Purpleorchid

How do you know when it's time to upgrade a bike from 12" to 16"? My son is 4.5 years old and rides quite well on his 12" bike with training wheels. I have noticed that his feet are mostly flat on the ground when sitting on the seat, but when he's pedaling, his legs are pretty cramped (his legs are definitely not stretched out like they should be on an adult bike).

He's tried sitting on a 16" bike at the store a couple weeks ago and he could barely touch the ground with his tiptoes. I did not check the seat height though, so that could be a factor.

My question is:
Is it more important to give him more leg pedaling room by getting a 16" bike and risk him not being able to touch the ground in a panic stop? Or should I just wait until I've maxed out the 12" bike seat height which allows him to continue to be able to safely (for his comfort zone) put his feet down?

Thanks in advance.

rumrunn6

sizing for kids is very much like sizing for adults. it seemed like I was getting my kids new bikes every year until they became adult sized teens.

used bikes rule ...

delcrossv

My 2c.
First get him off the training wheels using the 12" bike. Then you can start looking at something bigger. Pulling the pedals and having him push off and coast really does work.

timvan_78

So the 12" bike with training wheels has taught him the pedalling motion (but not balance).

Remove the pedals & training wheels and use it like a 'strider' balance bike so that he gets the balance. (He's probably too big for a balance bike now--Not too big, but it's late in the game to get a balance bike.)

Those 2 things can be learned separately (balance & pedalling).

Once he has those 2 things learned, get a 16" pedal bike, without training wheels.

Have fun!

Purpleorchid

Ironically, we got him a 12" Balance Bike for Christmas and he doesn't really like it. I can understand why...sometimes his heels get stuck under the rear bottom bracket (?) when he tries to scoot along. Once he even "ran over" his own foot with the rear triangle. I saw his foot get caught under it and then the back wheel lifted off as he moved forward over his now vertical shoe/foot....poor kid. Maybe I'll try to tell him his regular bike is being "fixed" and so we need to use the balance bike for now. I guess I can also entice him. If he gets good at his balance bike, we can trade both in and get him a bigger bike. Thanks for all the advice!

cranky old dude

Regardless of the "Training method" you embrace I believe that when talking about children who are so young that the discussion involves 12" to 16" bikes, safety trumps fit.

I would be very concerned if any young child can not firmly plant both feet on the ground while seated on their bike. For my own three children I didn't get overly concerned about fit untill they grew out of the 20" bikes.

delcrossv

It's really kid dependent. I have 6 y.o. that had no problem hopping up to the saddle when she was 5 and another that wasn't comfortable doing it until she was 8 and on a bigger bike. Just pay attention to where you're kid's at coordination-wise. There's a lot of variability.

DX-MAN

Since many kids' bikes still have training wheels up through 18" wheels, there's not necessarily a rush to train hour child off training wheels. It'll happen naturally, with minimal push. I just built an 18" for my sister's preschool granddaughter, has training wheels, she's a little diva who happens to like pedaling but wants the wide comfort zone of the diva set. When she makes up her mind that she wants to ride with "Uncle Dooder, Tee-Tee, and Uncle Mark", she'll come around.

As far as size goes, stand the child next to the bike. If a.)the seat, at highest adjustment, is at the hip joint or lower, step up; if b.)the seat, at lowest adjustment, is waist-high, step down. WITH training wheels, feet on the ground is less important. WITHOUT, give 'em an extra inch or so of "slack". Ideally, seat height should be within those two markers for kids.

EDIT: Not trying to offend, but make sure the training wheels are UP a bit; I deal EVERY WEEK with parents who complain about training wheels on bikes being "wobbly", because they don't realize that the child will never learn BALANCE if both TW's roll the ground. I put up a SIGN explaining this, and still have to tell people regularly.

Griffter18

Training Wheels/Stabilisers teach the wrong technique and allow the rider to lean outwards when cornering. When they eventually get removed it usually results in lots of falls and can then lead to the child not wanting to ride.
As others have said remove then stabalisers and pedals (cranks if needed) and drop the seat so that the child can learn to balance. Local cycling school uses the same technique for adults.

Once they are able to scoot along they will soon start lifting their feet up and at that stage you can lift the saddle a little.

As for frame/wheel size it doesnt really matter as long as the child can get get their feet on the floor and hold the bike up safely..

My little one has just turned 4 and has progressed to a 16". Weve gone with the Specialized Hotrock as its one of the lightest out there and the stand over height is low.
She started off with a 12" balance bike at 1.5yr and we moved her to the 12" with pedals at 3yr and she progressed very quickly.
The 16" has been custom built as she has no problem pedalling the difficulty is stopping.

Most Kids bikes come with coaster brakes and these prevent the pedal from being moved to the ideal starting position and also stop the bike abruptly if pedalled backwards.
We tried U-brakes but her finger strength was limited even using adjustable levers so Ive done some extensive mods to put disc breaks on.
Now she rides and stops with ease and the brakes can be moved to newer bikes when the time comes.
Saying that she still plays on the 12" balance bike as well and we have regular skills sessions using both bike where she learns to control her bike by riding through cones and around different sized circles etc etc.

DX-MAN

YOUR experience, friend, not the standard. My advice has worked for dozens of customers' children over the years. My own rarely leaned outward on training wheels during turns, and had few falls.

