New rider...what is a good average speed?
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
Wheel overlap is inevitable. Doesn't matter if it's 150 riders or 2 riders. I probably spend half my time in a larger group with overlapped wheels.
The issue comes when riders overlapping wheels either don't leave themselves room/an out, or they don't pay close enough attention to the rider and road ahead. If you're overlapping wheels for a long amount of time and have another rider 2 inches from your handlebars on the other side, then you really have nowhere to go should something happen. But if you're overlapping wheels with room to move on the other side, you're fine.
Overlapping wheels isn't something to avoid outright, it's something to be aware of when it happens and leave yourself room to maneuver.
The better group riding skill to have is to always be looking to the riders and the road ahead and leave yourself outs. Anticipate and react.
Likes For rubiksoval:
#53
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
7 Posts
Totally agree. I wasn’t sure how much I was going to like road biking given the (in my view) uncomfortable riding position and likelihood of getting run over by a car. I got a gravel bike for maximum versatility and comfort and using two wheel sets. Love it. Can be as upright as I want with a nice short reach or as aero as I need to be in the drops. Just got ride 3 in. 27 miles nice and early before traffic. I still love my indoor Peloton rides, but really happy with the decision to hit the real road! And I have a new appreciation for inclines...even the hardly noticeable ones (when you aren’t on a bike that is).
#54
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,913
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10397 Post(s)
Liked 11,861 Times
in
6,072 Posts
Yeah, these skills take time and practice to acquire, and a fast group ride will assume you already have them. Hey, isn't there a whole thread on this? "We'll Yell At You"?
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
I think this is something that gets very overblown and taken out of context.
Wheel overlap is inevitable. Doesn't matter if it's 150 riders or 2 riders. I probably spend half my time in a larger group with overlapped wheels.
The issue comes when riders overlapping wheels either don't leave themselves room/an out, or they don't pay close enough attention to the rider and road ahead. If you're overlapping wheels for a long amount of time and have another rider 2 inches from your handlebars on the other side, then you really have nowhere to go should something happen. But if you're overlapping wheels with room to move on the other side, you're fine.
Overlapping wheels isn't something to avoid outright, it's something to be aware of when it happens and leave yourself room to maneuver.
The better group riding skill to have is to always be looking to the riders and the road ahead and leave yourself outs. Anticipate and react.
Wheel overlap is inevitable. Doesn't matter if it's 150 riders or 2 riders. I probably spend half my time in a larger group with overlapped wheels.
The issue comes when riders overlapping wheels either don't leave themselves room/an out, or they don't pay close enough attention to the rider and road ahead. If you're overlapping wheels for a long amount of time and have another rider 2 inches from your handlebars on the other side, then you really have nowhere to go should something happen. But if you're overlapping wheels with room to move on the other side, you're fine.
Overlapping wheels isn't something to avoid outright, it's something to be aware of when it happens and leave yourself room to maneuver.
The better group riding skill to have is to always be looking to the riders and the road ahead and leave yourself outs. Anticipate and react.
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
177 Posts
As I said, sometimes it can’t be helped, just like driving too close to the car in front of you. The problem is when it becomes the default position. It really is a less effective place to ride in a lot of cases because your taking on more wind than needed and as with most less ideal situations, eventually you lose concentration at the wrong moment and down you go. Overlap happens, as I said.
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
As I said, sometimes it can’t be helped, just like driving too close to the car in front of you. The problem is when it becomes the default position. It really is a less effective place to ride in a lot of cases because your taking on more wind than needed and as with most less ideal situations, eventually you lose concentration at the wrong moment and down you go. Overlap happens, as I said.
The "don't overlap" thing causes people to needlessly brake repeatedly which causes the people behind them to brake which opens up gaps, etc. It's the opposite of what's needed for smooth group riding.
Likes For rubiksoval:
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
There is no default position. You draft, you overlap to slow, then you draft again. It happens constantly. It's not a less than ideal situation. It's simply another situation that one needs to be cognizant and capable of handling.
