Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Reverse engineering a part

Search
Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Reverse engineering a part

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-22-21, 06:31 AM
  #1  
Tanstaafl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 162

Bikes: Specialized Crosstrails

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 11 Posts
Reverse engineering a part

The seat post clamp on my sisters Cannondale Slice 5 has broken. The bike is no longer in production, and she has not found a replacement. She was able to obtain a PDF drawing of the part, but it is apparently not completely detailed. There is a note on the drawing indicating more dimensions are contained in the IGS file. We can create a new CAD model from the PDF, but I am not sure how correct we will get the airfoil section without the details available in the IGS file. Right now, I am still trying to figure out the radius callouts. My concern is applying uneven stress to the seat tube on the bicycle as the clamp is tightened. I don't want to crack the frame due to uneven loading. Is this something I should be really concerned about, or is 'close' going to be good enough? Normally, I would create a CAD file, run a 3D print of the part to check for fit, and go from there. The problem is she needs the bike in three weeks for a triathlon. so we don't have much time. I have attached a picture of the clamp and the PDF drawing.

Thanks,
Jeff


Attached Files
File Type: pdf
AERO_CLAMP_ALOY_1-1 (1).pdf (47.6 KB, 15 views)
Tanstaafl is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 06:46 AM
  #2  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,447
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4236 Post(s)
Liked 2,949 Times in 1,808 Posts
Do you have a friend with a welder who can weld it back together for a short term fix?
himespau is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 06:55 AM
  #3  
jccaclimber
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SFBay
Posts: 2,334

Bikes: n, I would like n+1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 133 Times in 108 Posts
If this were me and I was using SolidWorks I would take a very square photo, insert it as a sketch aid, zoom in, and draw a spline to fit.

Is it a NACA profile by chance?

For a one off, traditional hand fitting may work as well.
jccaclimber is offline  
Likes For jccaclimber:
Old 07-22-21, 07:03 AM
  #4  
MrMazda
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix COMP Di2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would say it depends on how "close" you can be... I thinks the forces involved here are greater than we all imagine and that the thinnest parts of the collar will stretch to a point where the collar will conform to the post.
Pretty sure if you are within .010" of the real dimension, you'd be ok.

I'd be more worried of the strength of the material used to make the part as it may very well break easier than the original did...
Given the situation you are in, I'd go ahead and try... Especially if you are able to 3D print a prototype that you can try on and look for gaps!
MrMazda is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 07:06 AM
  #5  
Tanstaafl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 162

Bikes: Specialized Crosstrails

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau
Do you have a friend with a welder who can weld it back together for a short term fix?
I know very little about welding aluminum, other than those who can do it have obviously sold their soul to learn the secrets. My concern about this is we are trying to weld a thin section (3mm nominal) of yielded material that is permanently deformed at the break.
Tanstaafl is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 08:00 AM
  #6  
MrMazda
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix COMP Di2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have to agree, welding it is your best and quickest option. I would file what is deformed (interferes with post) and try to find a way to hold things together at proper position (not obvious) and bring (whole bike??) it to a qualified welder who will make sure nothing moves while he welds. This is conical, both halves have to line up! Maybe use an additional nuts with a longer screw could hold both halves while resting on a flat surface...
Wondering if this could be done while on the frame?? How is carbon sensitive to heat?
MrMazda is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 08:09 AM
  #7  
Crankycrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Liked 1,064 Times in 747 Posts
Originally Posted by Tanstaafl
I know very little about welding aluminum, other than those who can do it have obviously sold their soul to learn the secrets. My concern about this is we are trying to weld a thin section (3mm nominal) of yielded material that is permanently deformed at the break.
Houston should have some skilled aluminum welders. Try checking some motorcycle shops, off road vehicle shops, etc. for recommendations. A good welder can slightly build up the thickness of the clamp near the break and re-shape the deformed area so it fits and doesn't break again. Also, if you haven't already, contact Cannondale directly. They may have a secret stash or have some solution for you and call around to all the Cannondale shops as they may have a spare sitting around.

Last edited by Crankycrank; 07-22-21 at 08:33 AM.
Crankycrank is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 09:26 AM
  #8  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,808

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1944 Post(s)
Liked 2,165 Times in 1,324 Posts
I would contact Cannondale and see if they have any suggestions. It might be that a different non-Cannondale aero clamp will work. They may or may not be helpful, but rather than trying to mfg a one off, it is worth a try.

The other option is to find an aero clamp that will be long enough and fit over the frame. You might be able to build it up, epoxy strips, on the ID and then painstakingly shape it to fit.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 10:23 AM
  #9  
Mista Sparkle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 109

Bikes: 2007 Fuji Roubaix, 2018 Trek Marlin 5, Huffy Baron (Retired), Schwinn Twinn (On Deck)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 20 Posts
What's your budget?

since you have the pdf with a good cross section it should be easy to extract the profile from it and put together a suitable model.

Probably $150-300 to have a single part run of the model by somebody like protolabs. Probably similar in price to a single 3d printed one.
Mista Sparkle is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 11:51 AM
  #10  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,517

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2747 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times in 2,058 Posts
You have a drawing, with material specs. Buy some 6061 stock and have a machine shop fab a new one.

https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/...ruded/pid/7007
dedhed is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 11:56 AM
  #11  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,904

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2604 Post(s)
Liked 1,933 Times in 1,213 Posts
If it were me, I would NOT copy the drawing and build another one just like it. The original already failed. So at the very least put some more bulk on the outside of the part where it broke, and just worry about matching the inside design. For that matter, I'd be looking at reproducing it in a good steel for extra strength, instead of light-but-weak aluminum.

And the next time you buy a bike, remember the problem this fancy-schmancy part caused, and buy a bike with a standard circular seatpost.
pdlamb is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 12:44 PM
  #12  
flanso 
Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 311

Bikes: Gunnar Sport 105/UDi2, previous: Lambert, Giant FCR3, Cannondale Synapse Carbon 105, Specialized Roubaix SL4 Comp UDi2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
The 2010 Cannondale Synapse Carbon that I used to own had a similarly shaped "elliptical" seat post. The clamp may be more common than one would think; try Cannondale.
flanso is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.