Griffter18

Yes, my experience in the same way that yours is yours. Thought this was obvious on any forum!
Difference is one of us is in business and therefore has the additional interest of Sales/After care (profit), the other is simply keen cyclist sharing his and many others successful experience of teaching their child to ride (not wobble) based on the information he gleaned from lots of other forums, Cycling Schools and Bike Manufacturers etc etc

The cycle Industry has moved on a bit and it is now widely acknowledged that stabiliser don't provide the right start:
https://www.ncagb.co.uk/schools/Learn...earn2ride.html
https://www.bikehub.co.uk/featured-ar...o-ride-a-bike/
https://www.ibike.org/education/teaching-kids.htm
https://bgindy.com/articles/teach-you...sson-pg470.htm
https://www.slate.com/articles/life/f..._to_ride_.html

Interestingly it was the small LBS that stated kids can't ride bike properly until they are at least 7 and then tried to talk/push me into buying a bike that was clearly too big but had stabilisers on. "Look she can ride this one" ...No she could turn the pedals and move it in a very wobbly way!
Its down to the Parent to do what is best for their child and being well informed is part of the package.

WillynHook

My twins skipped 16in and went straight to 20in wheels in Dec. (Xmas) 2012 at age 6 years, 1 month. I adjusted the seat so they could put the ball of their feet on the ground at a stop without tipping. Kids grow like weeds and girls get taller sooner at the same age (at least in my family). It took them 2-3 rides to acquire the balance of the "new" big bikes (as my daughter says). We biked all over the neighborhood last night. My kids donated their old 12in bikes to Bikes for the World. Have your kids sit on and size many bikes at your local bike shop as not all bikes "size" the same to all "sizes" of kids.

Dr. Joe

Purpleorchid

As an update: This week I "made" my son use his balance bike. Previously, he would go about 50 ft and about 5 heel clips before he said he was tired and wanted to go home and then switch to his 12" pedal bike with training wheels. However on Tuesday, he actually made it around the whole block on his balance bike...which is about 0.5 miles! He still clipped his heels many times, but at least he was willing to go more than 50 ft on the balance bike. Yesterday was ride #2 on his balance bike. Again, one lap of the neighborhood. He enjoyed it much more and is much better at it (fewer heel clips too). In fact, during dinner when we asked if he wanted to go for a bike ride, he said "no, I don't want to go on a bike ride, I want to go on a balance bike ride!" Woot! So now that he's into his 12" balance bike, we'll just wait until he gets good at that and then go straight to a 16" without training wheels. Thanks all!

delcrossv

Great!

LiamSkymom

That is awesome. My younger son will be 6 tomorrow. We had training wheels on both the 12 inch bike (which he loved but was a bit too small for him) and the 16 inch bike (that used to be his brothers). He didn't really like the 16 inch that much but would ride it, but loved the 12 inch. I took the training wheels off the 12 inch and told him it was no for only riding without training wheels. So first he only wanted to to do the training wheels one, then he only wanted to do the smaller bike and figured out how to do it with a little help. This past weekend, he finally was willing and able to do the 16 inch without training wheels. Now, I just have to keep up with both of them. Both of my boys are short for their age so a taller child would probably move a bit earlier.

Griffter18

Well done Purpleorchid, and an even bigger well done to your little one.

You mention that they keep clipping their heels. Can you say what brand/model of bike it is.
It could be the frame design or it could be the saddle is a touch too low.
I alway get my little one to wear boot style trainers which protect and support the ankle.

Now that they're on two wheels you can start developing the long term skills needed:

1. Get some cheap plastic cones (use in sport and fold flat when you hit them). Set up mini courses to steer around (circles, squares, triangles) helps with shape recognition as well. As they develop progressively make the bends tighter. The long term aim is they can steer around with their feet up most of the way.
2. Use the same cones to create stop areas; ride as you want but when i blow the whistle ride into the area and stop as quick as you can.
3. Find a park with easy slopes they can roll down on the way around
4. Find some bumps to go over, maybe even go through the wooded area (small roots)
5. Encourage the "scoot" ... push 4 times then lift you feet up in front a little.

You may also find that a simple 3 loop harness made out of rope or webbing helps. They put their arms through and you hold the loop at the back of them and support from the side whilst they learn to pick the feet up for longer
I'd also strongly recommend they wear gloves & a helmet whenever they ride. Its one of the conditions we set early on. "No helmet & Gloves = No ride"
The little bit of protection helps with the odd falls.

We also have a routine for when she falls off.
1. Check myself to make sure Im ok
2. Check my bike to make sure it's ok
3. Figure out why fall happened
4. Get back on and go back over same bit without falling off.


Keep up the good work.

1987cp

Seriously, what's up with the obsession with coaster brakes? I found it impossible to buy a new fixed-gear 12" bike, and counted myself lucky to find an old one at the side of the road with a "FREE" sign. My son hurt himself rater badly one of his first times out with his 14" coaster-brake bike, and couldn't seem to comprehend how to stop on it as purchased, but instantly got the hang of stopping when I added a BMX caliper brake to the front wheel. His dumpster-find 16" bike also has a coaster rear hub, and I'd be much happier if it had a freewheel.

Griffter18

Must admit Im not a fan of coasters either.
4yr old couldn't get to grips with it and we had several offs because she accidentally back-pedalled.
12' & 16" wheels can be bought without a coaster brake (see OSET parts) but you then needs to consider stopping.
Dependant on frame design you may be able to fit U-brakes but then you have the issue of lever reach and strength to apply the brakes.

I made the choice to custom build a 16" (https://forums.mtbr.com/families-ridi...=#post10335921)
I went with an 18t freewheel on the rear, 20" forks upfront, and disc brakes.
Big advantage was that she could stop and then move the pedals to the right place to start again.
A bit OTT maybe but she rides it like a pro and can stop on a dime safely.
2 weeks on and its since been fitted with a 3 speed freewheel (16,18,21) so now she can climb some reasonable inclines.
She started with a Hotwalk/Stryder as soon as she was walking and we practice bike skills a couple of times a week.