350htrr

You are correct... But isn't it "better" riding the bike all the way up the hill you still putting out your 100% effort into riding/pedaling the bicycle and making it with some assist, than walking up the same hill or most hills on your travels every day, or avoiding hills because, well because yous just gonna have to push the bike up anyways... ?

MidSouthBiker

I did not make my first post very clear, and I never said I could not make it up the hill. I simply chose to walk part of the hill at those particular times, as I did not want to take a chance at straining a muscle or two because of extenuating circumstances. I still made it up the hill on my own without assist, and by including walking. I have been successful riding completely up those hills in other occasions without walking. Also, I never intended to imply that using electric assist is "wimping out". I've been using that vernacular long before ebikes came on the scene. The only one I have called a wimp is to myself on occasion, and as I said before, there is no shame in it.

As an aside, one time I was riding a MUP when I saw an elderly lady jogging with, can we say it? With "Walker Assist". Yes, she was jogging right along the MUP with her walker just as one would do when walking. At first it was kind of amusing, because I had never seen anyone doing that. Then I thought, Good For Her!

Doc_Wui

I really enjoy my ebikes. They got my wife riding again. She's 66. If we blow by someone on the bike path and that angers him, well we're only going 12-14 mph and maybe that guy needs to get more conditioning. I go a little faster by myself, but I like to ride at low or no assist levels and still come home needing a shower after a ride.

What you won't see from us though is two riders coming at you or in front of you, taking up most of the bike path. I just don't understand the lack of riding etiquette.

big john

I don't understand why some posters feel the need to insult others or try to psychoanalyze them.
If you want to ride an e-bike, that's fine with me and I don't give a crap if you pass me, either.
Until you become dangerous to me I will say "Hi" and that will be the end of it.

Yesterday I was passed by a group of about 10 young guys on e-bike mountain bikes when they had to use a bit of road to get to the next trail section. They all said hello and so did I. We did not feel superior to each other or object to each other.

TCR Rider

I also agree with ride whatever makes you happy. Personally I'm not ready for an e-bike at this time. I'm 65 and just recovered from a knee replacement and worked my arse off to get back on the bike.
I too enjoy the scenery but a big part of the ride for me is the workout. I still train up to my ability so an e-bike would be defeating the purpose of riding for me.
Never say never but I will say not yet.

Retro Grouch 

Me too.

A couple years ago I helped to organize a +50 social group ride near St Louis. One of the participants brought his wife along who had an e-boost bike. It was the first e-boost bike that I had ever seen. Without the e-boost it would either have changed the character of the ride or else she simply wouldn't have been able to ride with us. I, for one (and I suspect all of the other riders too), were happy to have her with us and we were glad that the e-boost made it possible for her to participate. What objection could anybody possibly have with that?

BikeArkansas

As in everything American, if some is good, a lot is much better. The power keeps going up on the electric motor bicycles. The top speed, which must be important, is one of the first lines in advertisements. This will become dangerous very soon. People that cannot ride at higher speeds probably should not ride at higher speeds. Where is this continuing increase in power and speed going to end? Crashes. Complain about cyclist speeding on trails and roads, but they are very strong young men and women with some older men and women mixed in that have kept their bodies in great shape. These people are strong and can handle the speed. People that NEED an electric motor powered bike are mostly not strong enough to handle bikes at speed like these cyclists that are in great shape. Big problems will happen.

Maelochs

So ... both Doom and Gloom, eh?

Firsdt off, the idea that it takes strength to keep a bike upright ... you're doing it wrong. The little 4' 11" 80 pound women road racers seem to manage ... and though pound for pound their are fierce, overall that simply aren't that strong. Look at Chris Froome---yeah, he looks like most power-lifters,. he has the fitness to handle the speed.

The other major fallacy---speed kills. if that were the case their wouldn't be a motorcycle industry. There are all kinds of old folk out there on big, fast, heavy bikes ... and doing just fine, thank you very much. And they are going quite a bit faster than any e-assist bike.

Things are actually fairly simple. If the e-bike industry reaches sufficient mass, politicians, trade groups, and activist groups will all start discussing regulation. People will talk about kids on MUPs, terminal speed, group rides, traffic, safety .... industry spokespeople will look to preserve the best-selling features ... and things will work out.