The "don't overlap" thing causes people to needlessly brake repeatedly which causes the people behind them to brake which opens up gaps, etc. It's the opposite of what's needed for smooth group riding.
The "don't overlap" thing causes people to needlessly brake repeatedly which causes the people behind them to brake which opens up gaps, etc. It's the opposite of what's needed for smooth group riding.
Last edited by colnago62; 07-04-20 at 11:21 AM.
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
Unless there's a strong crosswind in which case you want to be heavily overlapped. Earlier this year while on a solo ride a team came by and invited me into their rotation. It was a fast paced ride and when riding with the wind from the side we were echeloned across the road. Definitely have to pay close attention though with a few 'ripples' occurring in the group.
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
177 Posts
The most effective position is a function of the apparent wind angle. Directly behind in a straight headwind to on the hip in a strong crosswind. In between there is often overlap.
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
We have all those electronics and when it comes time to prepare - it is all the watch on a known course.
On topic - junior (21 year old been cycling since 8) can hold a bit over 30, on the TT bike and around 28 on road bike for 20-30min.
Here are some of the faster USA solo times https://www.strava.com/segments/3438723
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 557
Bikes: 2021 Trek Checkpoint SL (GRX Di2), 2020 Domane SLR 9 (very green), 2016 Trek Emonda SL, 2009 Bianchi 928, 1972 Atala Record Pro
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times
in
55 Posts
Also on topic: A 55 yr. old buddy of mine with no significant cardio background - played a lot of squash and did gym stuff but was never a runner or the like - started riding two months ago. He's been riding with me two or three times a week, and getting stronger by the day.
This morning, we rode 46 relatively flat miles at an average of 18.2 mph. He has not mastered or even tried the art of drafting, so I would call it a solo effort. I'd say he has a year or more before the upside is reached, and its going to be in the low 20s.
At 64, I'm just hoping I'll be able to keep up when that happens.
This morning, we rode 46 relatively flat miles at an average of 18.2 mph. He has not mastered or even tried the art of drafting, so I would call it a solo effort. I'd say he has a year or more before the upside is reached, and its going to be in the low 20s.
At 64, I'm just hoping I'll be able to keep up when that happens.
#64
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
cycling speed
I have ignored speed, as conditions are always changing. I focus on my critical power curve. At 63 and 190 lb,, while my FTP is 260W and my max is 1600W, I have found some flat spots in between that needed work. My events on the track last a max of 37 seconds ( 500M TT). My 20 second power is 950W, but as I get to 60 second power, I drop off too far at 560W. so I have been focusing on Tabata intervals to bring that up to over 600W, and it has helped my 500M finish immensely. I am now a slave to the power meter! It is really hard to do Tabatas well without a power meter. Speed and heart rate don't hack it. I try to average 500W for each Tabata effort. Interesting that each set of 8 Tabata intervals declines by about 10 W. By the 4th set of 8, I am only able to manage 460W. This has also helped my recovery more than other intervals. Still, nothing seems to beat a good points race for working on recovery. I have never seen a bike racer look at their speedometer in anything but a 40K TT, but many use power meters to judge their breakaway efforts, so they don't get fooled by adrenaline and blow up.
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
I don't know you size, or missed that post. I did 265 @ the hub (pedal/crank PM may measure 5-10W more) today to see what speed it would get me. 21-22mph. I know you had lights. I'm 200+ # and hairy legs, good posture hands on hoods.
I'd guess you could pick up 1-2 mph just on kit, position/fit at the same power. Of course the bike does not matter a whole bunch, but it does matter. In fit first, but also at 20+ the frame and wheels.
I'd guess you could pick up 1-2 mph just on kit, position/fit at the same power. Of course the bike does not matter a whole bunch, but it does matter. In fit first, but also at 20+ the frame and wheels.
