timebomb

Wanted to get my first "real" bike (I've only ridden hi-tensile steel bikes in the past) so I stopped by a local shop. I was only browsing and started asking about the bikes and the salesperson starts telling me about what they had. I laid eyes on a Surly Midnight Special and thought it was the coolest looking bike I'd ever seen. As I looked closer I noticed the price tag and realized that I'll likely never own this bike. I think the salesperson saw how taken I was by this bike though I had made it clear I couldn't afford to buy this bike and tells me to take it for a test ride. My jaw nearly hit the floor as I couldn't imagine a store letting a browser who had no intention of buying the bike take it for a ride. The salesperson reassured me that this was fine and so I took it for a spin...

I've never felt so good riding a bike in my life and didn't know cycling could be that much more fun. I felt like a king riding that thing. It felt super smooth on pavement and some bumpy grass (there was no gravel around) and the shift was so smooth and responsive. I know that this bike isn't light at 25 lbs. but compared to what I've normally ridden it felt like a feather.

Long story short I'd love to get a bike that could make me feel like that again and it seems like the Midnight Special qualifies as a gravel bike. Like I said, I can't afford to drop $2,000 on that bike but I think I could save up and spend upto $1,000. Anyone have suggestions on bikes I should look at? A bike that's caught my eye is the State Bicycle Co. 4130 All-Road. I don't know anything about reading geometry but the MS I tried was a 54 and it felt great. How would the State in compare? (I tried to post links to the specs for ease but can't due to my post count.)

Edit: thought I’d add more info that might be useful for getting good advice.

Use is 90% road / 10% dirt. The roads where I live are in really rough shape due to the freeze and thaw during the winters so a “cushy” ride is important to me. Because of this and my experience with the Surly, some things I’m looking for are:

Steel frame
650b wheels
Drop bars
Mechanical disc brakes
Mounts for a rear rack

jo_lacs

Maybe you should go and try out more bikes, something closer to your target price range.

Hackman61

For about $1000 you could get into a Salsa Journeyman gravel bike. I absolutely love mine and ride it on pavement, trails, gravel and even do a little commuting with it. Most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. The MS looks really enticing but I'm with you...$2000 is pretty steep for me. I was pushing the envelope with my wife at $1000. Actually I think I got the Salsa for 849.00 before tax license and extra fees.

mstateglfr 

Diamondback Haanjo is back in stock and has a model for under $1000.

Breezer has an offering under $1k too - https://www.the-house.com/qbzradexp5...hoCM-4QAvD_BwE

Fuji Jari has a model to look at, Cannondale Topstone sora is worth considering, and bikes direct has tons of models under $1000.
Save up to 60% off new Disc Brake Road Bikes - Gravity Liberty CXD | Save up to 60% off new road bikes

Who knows what is in stock as that is often the bigger issue vs price.
Look at geometry charts and compare to the Surly MS. Look at stack height, reach, and head tube angle as 3 general points for comparing.

tdilf

You could also look at the used bike market - this is where I typically start when hunting for a different bike. Also go to shops and try other bikes to get a better feel for what you do and do not like.

mack_turtle

Midnight Special geometry
State All Road geometry
plug in the geometry numbers for any two or three bikes that interest you at Stack and reach calculator
the State bike does not have as many size options, so you'll need to play around with stem and saddle positions to make it fit. the medium 51cm State is closest to a 54cm Midnight Special.

Elvo

https://www.poseidonbike.com/products/redwood

timebomb

Yeah I should do that. Thanks!

I looked up the Salsa Journeyman and that's a great suggestion! I am leaning towardsa 650b tire and mechanical disc brakes so this is great. I guess I'm coming in at the end of the season as every store within 100 miles of me is out of them. They all said the next year's model won't come out until Spring 2021.

Thanks for the suggestions and the tip on geometry. I realize that I'd like to go with 650b out of the gate to get a cushier ride so those bikes don't hit the mark. I'm also willing to wait to get the right bike as this is a major purchase for me.

I think my issue with used bikes (Craigslist) is that I don't know what to look for. I'll definitely check out more shops, though!

I wasn't able to get bikegeo to load but I found bikeinsights dot com which had a bunch of the geometry pre-loaded which was cool. Thanks for the tip! I know all the numbers are different but the main things that catch my eye are that the Midnight Special has a longer seat tube shorter head tube which gives it a flat top tuber and the State a sloped top tube. How drastically would the State ride be from the MS because of that?

Thanks for the suggestion! I think this ticks all the boxes for me but the seat tube is a lot more drastically angled toward the read of the bike. How would this affect the ride compared to the Midnight Special?

mack_turtle

for some reason, my link didn't work. it's well worth using that tool. you're flying blind without it. just type in bikegeo.net into your browser.

mack_turtle

somehow posted this link in the wrong thread. sorry for the confusion.

mstateglfr 

Did I miss where the conversation turned to threaded forks? I need to go back and read again.
Anyways, I have one of these and love it. Fantastic fit and finish. a BF member is who designed the innicycle product. One thing to note, the only site it is sold is Amazon per the creator. It is listed for half the cost on your link so it is a scam/fake.

