u235

To say the noise is a non factor and not an indication of lube loss is not what I experience. At the same time, the chain gitters coming of the bottom der wheel and I've even had to to adjust my B screw to increase the distance to get consistent shifts to finish the ride. The lubrication is GONE and the noise is that indication. In that situation the shifting and clicking got better riding through the next puddle and getting it wet again. This is not some worn out drivetrain. This is on my MTB with less than 300 miles on new chain and rings. I never had that problem with the lubes I use now, I can even stop and rinse off dirt and mud mid ride and finish with no issues. It happened on my gravel bike too with a mix of components age. Stick with what you want but don't don't assume others are imagining things.

cyccommute 

Think about what an oil is. The "excess" on the exterior is just oil that has flowed from the inside of the chain to the outside. Oil is a fluid and, as such, it flows under the influence of gravity. Remove the "excess" on the outside and more oil will just flow from the inside to the outside, necessitating more wiping.

As to not being able to shove dirt into the chain manually, what prevents it? The gaps between the plates and the roller bearing are huge compared to the size of the particles that can collect on the outside. Yes, the particles that are trapped in the oil are of a wide distribution of sizes from nearly pebbles to nanoscale. All the grit has to be is smaller than the gaps in the chain and in it goes. For a more visual scale, try wiping something away from an open crack sometime. Anything big enough to go down the crack has as much likelihood of going down the crack as it does being picked up by whatever is doing the wiping.

Do you not classify the factory "lube" as a lubricant? It's not an oil. It's a soft wax. The only difference between a hard wax, soft wax and an oil is molecular weight. They are almost a homologous series in that respect. The carrier used for many chain lubricants has a much smaller molecular weight but it is related to the oil, soft wax and wax.

I'll agree that you can get some dust on a waxed chain but the difference is that it really is just surface dust. With an oil based lubricant, you are getting dirt into the lubricant because it can flow. Waxes don't flow in that manner. They can experience plastic flow but that is very different and far slower than the kind of flow that oil experiences. Think of it this (slightly exaggerated) way: as the chain leaves the cassette and is pulled towards the chainring, the oil is at the bottom of the chain. The chain goes around the chainwheel and the oil on the bottom edge of the chain is now on top. The oil...along with any grit small enough to get past the gaps...flows into the chain. It hits the jockey pulleys and is swapped back up to the top. This happens dozens of times per minute for miles and miles. Grit is pumped into the inside of the chain.

Contrast that with wax lubricants. There is no flow when the chain in between the cassette and chainwheels. The wax doesn't flow so there isn't any pumping of the grit into the internals of the chain. There's a bit of plastic flow when the chain goes around the chainwheel and jockey pulleys but there flow there with oil also. The oil can flow back and wax can't, so wax is results in a bit noisier chain. But, given that both lubricants give the same result in terms of longevity, there isn't an advantage with respect to lubrication of one over the other.

cyccommute 

If you think that the wax is "washing off", you are imaging things. Chemistry says that wax can't be washed off with water. The sound is other things happening...see above...but it is not wax removal.

u235

It is off, washed, magical, nuclear yield, or someone stripped it off when I walked away from my bike.. in any case the lubricant is gone. As noted by the chain is clicking and grinding, skipping gears and having a hard time. A lubricated chain does not do that, even one lubricated with water from a puddle won't do that. Are you implying you can wax a chain one time in its entire life and it stays well lubricated from that point on? At no point does something cause it to wear off any faster or slower?

greatscott

https://www.ilovebicycling.com/bike-...n-differences/

https://www.ems.com/f/ea-how-to-choo...lubricant.html

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...you-use-289671

Hmmm, according to those websites wax does not hold up to rain.

frogman

OK, we agree that there isn't an advantage with respect to one or the other as far as life of the chain. I have had different results than you with wax used as a chain lubricant. I will go with what has worked best for me. Comparing our anecdotal experience has been interesting. Thanks for sharing with me. It is raining cats and dogs here in Northern CA. Putting on rain gear and heading out for a ride.

cyccommute 

You are missing my point. It is on "off". One of the things that many people don't like about wax based lubricants is that they cause build up of wax on the jockey wheel. That's because the excess is caught on the wheel where it evaporates and builds up over time. If you've every tried to remove it, it doesn't "wash" off. It has to be mechanically removed or removed with solvent...not Simple Green. The wax in the chain is just as tenacious. Yes, as I've said many times in this thread alone, the wax gets shoved out spaces and it can't move back. But an oil flows away from those points too.

My chains aren't prone to "clicking, grinding, skipping gears and having a hard time". That kind of behavior probably isn't related to the chain in the first place. Skipping gears, clicking and rough shifts are related to derailer problems. I've used this stuff in snow, rain, dirt roads in rain, on tow paths and rail trails, off road in wet conditions, etc in 48 of the 50 states without issues. My chains don't grind, click, skip gears or have difficulty shifting.

Where did I imply that? The wax sloughs off over time and needs to be replaced. In my experience, it doesn't need to be replaced nearly as often as most...including the manufacturer...thinks. I did a 1500 mile tour from Toledo, OH, up and over Lake Erie, across New York, looped down to Delaware, across Maryland and up to Pittsburgh. I carried, and used, wax lubricant for the whole trip. I applied it 3 times due to rain. I got 500 to 600 miles between applications when it didn't rain.

