motogeek 

I'm trying to research the age of a vintage Swiss-made Allegro that I recently found. It has a serial number on a pad on the seat tube, just below the left hand side of the seat cluster. The number is 99116. The current owner indicated he thought it was around 1959. Its a 3-speed with a Simplex 3-sprocket derailleur, nervex-like lugs on a Reynolds 531 3-main tube frame. The component makeup is clearly way older than my base of knowledge (early '70s). Does anyone know anything about these old Allegros?

juvela

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The forum has had discussion threads on models kitted as you describe. Have a go at the search function to bring some of them up.

There is some helpful Allegro information here:

Allegro | Swiss Bicycles | A website about Swiss Bicycles

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rustystrings61 

Craig Griffith, who did the aforementioned Swiss bicycles website, was very helpful to me as I tracked down information on my c.1974 Allegro. I trawled the net seeking info, because mine does not conform completely to normal standards for these bikes, at least as known in the examples that were imported into the U.S., but his information was a good point of departure for me.

For really old Allegros, I would say start here and then look at this one and this one and most especially at this one, which makes my little heart go pitter-pat.

I spent a lot of time studying this one at the Steel Vintage Bikes site.

This gentleman's adventures in restoring his Allegro is a good site; also, this one.

From obsessively studying Allegros all over the 'net (there are many more out there), it seems to me that by the early 60s, if not earlier, they used both Nervex Professional and Bocama model 14 pattern II lugs in both chromed and painted finishes, usually with with Vagner PL flat-topped crowns. The 531-tubed Allegros, anyway, used Campagnolo ends and came stock with the same driveside chainstay cable stops; brazed on fittings for rear brake cable stops and housing stops for use with bar-end shifters appear on machines built over a wide time span too, which makes me think those touches were tied to specific models.

rustystrings61 

Just for the sake of future searches, in case anyone wants to start compiling serial numbers and features -

Serial no. 241247 (on lozenge brazed onto seat tube) - 60cm c-t, 59cm c-c top tube; Bocama model 14 pattern II lugs; Vagner PL flat-top fork crown; George Fisher sand-cast BB shell marked "+GF+", ; Campagnolo 1010 long dropouts; fluted semi-wrapover seat stay tops; 72-degree parallel head and seat tubes; 26.6mm seat post diameter; metric-gauge 531 tubing; Nervor 22.0mm ID/25.0mm OD steerer tube threaded 25x1 metric with French-style flat area; 34mm headset stack height; approximately 105cm wheelbase (41.25-in). Drilled for headbadge, which is not present; ball-end/diving helmet chainstay cable stop; no other brazed-on fittings. Equipped with the distinctive seatpost binder bolt seen on Allegros, Mondias and Cilos.

Repainted black; no traces of chrome; no traces of original finish;

Tentatively dated 1974.

Just because every thread should have pix, and until I take some better detail shots -

[IMG]IMG_4782_zps1qqpsbjb by Russ Fitzgerald, on Flickr[/IMG]

SN, as found photo -

[IMG]IMG_3827_zpsmrnahiad by Russ Fitzgerald, on Flickr[/IMG]

juvela

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motogeek -

Here are some images saved from an auction listing of what appears to be a late 1950's Special model. Does your find resemble it at all?

rhm

If you look at all the Allegro threads you'll find mine, which came with Campy hubs, cone dates 58 and 59, so I assume the bike is from about 1960. My serial number is six digits,165167. So if yours has only five digits, I'm going to guess it's quite a bit earlier than 1958, unless Allegro seriously upped their production numbers right around then (which is of course possible).

motogeek 

Juvela, Rusty and rhm, I have a bunch of pics that I took with my cell phone that I could send to you if you are interested. Unfortunately, I can't get them downloaded to my computer so all can see them. If you want to see them, send me an email with your phone and I'll be glad to forward them on to you. There's some interesting parts on this bike, like the old Simplex RD and alloy pedals unlike any I've ever seen. My email is: dbgard531@yahoo.com. Thanks for you responses, Dave

motogeek 

rhm, the serial number on this bike is, in fact, 5 digits, but they begin with "99...", so they aren't far from being 6 digits. The current owner seemed to think it was a `1959 or thereabouts.

rhm

Yeah, I understand that; what the previous owner says is not to be taken lightly.

On the other hand, if we accept the dating of the the two serial numbers presented so far, that is rustystrings61's serial number 241247 = 1974, and mine 165167 = 1959, and assume the yearly output between those dates was approximately steady, then that's about 5000 bikes per year. If we assume yearly output was similar in the years before that, then this pushes your serial number back to 1945 or so.

Obviously that's a very rough way of coming up with a very approximate guess at the date. We need more data, and I'm sure it's available.

rustystrings61 

We keep thinking Allegro's serial numbers are sequential and logical. I am not so sure. Looking at the speedbicycles bikes, we find -

No. 7 Tour de Suisse dated to 1936 with serial number 6347 on the left rear dropout (behind the axle) and fork crown

No. 7 Tour de Suisse dated 1937 with serial number 16464 on the left rear dropout (between the seat and chainstay junctures)

No. 7C Weltmeister, also dated 1937, with serial number 101370 on the left side seat tube - unfortunately, we don't get a photograph to confirm it is the now familiar lozenge on the side of the seattube.