Mopeds didn't exist int he U.S. forever, even thought hey were all over Europe. Suddenly they started catching on in the U.S. .... and laws were made to accommodate them. The world didn't end, people didn't die in droves, asnd cycling is still here and healthy.

People found out that mopeds are only fun when the weather is nice, and can't carry much, and can't use highways ... so cars resurged as the desired transport mode for the young and less affluent, and credit policies expanded to lure them in. But you can still buy and ride a moped.

E-bikes will be the same. People will find that they offer some benefits, but most people really won't want to go on fast group rides where they have to hold a wheel and focus all the time---just not that fun for most people. People will realize that they still have to compete with cars on the road, and most people won't want to do that.

Most people who are likely to want e-bikes are going to want either to blast along at thrilling speed without pedaling much (and their machines will be regulated as such) or want to putter around with a little pedaling and a little help, but wont want to kill themselves with effort.

Very few athletes are going to want to work really hard on a bike and use a little assist to keep up with the B group.

We hear from them because this is a cycling site. But most of the people who want to ride a bike fast---the sort which might post here---wouldn't enjoy riding with the fast group if they weren't riding because the challenge is a physical and mental challenge to endure and exert.

And those riders, from having ridden with the A group, dropped to the B group over time, and now don't want to do the No-Drop ride ... will know how to handle themselves in a peloton.

Doom and Gloom, hatred, fear, insecurity ... whatever. Why people cannot just stay cool and Accept Change is beyond me ... but so are a lot of really seemingly basic thongs, like "Why can't we all cooperate, be honest, compassionate, and tolerant?"

fietsbob

music segue'

ModeratedUser150120149

There have always been, and I suppose always will be those who challenge rules just because. What about those people?

From a safety and law enforcement point of view what is the difference between an electric assist bicycle and an electric Motorcycle capable of high speeds.

Many bike paths/trails are posted No Motorized Vehicles. Is it safe or wise to allow e-bikes on them? Especially when they could be the opener for other bikes.

Maelochs

Well, people can ride pedal bikes at unsafe speeds on MUPs ... so maybe there needs to be a ban on those too?

I can walk off the MUP, grab a tree branch, and walk back onto the MUP and beat people with the branch---do we ban branches, or walking?

If the MUP needs more law enforcement the answer is more law enforcement.

All laws are basically suggestions ---like speed limits---which can be enforced, but mostly people are expected to follow the rules, keeping in mind the greater good and the benefit each individual gains as part of the greater whole.

For instance, most people don't steal. The law, the moral training, the understanding that if theft is widespread, no one--not even thieves---are safe from theft---keep people from stealing. But some people do steal.

Some people will operate Any vehicle in an unsafe manner and endanger others without consideration. Skateboards, pedal bikes, electric bikes ... idiots with double-wide baby strollers are huge hazards on MUPs, but even worse are people on foot who are physically on the MUP but in actuality are ins some other realm, lost on their phones or music players, cut off by their earbuds.

Should we ban music? Phones? How to enforce that, since we can't even keep people from texting while driving?

Make whatever safety rules you like. Most people will stay safe and not endanger others simply out of common sense and basic decency, and some people, lacking both, will be hazards no matter what.

What about people who challenge rules? Well ... what are we doing about them now? It's not like e-bike Create those people. You say yourself there will always be such people which means they already are. So what do we do now?

BikeArkansas

Some laws are complicated. No Motorized Vehicles is not. Accept it.

Maelochs

yeah ... you kind of missed the point.

The question was:
So .. the laws are pretty irrelevant, seeing as we are talking about people who ignore the laws.

See how that works?

wphamilton

I think you're right, but there will still be a growing niche for e-bikes. Mainly for cyclists who like to ride like super-cyclists but still, bicycle enthusiasts to begin with. It's a relevant point: of those people who will become a menace on shared paths, they're likely a menace already without the e-bike. We'll probably just see more stringent enforcement of the speed limit statutes that we have already.

Gerryattrick

Or not, depending on how unnecessary the law is.


A bit like jaywalking laws.

Maelochs

Pretty much the consensus seems to be that idiots will always screw things up by being idiots, and reasonable people will always adapt.

If enough idiots screw things up badly enough, steps will be taken. We might see a rash of people coming off the trails on their E-MTBs to meet police, investigating based on video footage which seems to excessive speed (while the pedal-MTB crowd sits back looking innocent, hiding their cell phones, and trying not to laugh.)