Here it is on a shakedown ride. This updated 80s frame is a touch too small, so it is nice that the innicycle has a lot of stem mounting space to allow for a good fit on this frame size. It also can easily be cut down just like a threadless stem

timebomb

I ended up finding and using bikeinsights which had the geometries pre-loaded which was really helpful. I did type in bikegeo dot net and it works now. I like how you can compare 3 bikes on bikegeo so I'll give it a shot with the three bikes that are my frontrunnners: the State All-Road, Marin Nicasio +, and Salsa Journeyman 650 Claris.

I don't follow...

I missed it too =)

mack_turtle

yeah, I screwed up and posted that link in the wrong thread. there was a totally separate thread were someone was asking for a way to convert a bike with a 1" threaded fork to 1-1/8" threadless.

zen_

If you really liked the Surly, the Kilo GX R20 from bikesdirect with a Reynolds steel frame and GRX drivetrain is pretty similar for $1K if it comes back in stock ever. Kinda has weird geometry by modern standards, (long, flat top tube), but so does the Surly. I don't know why bikesdirect can't just make a gravel bike with normal geometry...not that hard to just copy it from elsewhere.

The Giant Revolt 2 (alloy) is also a great bike for the money, but it looks like the price went up $150 to $1150 this year with no improvements (most major brands are bumping up prices).

billm67

I know it's tough because everything in out of stock...but if at all possible try to ride the bikes you're looking at. The Surly bikes are know for great ride which is partially due to the steel frames. If you buy a bike with the same geometry but with an aluminum frame...it's going to feel very different. Not bad...just different. I'm riding a steel frame Jamis gravel bike and I love the ride.

timebomb

Kilo sounds promising. I’ll keep an eye out for it. I like the look of flat top tubes; is there a disadvantage to them, though?

I won’t be able to try out the State which is my front runner because of price and looks but I should be able to find the Journeyman when they eventually restock. I might also be able to find the Nicasio though I may have to travel a couple hours to do so.

Because of my experience with the MS I am definitely leaning towards a steel 650b bike.

l3m4nt

I would try and check second-hand-market. Make a list of some brands/bikes you like and check on a daily basis (even Facebook marketplace for example).

timebomb

Good idea! I think used bikes are selling at a premium right now but I’ll keep an eye out anyway.

zen_

The Surly and Kilo both have fairly short head tubes, which combined with the flat (rather than sloping) top tube means you end up with less seat post, and more headset spacers compared to a modern gravel bike that has a sloping top tube with longer head tube. Less seat post = less dampening, and more spacers is mostly just a look thing I guess unless you're extremely flexible (bikes now have a mile of seat post with slammed headset). The wheelbase is also about 20mm shorter, and the BB drop is about 10mm less than a modern gravel bike. Those two things just mean it will be a bit less stable at speed in a straight line.

Not to say it's a bad bike though, plenty of people have Surly's that they ride into the ground and love.

Russ Roth

Also check out the Kona Rove, test road one, really loved the color and ride of it, probably should have bought it and done the upgrades I wanted as it really is a nice bike.

Darth Lefty 

The price on the Surly does seem pretty high. They usually do. There’s an up charge for the brand name and it their frames are well made with a lot of features. Good steel bikes are springy and it has big tires which explains the ride. I wouldn’t compare it directly to a Journeyman or Haanjo. They’re both aluminum and less premium. They are not going to have that ride, not that they’re bad, just that they’re different.

You could get on the Salsa Surly Trader group on Facebook or just used in general. The predecessor with rim brakes is called Pacer and also nice. Soma makes nice steel road bikes too.

If you wanted to pursue it there’s a market segment from the 70s-80s called sport touring bikes that fits the bill, though obviously they’re all old now and the shifting is harder, they do have that springy pillow ride. Lots of mid-late 70s Japanese bikes fit the bill. This is also the sort of bike Trek started out making before they got huge.

timebomb

Checked out the Rove AL 650 and it looks like another good option. I want to try all the bikes on my list but especially these aluminum frames. I haven't ridden one before and woud love to feel what the difference is.

Yeah, definitely want to try riding aluminum before buying. Thanks for the heads up on the FB group! I put in a request and would love to find a good used bike. I'll also keep an eye out for sport touring on marketplace and craigslist.

Wow, thanks for the lesson on the geometry! It's cool to hear about how all the different measurements affect the ride.

guadzilla

You can get a custom steel frameset for about $500 plus shipping from someone i know, and then add your parts to it. You'll probably end up a few hundred dollars over $1000 but you should get a very similar ride.

PM me if you are interested (to be clear - i have no vested interest in this. The guy made me a frame, he's a really good person and a very good builder, and i like to support his fledgling business).

timebomb

Not a bad idea but I don't know what I want in a frameset yet. I think this could be a good option for me in the future though.

timebomb

Well, my top two bikes ended up being the Marin Nicasio + and the State All-Road. Each have a steel frame, 650b wheels, drop bars, mechanical disc brakes, and mounts for a rear rack. Here's how each compare with the Midnight Special:

Nicasio +: https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geo...ce960017b54566
All-Road: https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geo...d21d001799bd97

The Nicasio looks very close to the MS while the All-Road is a little bit longer. I'm leaning towards to All-Road because I can get it sooner (end of Sept. vs. end of Nov), a little less money and more convenient ($835 shipped vs. $900 in at the nearest dealership 3 hours away), and I like how it looks better. Are there reasons why you think I shoud go for the Marin instead?