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
I have ignored speed, as conditions are always changing. I focus on my critical power curve. At 63 and 190 lb,, while my FTP is 260W and my max is 1600W, I have found some flat spots in between that needed work. My events on the track last a max of 37 seconds ( 500M TT). My 20 second power is 950W, but as I get to 60 second power, I drop off too far at 560W. so I have been focusing on Tabata intervals to bring that up to over 600W, and it has helped my 500M finish immensely. I am now a slave to the power meter! It is really hard to do Tabatas well without a power meter. Speed and heart rate don't hack it. I try to average 500W for each Tabata effort. Interesting that each set of 8 Tabata intervals declines by about 10 W. By the 4th set of 8, I am only able to manage 460W. This has also helped my recovery more than other intervals. Still, nothing seems to beat a good points race for working on recovery. I have never seen a bike racer look at their speedometer in anything but a 40K TT, but many use power meters to judge their breakaway efforts, so they don't get fooled by adrenaline and blow up.
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
I have ignored speed, as conditions are always changing. I focus on my critical power curve. At 63 and 190 lb,, while my FTP is 260W and my max is 1600W, I have found some flat spots in between that needed work. My events on the track last a max of 37 seconds ( 500M TT). My 20 second power is 950W, but as I get to 60 second power, I drop off too far at 560W. so I have been focusing on Tabata intervals to bring that up to over 600W, and it has helped my 500M finish immensely. I am now a slave to the power meter! It is really hard to do Tabatas well without a power meter. Speed and heart rate don't hack it. I try to average 500W for each Tabata effort. Interesting that each set of 8 Tabata intervals declines by about 10 W. By the 4th set of 8, I am only able to manage 460W. This has also helped my recovery more than other intervals. Still, nothing seems to beat a good points race for working on recovery. I have never seen a bike racer look at their speedometer in anything but a 40K TT, but many use power meters to judge their breakaway efforts, so they don't get fooled by adrenaline and blow up.
This morning I changed the Garmin to show power (I normally do not even look). I was curious what speed I'd hold on a flat (no noticeable wind help) section @265 W like the OP. Funny I can be very close guessing my kid, but little idea about me. I saw 21 mph and could vary from 20-22 on the same 265W by position. I found with my son we'd see 3-4 mph different at same power. I find holding power and adjusting things to see the speed increases more interesting than trying to achieve a power. Strava KOMs that show power show that it is often not W/Kg that do the best on other than hills.
#68
bill nyecycles
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,328
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 789 Post(s)
Liked 350 Times
in
190 Posts
I just started riding...I am two rides in, both around 22 miles, so not particularly long. Averaging 19.8mph solo with roughly 1000ft of vertical (up and down given they are loops). Wind hasn't been a big factor on these rides and I've been able to keep moving without more than 1 or 2 stops at a light or something. I know there are no "typical" numbers, but trying to get a sense for how I'd keep up with a group of much more experienced riders...
#69
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,845
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2134 Post(s)
Liked 1,643 Times
in
825 Posts
I just started riding...I am two rides in, both around 22 miles, so not particularly long. Averaging 19.8mph solo with roughly 1000ft of vertical (up and down given they are loops). Wind hasn't been a big factor on these rides and I've been able to keep moving without more than 1 or 2 stops at a light or something. I know there are no "typical" numbers, but trying to get a sense for how I'd keep up with a group of much more experienced riders...
#72
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,913
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10397 Post(s)
Liked 11,861 Times
in
6,072 Posts
Part of it's like qualifying for the Olympics - you have to choose your grandparents carefully.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#74
Senior Member
I just started riding...I am two rides in, both around 22 miles, so not particularly long. Averaging 19.8mph solo with roughly 1000ft of vertical (up and down given they are loops). Wind hasn't been a big factor on these rides and I've been able to keep moving without more than 1 or 2 stops at a light or something. I know there are no "typical" numbers, but trying to get a sense for how I'd keep up with a group of much more experienced riders...
Last edited by jblackmd; 07-06-20 at 12:59 PM.
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,938
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3943 Post(s)
Liked 7,286 Times
in
2,942 Posts