Same on bike paths. I am sure someone could print a bunch of flyers and hand them to every one on the path saying "send an email to the city if you want better police patrolling for speeders on this MUP" and all it will take is two cops with radar guns on two Saturdays ..... bunch of ticket revenue for the PD, bunch of P-O'd Ebike maniacs fuming but not riding that MUP.

Or .... a guy at the path entrance with a sack of one-inch dowels labeled "spoke sticks" passing them out to all the silver-hairs and dog-walkers and stroller-pushers.

Wildwood 

I enjoy riding all of my bikes. Sometimes the decision as to which bike to ride is made at the last minute. I can't afford (emotionally) to convert them all, and besides = wouldn't it change the handling characteristics?


The DeRosa wouldn't handle like a race bike.
The Mondia wouldn't be the superlightweight any more.
The lower gearing for the Harding would now be too low.
I fear the silky ride of the Merckx SLX wouldn't be so silky.
Extra pounds on the Calfee - unthinkable.
Titanium e-bike just sounds wrong.
And a custom lugged steel ebike sounds overly ostentatious.


Not for me.
But my big (older) brother is going to buy one - and if he rides, that's good, after all he's in his 70s, I'm just 66 1/2.

Biker395 

E-bikes are definitely a divisive topic.

I see advantages:

1. People who would otherwise not ride may do so, so cycling becomes more mainstream. There are all kind of advantages to that. Less traffic, less impact on the environment, better health, more support for cycling infrastructure.

2. It also permits slower riders to keep up with faster riders and older riders to keep up the speed they want to ride.

3. It's another segment that will keep bike shops in business.

I see disadvantages:

1. Not a fan of the ethos that anything worth doing is worth having a motor do it for you. One of the truly wonderful things about bicycles is that they are elegantly simple machines that are solely human powered. E-bikes? Not elegantly simple, and not solely human powered. Adding a motor is no small change to the essence of a bicycle. It makes it something entirely different.

2. Anyone who rides bike paths knows that there is little or no law enforcement, and that will not change. Right now, speeds are self-regulating to speeds people are capable of riding. Motors change that, and e-bikes can be modified for higher speeds.

3. While greener than cars, they are not greener than pedaling, and some of those who turn to e-bikes are people who may otherwise have turned to cycling. I see a lot of e-bikes on my commute and 90% are ridden by people in their 20s and 30s, not older people who have difficulty riding.

4. Advantage #2 is no advantage to me. I am perfectly OK in riders faster than myself riding ahead, and I'm also happy to slow down to ride with someone I want to chat with. One of the nice things about cycling is that we tend to coalesce into groups of our own ability ... people we have something in common with ... and those common experiences form close friendships.

I'm over 60 and haven't seen too much decline in my ability to ride yet. I've always told myself that when I'm too old to pedal up the hills, I'll get a motorcycle (they sure do look like fun). An e-bike provides another option, and that is a good thing.

But for me, I plan to just ride slower and do it under my own power. For me, that's the whole point.

big john

There have been some editorials about this in print, notably in "Bike". It would be a shame to lose land access battles due to e-bikes, whether arguments against them are factual or just more hysteria.

Gerryattrick

The most important bit of all this is that e-bikes are not compulsory.

rossiny

Yes the battery improvements will be like having a moped , but no proper brakes and tires to back up the power. I guess e-assist for hills for some one that needs that in order to keep biking is ok, but where is the line drawn? When a bike is going 30 mph can be dangerous if it can't be controlled do to insufficient brakes, tires, or operator!!

Maelochs

I can go 30 mph on my pedal bike ... downhill, sure but speed is speed.

Bikewolf

Also, sometimes a doctor may suggest you ride a regular bike (for health reasons).

wphamilton

All very good points. Maybe it's an aside, but is pedaling really greener than electric? When you have to burn calories - no getting around that - and the food consumed is mostly grown using farm equipment, shipped by truck, produced with fertilizer and other resource-consuming chemicals, I think the balance may favor the electric.

All points are spot on, but this one is kind of provocative.

Maelochs

Well, the petroleum is also delivered by truck, takes huge amounts of energy and tremendously toxic chemicals to refine, takes huge amounts of energy to recover from the earth, and produces toxic gases---not oxygen----throughout the process. And the waste from petroleum is toxic in all forms, while the waste from food is fertilizer.