MrMatt767

Hi guys,

Newb and not really sure where to post this question but I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure this out + I've been looking for a new groupset recently and I keep getting annoyed when I see this stuff pop up on Ebay lol. Basically, over the last 6 or so months I've seen numerous Ebay sellers, mainly from Indonesia or Russia, selling high-end groupsets (9100, Red 22, E-Tap, 9150 etc.) at too-good-to-be-true prices/reserves on Ebay. I've even seen one seller list a complete 9070 groupset for $790 buy it now. Furthermore, these sellers have zero feedback and have only joined Ebay in the last week or so and the listing time is usually ~3 days. In other words this must be a scam, right?

The only thing that has got me puzzled is I can't figure out what the scam is, or how it is profitable for the sellers because they only accept Paypal with Ebay buyer protection. In other words, the buyer has a money back guarantee. Anyways, see here for a current example of these type of ads:

GRUPSET DURAACE DI2 9150 INT BAT NEW | eBay

Could someone who is tech-savy/well versed in this type of stuff explain to me what could possibly be going on here?

Thanks guys!

europa

If it's too good to be true, it isn't. You don't have to know how a scam works, just that it's a scam. In these cases, you're possible looking at counterfeit goods.

BTW, putting this sort of stuff in a post is a good way of having people not take you seriously

trailflow1

Yes it's a scam. The zero feedback score,the location, a single listing of high value desirable items, is a dead give away.

While paypal has a money back guarantee for any buyer. It's not fool proof. The scammer could give a fake tracking number that looks legit. If paypal falls for it, you loose all your money.

or

After no item has been delivered and you file a dispute which falls in your favour. The money you sent could be transferred from the scammer's paypal balance to their bank account as long as it doesn't trigger any security blocks. If this were to happen, you would still be refunded by paypal, the scammers account would receive a negative balance and their account would be frozen. But it would be too late, the scammer will have already transferred the money into their bank.

But typically if a new ebay account is opened, and they list something of high value like the example above. Any money will be put on hold by paypal until the buyer leaves positive feedback. The scammer would be hoping you accidently leave the wrong feedback for the item. Which would release the funds to them.

MrMatt767

I'm aware it's a scam I'm just curious to know how it works....lol

MrMatt767

Ahhh interesting! Wouldn't expect these sellers to have a particularly high success rate, which is probably why they're constantly listing them from different accounts. I wonder also if the goods could be stolen? Which puts the buyer in a precarious situation even if they do receive the goods.

europa

Funny bugga

The thing about scams is that they don't NEED a high success rate. There are so many scams they can pull that they only need a few. The internet has made the pool of suckers into a cast of billions.

It'd be nice if we could lock these thieves up but unfortunately, few people even report them, let alone provide enough evidence to have them prosecuted, then you need to consider whether it's worth the state's effort to prosecute, and THAT'S before you consider that they're safely overseas.

f4rrest

Lol.

Boondocksaints

Either counterfeit goods or they just send you a box with garbage in it and a tracking number.

Never buy Ebay stuff from a seller with no feedback.

qcpmsame 

They don't send anything whatsoever, if they hook a single person its pure profit for them, and a time consuming headache for the person that fell for their crap. With eBay and PayPal policies about protecting buyers, its one of them that is the eventual loser. Even the pictures in these scam listings are pirated from other listings of genuine goods, or from on-line images they scrounge for.

These low-lifes depend on someone thinking they can get a component, groupset, or sought after item at a pipe dream price. Report the listing, then move on to what you rally are looking for. The lister of the scam could care less about fulfilling any part of the transaction, they are busy putting up another false BIN and counting the money they do manage to take from someone foolish to thing that you can get anything at these insanely low prices.

Bill

andr0id

They will either send you a box of rocks and thus have a tracking number or string you along telling you it's in customs and delayed and please don't file a dispute until your time runs out.

unterhausen

fortunately, these scammers don't seem to ever send anything. They just run off with paypal's money.

indyfabz

Expecting that check from the wife of a slain Nigerian general any day now.

VonGutenburgen

interesting

FBinNY 

Yes, it is likely a scam. But you're not the target.

The way these scams often work, is the seller generates a decent surge of orders, and payments are tendered, and credited to their account. Then after an interval, but before any screams from the buyers, they pull out whatever cleared funds and disappear.

Later on as the complaints and claims against buyer protection come in, PayPal duly honors them and makes the buyer whole, taking the loss.

bp2k8

I think its easier for them to gather info when user uses credit or debit card. Taking money from a paypal balance does not net them much info and it seems its easier for paypal to refund money from paypal balance/credit.

MrMatt767

I think in all likelihood what is going on is these scam artists are utter morons. Every time I think of a possible scenario for how they could rip someone off, be it the buyer or Paypal itself, I can almost immediately think up a reason for why it would fail to net them any profit. Primarily, the fact that these guys' Ebay accounts have 0 feedback and have been created within the last week or so means that Paypal will have the cash pending in their account for a month, presumably preventing them from running off with the cash. It also means that even if they do send a box of rocks w/ tracking number or just a fake tracking number Paypal will always side with the buyer because, again, the seller is a sketchy Indonesian account with 0 feedback created in the last week. Finally, with Paypal you have 6 months buyer protection (maybe more when it's through Ebay, I'm not sure) so surely even the mightiest of fools would have launched a dispute within that time? I can only think that these sellers would be hoping to stall for a month without complaint until the funds are released, and they then would hope to run off with the money...with Paypal's debt collectors not far behind them. I originally asked this question because I couldn't wrap my head around how this scam worked. I initially thought maybe this was some very clever scam with a success rate of some persuasion because these ads are constantly being posted. I think, in hindsight, this is probably just a scam with a success rate on par with tales of a Nigerian prince...

FBinNY 

If anybody enjoys anything near to that success rate, they should be quite pleased. Millions of dollars are scammed every year by "Nigerian Princes" and their ilk, even though "everyone" knows about the scam.

People don't perpetrate scams because they're stupid, they do so because they work. Just because you don't understand how they work, doesn't mean they don't.

MrMatt767

Good point actually hahaha. To be fair, the fact that I didn't know how the scam worked was initially what led me to believe it was a sophisticated scam. I now think the opposite is more likely, that this scam is pretty run-of-the-mill low success kinda stuff...

Crashola

I fail to see how they can profit as well. Whenever I sold on ebay before I had a lot of positive feedback, PayPal would hold the money for up to an additional 21 days after confirmation of delivery to ensure there were no issues with the transaction. So unless the buyer blows off making a complaint, I don't see how the seller gets the funds.

I did hear something interesting a while back. Some scammers have learned that the more outlandish their scam, the more efficient it is for them. Smart people with common sense don't pay it any attention, so those folks are immediately filtered out. That leaves the gullible who are easily parted with their money left for the scammers.

Stucky

PayPal has different terms for different countries.

For instance, when sending payments to Indonesia, they will only refund "up to $20" for a maximum of 3 times".

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/country-worldwide
Click on a country in the global PayEnemy link above, and it tells the terms.

So you send $900 to Indonesia and never get your stuff, you'll get back a whopping $20. (I clicked on Russia, but it was in Russian.... but you can be sure that all high-risk countries probably are similar to Indonesia (Romania; Nigeria; etc.) otherwise PayPal would go broke, 'cause so many scams originate from these places.

Many of PayPal's US policies would be patently illegal in other countries- such as holding the sellers money. (This is why no one in their right mind in the US accepts PayPal for purchases much over a few dollars, because PP's US policies actually enable and abet buyer fraud. I've sold things on Ebay for as much as $32K; you can be darn sure the only payment method offered was bank wire transfer!)