I get similar results at home. My drivetrain runs smooth and relatively quiet, although a bit louder than oil based lubricants. As I said above, it doesn't grind, skip gears, and the shifts are crisp and precise.

JohnnyCyclist

I've had good luck with WL CR, even in wet conditions. I use the following as my guide: if the bike got dirty enough to require a wash, then the chain also requires fresh WL CR.

My 'babied, dry weather' bikes need a wash periodically, or course. If I don't get chain squeak first (rare, but not never), they also get fresh WL CR along with the wash.

I've had the 'clog problem', most of the time when it's cold. Here's what I do: turn the bottle tip-up and squeeze. Air will blow out the clog. Continue lubing, and repeat when it clogs again.

Wattsup

25 miles today, lots of big puddles, WL held up well. I think I applied more to the chain this time, using the officially approved method, which is to spray the living c__p out of it over the cog while back-pedaling vigorously. Last time I applied WL more conservatively while the chain was off the bike.

Wattsup

Two months later, hundreds of miles, many wet and muddy, and the Clean Ride is working out well for me. I do apply it before each ride...takes just one minute, apply liberally, directly over the cog while turning the crank. Then I wait five minutes and then wipe off the excess. I don't even lube the night before. I lube the same day, and it's just fine. The bike is covered in mud, but the chain is quite clean, just some old caked on Clean Ride in places.

Skipjacks

Reviving and old thread here to add insight about White Lighting wax lube in wet conditions

Water doesn't wash it off

But White Lighting doesn't hold up well in wet conditions.

So why?

After switching to White Lighting a few weeks ago and having a couple wet rides mixed in with the dry ones I think I figured it out.

When it's wet, more crud gets lifted off the road and thrown into the chain. A wet tire picks up more surface debris than a dry tire, and can throw it further since it's heavier when its' wet. This is not exactly quantum physics here. Hence why the rest of the bike is much dirtier after a wet ride than after a dry one.

Since more crud is begin flung into the chain, more crud is get caught in the wax, causing more of the wax to sluff off like it's supposed to do. The wax works fine in wet, exactly like it's supposed to do. It just uses itself up faster because it's working overtime.

I've noticed my chain needs to have WL reapplied after a wet ride...but...it's also still clean.

After a wet ride with a wet lube...the chain looks like a grime factory.

NoWhammies

@Skipjacks so what's the verdict? Are you happy with your switch? Are you sticking with it?

I have been using Pro Link for a long time now, and I'm just so-so with it. A friend of mine years ago sung the praises of White Lightening so when I replace the chain on my bike, I'm thinking of making the switch.

Comments/feedback welcome.

Skipjacks

I'm sticking with White Lightning Clean Ride through this bottle of it at least. I might try another similar wax lube just to tweak the process after that and see if another one works even better. But I'm sold on true wax lubes from a bottle without having to do the whole 'melt parafin in a crock pot' thing.

I previously tried Finish Line Dry with the Teflon....no idea if the Teflon works but it wasn't dry by any means. It attracted road grime like crazy. Had the same issue with Bosheilds' T9. No matter what I did it never dried. Was always wet. Was a dirt magnet. And I'm the school of thought that road grit on the chain is what causes the components to wear out because it's abrasive.

Anyway I didn't do a 2nd application of the Finish Line Dry. I didn't like it from the start. It's good stuff for other applications though. It did a great job of stopping the squeaky hinge on my bathroom door and seems to last longer than WD-40.

I'm not sure I would trust White Lightning Clean Ride to a multi day excursion in dirty conditions just because it has a limited service life per application. You'd have to bring more to redo the lube each night if you were doing 100-150 miles a day or something. But for a commuter bike that I ride 100 miles a month....it's perfect. I can relube it once a month, right on the bike just turning the crank backwards. Takes 5 minutes and it's ready to go the next morning.

What I have not done is tried it on my gravel bike on a crushed limestone trail yet. (Mostly due to laziness and not feeling like cleaning the old lube off thoroughly, which is absolutely required for the first application of a wax lube) I am curious to see how it holds up to a 50+ mile ride with that crushed limestone dust being constantly thrown into the drive train. Obviously that is dirtier than a paved road.

Swampoodle

Hi, this is my first post. Just purchased a used ‘18 Cannondale road bike. I would like to start using white lightning on my chain. Do not know what lube was previously used but the chain looks pretty clean. A prior post mentioned that the chain needs to be throughly cleaned before applying WL. Could someone suggest a method I could use to adequately clean my chain without removing it from the bike?

NoWhammies

Thanks for the excellent explanation @Skipjacks. Maybe I'll stick with ProLink for a bit then.

Skipjacks

This stuff

https://www.amazon.com/White-Lightni...SIN=B018GI8S7Y

I do believe it would take rust off a car bumper. It degreases grime off a chain like you won't believe.

Take the chain off and put it in a container where it can lay flat. (Not coiled over on itself) and spray this stuff into the container and let it sit. That'll work it in and out of the links more than a quick outer spray.

I would not use this ON the bike. Take the wheels and chain off and spray them elsewhere. This stuff will probably disintegrate disc brake pads. It's probably not great for the paint either. But road grime...gone.