Now there is also a track bike labeled "Allegro Piste Special" with NO markings except for the lozenge serial number 225909 - someone who knows their track parts could probably better determine the date on this bike. I suspect it is later than 1950 ....

rhm

Yup, that is certainly a valid point.
The Campagnolo seat post was introduced in the late 50's, for what that's worth.

rustystrings61 

The gentleman and cyclist and cycle-collector organizing the BERGKÖNIG this weekend in Switzerland (!) has very kindly sent me links to some Allegro catalogs -

Swiss Bicycle Catalogs ? kickintonextgear

and Allegro Prospekt 40er Jahre &laquo Veloklassiker.ch

Hopefully, more information will emerge about Allegros - they are apparently heavily featured in this year's event!

edit - don't miss this one!

rhm

@motogeek sent me his photos and I have put them up on Flickr for everyone to enjoy. The link is here.

It's a beauty!

The brakes are Weinmann side pull calipers with large block WEINMANN lettering on the arms. The rule of thumb with Weinmann brakes is that the letters got smaller over time. These are earlier than the late 50's.

Nice fork crown! It appears the brake return spring is bent around the arm of the caliper. By the late 50's the end of the spring was straight, and it rested against a little knob forged into the back of the arm. So again, I don't know the exact chronology but these brakes are earlier than the late 50's.



Maybe someone knows enough about Simplex derailleurs to comment on the gearing. Does that derailleur really have only one pulley wheel? If so, it might be a Champion du Monde Extra Leger


I'm currently thinking this bike can be no later than the late 1940's.

rustystrings61 

I think this bike is pre-war. First, compare the lugs, fork blades and crown and rear dropouts with this bike, identified by its Swiss owners as a 1937 No. 7C Weltmeister. Motogeek's bike has the same lugs, just not chromed; what looks to me like the same dropouts and forks. Both bikes have Durax Supercourse cranks with hollow spindles and early Weinmann sidepulls with the wraparound springs rhm described.

The Weltmeister pictured, no. 101370, has its serial number on the left side of the seat tube in the location Motogeek's bike does (and the vast majority of Allegros one encounters). Motogeek's bike is 2,254 earlier than the identified and dated '37 Weltmeister. I earlier pointed out the odd serial numbers and different locations on the '36 and '37 Tour de Suisse models on the speedcycles site, but could those be an early custom shop product, with different procedures? Maybe built so that there were NO additional brazed-on fittings, including the sn lozenges? (The '37 is in original finish with zero braze-ons, the '36 has been repainted and I am not sure of what to think about the brazed-on pump peg).

Then go to the 1940s Allegro catalog here and look at page 9 of the No. 73 Special Sport Extra Light and read the specs - 531, 56cm, 3 speed, two brakes, etc. Then go to the c.1950 Allegro catalog flyer here and look at the No. 72 and 73 bikes on the second page. Finally, go to the 1963 Allegro catalog here and look at the No. 72G Super Luxe. Note that the 1940s and 1950 catalogs mention variable gearing but do not depict it.

Major bike lust here, by the way. That is a beautiful machine!

Amberg

Allegro database ... does one exist?

YES

Over the last then years I collected frame numbers and pictures of old Swiss bicycles as I always wanted to know their age. Beside in the internet I found lots of old bicycles at Swiss railway stations and in Swiss collections and museums. Meanwhile I have a huge database with old Allegro, Mondia, Condor, Cilo, Tigra and many other brands. Valuable information I also got from old Swiss bicycle newspaper which date back as far as 1889.

According to my data base the serial number 99116 is from 1946 (90%) or very late 1945.

Best regards from Switzerland
Michael

unworthy1

This is really nit-picking but we would not call that "capsule" shape braze-on that Allegro used for serial numbers a "lozenge" since that's technically a diamond (or rhombus) shape. I understand the idea that it's also what we call cough drops since the very first of those were cut in a diamond shape and this panel could also look like a (more modern) cough drop or other medicine...like a capsule.

OK my nit-picking is done so let me also say it's great to see some progress with getting a handle on Allegro serial numbers and that Michael (Amberg) has complied one (care to share a link to that, Amberg?)

rhm

that bothered me as well but I didn't want to be "that guy"! I've also seen the thing called a cartouche, for what that's worth.

I imagine they could easily mass produce a few thousand serial number plaques and be sure of legible non-repeating numbers, ready to be brazed on.

juvela

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Have always termed it "the ingot"; how does that sound to everyone?

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JoeBass

Hi Michael, and welcome to the forum!

Sounds like you're the man we've been looking for! What date would you place on Allegro #235909 ?

Thanks much,
Joe

droppedandlost 

Craig Griffith also helped date my Special to "1961-ish", #167974

motogeek 

Hi Amberg, welcome to the Forum and thanks so much for your contribution to this thread.

The current owner of this bike seems to think it is from the early '60s but the consensus here seems to be much older than that. He has the bike for sale but I can't talk much about that here or else this thread will get bumped into another category by the facilitators. so I'll just put my email here if anyone wants to contact me. It's dbgard531@yahoo.com.

Amberg

lozenge, capsule, the Ingot - that's all fine for me.
I just call it the "Allegro plate" or "Allegro serial number plate".
By the way, it was introduced in around 1940 when petrol was rationed and swiss bicycle production was at its peak.

Amberg

Hello Joe

Thank you for your welcome.
I love your jerseys – pretty cool.
I have to sort out my allegro data of the seventies as there are plenty of misleading data. For the moment I would say 1970 or 1971 with 70% probability.

regards
Michael

JoeBass

Thanks very much for the information, Michael! Someday I hope to ride my Allegro around Switzerland as a side trip after taking it to Eroica in Gaiole.

juvela

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Pllgrimage to Neuchatel!

In '87 I used a '60's era Allegro Special frameset to build a touring bike for a friend. She actually took it on a trip to CH but did not visit the factory.

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