
"Since brake calipers are considered critical parts for safety reasons, we can only recommend Brompton brake components parts. We suggest you do so, due to the fact that the modification will also invalidate the warranty on your bike."

Last edited by Winfried; 12-09-20 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 12-09-20, 11:30 AM
  #30  
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As an alternative to a U plate, what about a pair of "V-brake adapter mount clamps" (from Evolution Bike, Identiti, etc.) and a so-called brake booster (from Magura or elsewhere) for added strength?

https://www.bikeforums.net/mountain-...ake-posts.html

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Old 12-10-20, 02:20 AM
  #31  
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drilling might need to be done on the handlebar, we can then run the brake hose along handlebar, stem then head tube (provided a hollow stem bolt is used) and exit from bottom of the fork steerer.
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Old 12-10-20, 02:23 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
It seems to me difficult to enter the hose into the bottom of the fork.

Why would you like to use the Magura ?

If it is to improve the braking performances, its possible to have an excellent braking power by changing the caliper and the lever (original caliper and original lever aren't rigid enough).

Even if they are hydraulic, the Magura remain rim brakes with the pros and cons of rim brakes.
For me, I'd like to hide them cables, front and rear brake. And i think one of the best solution would be hydro brake, and if a disc conversion is out of the question, a hydro rim brake is the answer.
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Old 12-10-20, 02:25 AM
  #33  
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Winfried, Clamp on V-Brake post can only work on the seat stays. I don't think it can work on the fork.
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Old 12-10-20, 04:14 AM
  #34  
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Because of the oval shape?

Back in 2014, someone in Germany apparently used a U plate ("U-BŁgel"). Tektro also makes U plates.


Last edited by Winfried; 12-10-20 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 12-10-20, 12:53 PM
  #35  
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An after market carrier block might be less of an obstruction.


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Old 12-10-20, 01:51 PM
  #36  
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Thanks for the tip.

According to the user who replaced the pre-2012 Brompton levers + single pivot callipers with those HS22 Magura brakes: Today's levers + dual pivot callipers are just as good, so going Magura is no longer worth the trouble.

So, to improve braking power on the cheap, get good quality housing + cable and brake pads. If money's not an issue, consider alternative levers and callipers from Ridea and Cane Creek.

Incidently, does someone know if (Brompton) levers and/or brake callipers wear out after a few years of frequent use? Are they worth changing?

Last edited by Winfried; 12-10-20 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 12-10-20, 03:03 PM
  #37  
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The HS33 with its top center hose output is the worst case. The after market block won't really help

Caliper with the usual top right output are usable with a good hose/cable routing.

Knowing the lack of stiffness of the original post 2013 levers and dual pivot caliper (the old one, seems that the current one are worse), I am really astonished that the Magura doesn't provide better braking.

Note that the Magura do not have enough reach and need the adapter that lower the mounting bolt, so you could as well use other short reach road calipers with enough space for 35mm tires (the eeBrakes aren't specified for 35mm tires and nevertheless seem to accept 35mm tires).
There are several excellent short reach road dual pivot caliper not very expensive like the latest Ultegra that you could try.
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Old 12-10-20, 08:24 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
The HS33 with its top center hose output is the worst case. The after market block won't really help
I guess you mean the HS33 R Urban. It's apparently no longer made.The plain HS33 R has its hose on the right. Why would it be worse?

Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
Caliper with the usual top right output are usable with a good hose/cable routing.
What hose + cable would you recommend for use with mid-2010 Brompton dual-pivot calipers + levers?

Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
Knowing the lack of stiffness of the original post 2013 levers and dual pivot caliper (the old one, seems that the current one are worse), I am really astonished that the Magura doesn't provide better braking.
Ditto, but I have no other testimony. Contrary to what Magura told me, Brompton users who upgraded to Magura rim brakes seem few and far between.

I'm especially annoyed with Brompton's current solution while riding downhill and/or in the rain, especially with a heavy-loaded bike and compared to hydraulic disk brakes.

Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
Note that the Magura do not have enough reach and need the adapter that lower the mounting bolt, so you could as well use other short reach road calipers with enough space for 35mm tires (the eeBrakes aren't specified for 35mm tires and nevertheless seem to accept 35mm tires). There are several excellent short reach road dual pivot caliper not very expensive like the latest Ultegra that you could try.
What brands + models would you recommend besides the very pricey Ultregra (BR-6800/BR-R8000)?

Considering "short-reach calipers limit tire clearance to about 28mm without fenders; with full-coverage fenders, you've got about 23mm—and that's if you can squeeze those fenders in." (Source), shouldn't a Brompton be fit with medium-reach calipers?


Last edited by Winfried; 12-10-20 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 12-11-20, 04:07 AM
  #39  
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I based my response on the first pictures where you see that the Magura are mounted with an adapter that lower the caliper mounting.

Another model wide top side hose output instead of top center would I think be usable.

Yes, with short reach road caliper you won't be able to mount a front fender between the caliper and the tire.

The trick is to place the fender behind the caliper = to stop the fender just behind the caliper attached to the fork with the original caliper hole of the fork and not with the lowered caliper bolt.

Such a mounting of the front fender doesn't reduce the protection of the fender because its the rear part of the fender = the one behind the fork that protect the cyclist. The only drawback of such a fender mounting is that the caliper itself isn't protected from dirt.

Shimano Ultegra can be found at a not so high price

The Shimano 105 are very similar and cheaper.

About the tire width, road calipers are specified for max 28mm tires. But some accept wider tires. This is the case of the Cane Creek eeBrakes for instance.

Now why short reach road calipers: its because the weak braking f long reach comes first from the longer reach = longer arms of the caliper.

TI Parts Workshop proposes longer arms for the eeBrakes, I wouldn't dare to use them because I fear that these longer arms will ruin the exceptional braking performances of the eeBrakes.
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Old 12-11-20, 06:26 AM
  #40  
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Thanks much for the infos.

Do short reach calipers all require an adapter to lower it enough and reach the Brompton's rim?

I wanted to see what it looks like when folding a Brompton that has a standard, top + right caliper, but Google returns few hits with "Brompton Shimano caliper". I guess the few who want more braking power than provided with today's Brompton caliper + lever shell out and go Ridea/Cane Creek.

With a standard road caliper: Is having the cable exposed after folding a real issue, or just something to pay attention to?


Last edited by Winfried; 12-11-20 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 12-11-20, 04:52 PM
  #41  
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Yes, a short reach is too short to reach the Brompton rim from the fork caliper hole, if the reach would be long enough, it wouldn't be a short reach.

The Cane Creek eeBrake has normally a top center cable output (actually, almost center). Its an adapter that reverse its cable output to the bottom left (the cable run from bottom left to top center, the adapter reverse that, making the cable running from top center to bottom left).

I haven't tried to mount a usual top right output caliper on the Brompton (I only did it with another bike equipped with a Brompton front carrier block, its compatible with the front block but this bike us not a folding bike, the caliper is a Campagnolo Super Record dual pivot skeleton). so don't know how it impact folding. I would guess that it depend if the front brake is on the left or right hand.

Note that there is another trick to use short reach where a longer reach is needed = extension brake shoes there are several brands offering such kind of brake shoes these one add 9.5mm. Ridea has another type adding 6.6mm.
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