njkayaker

These sorts of impressions are not reliable. Even with lots of Canadian, they probably constitute a very small percent of the population.

skye

I dunno, maybe you don't need to because cycling isn't very dangerous to begin with?

Maybe you should just ride your own damn ride?

And if you're gonna try and talk safety to me without a mirror on your handlebars, I'm gonna laugh in your face.

njkayaker

Odd.

Wanderer

Federal Code covers flashing lights, (a flashing ight goes completely off) which are illegal. Modulating lights are OK on motorcycles and bicycles. Modulating lights never go completely off, and are suitable in daylight only. Valid in every state in the Union.

That being said, I do use my strobe in heavy traffic. Other than that, it stays off in daylight.

Helldorado

Flashing lights on bicycles are illegal where?
Surely not in the US where that's pretty much the only type of daytime light cyclist use.
So, which code is this of which you speak?

billyymc

There's a reason you see more and more motorcycles with pulsing front lights.

livedarklions

I live in NH where there's a really large number of motorcycles (many to and from Laconia, which is a route I often ride on my bicycle), and literally none of the cycles I've seen this year use those during the day. Pulsing lights are illegal after sunset..

mrv 

pulsing ≠ strobing

i remain un-convince-able that on a MUP, a bright strobing headlamp (bar lamp? helment lamp? front lamp?) (350 lumin? 700 lumin? kinda subjective...) is a good idea as a DRL. it's not. it's not needed. it's poor etiquette. it's annoying.

cycling as part of car traffic, i think it's a bad idea strobe 1000 lumen at on coming traffic.
a pulsing or steady beam - fine. 75 lumen or 150 lumen as a DRL, pulsing - fine. DRLs for cars are about half-bright and don't pulse. pulsing for motorcycles, probably a good idea for DRLs. Motorbikes tend to blend into background traffic (not sure why - it happened to me a couple weeks ago - thankfully he was an astute rider and i caught him in the corner of my eye at a last second and i had a nice big smooth shoulder to drive in - AND we went to the same store so I had an opportunity to apologize!)

did we get all off topic on this? seems like from the OP to where this ended up, it's all off topic. probably my fault.
it's the internets:

cheers! now get out there and ride safe-like!

billyymc

mrv - agree with you pulsing is differnet from strobing.

On the rare occasions I ride on a MUP I turn off all my lights..not needed for the MUPs I ride (rarely).

If I could get a lower lumen pulsing front light that would be great, not sure they exist. I usually run mine steady on low, but if I'm concerned about battery life I'll strobe it. Or if I'm really concerned about being seen - I've had cars pull in front of my as I"m descending middle of the lane at 40mph, so if my strobe annoys them I'm happy about that.

livedarklions

I probably don't disagree with any of that, but with the caveat that if the strobe is too bright and fast, it makes your position hard to ascertain, and might be asking for the oncoming driver to underestimate your speed descending. If this were just a matter of annoyance, I wouldn't care, but the really bright/fast ones do have a disorienting effect, and it's not something you can demonstrate to yourself by viewing your non-moving bicycle from the front. I have no idea what level of brightness and how fast you're strobing, I just know I've seen bikes where it's clear that riders have the balance between visibility and disorientation all wrong.

Milton Keynes

I agree, on a MUP or rail trail, there's no need for daytime lights at all. Daytime lights are primarily to get vehicle drivers to notice you, and using any kind of light during the day on a trail is useless, IMO. Dusk, dawn, or nighttime, sure. Use a non-flashing headlight and a non-flashing taillight so other riders can see you. But during daylight hours I see no reason to use lights where there is no vehicle traffic.

mrv 

i have an old CYGOLITE that has a pulse mode - like this one, but I think 350 lumen max: https://cygolite.com/product/metro-400-usb/ (if you're thinking of buy another - mine has been pretty multiple drop resistance so far, but something inside is loose)
The site states:
SteadyPulse™ alerts night time motorists with pulses while constantly lighting your path

And right below that:
"DayLightning™ flash mode increases output to lightning-like flashes for increased rider safety in peak daylight" -- what 'ave i been complaining about!!!????!!!

wphamilton

I have to wonder, have you observed generally stronger driving skills from Canadian drivers, relative to Florida natives?

​​​​

63rickert

OK, now imagine the oncoming rider has two strobe lights mounted, each on a different speed and pattern. He’s riding with two buddies, who each have similar lights, all on different speeds and patterns. Two hundred yards behind them is a bike with 3000 lumens flashing at high speed. Can you imagine that riders or drivers facing this onslaught are disoriented? Someone who rides in the wilds of New Hampshire may never see such a display, it is every day every ride where I live. Further, might you imagine that some of us are neurologically different and will be more annoyed than you are? That this is physically painful? And no actual medical condition required, some of us have lived entire lives with no problems with flashing lights until the bicycle strobes arrived.

livedarklions

Ummm, Nashua and metro Boston where I normally do most of my riding in non-COVID times are hardly "wilds."

No idea why you're aiming this diatribe at me, I was saying that the fast bright strobes are disorienting. What makes you think I'd suggest that grouping them together wouldn't make this effect worse?

Sort the thread out a bit, I haven't disagreed with you once and am very sympathetic with your position on this.

63rickert

Addressed to your attention perhaps because you seem to still have an input device attached to your brain. Not much point is saying anything to those who merely repeat what they read in an advertisement, an advertisement that was peddling fear.

Minutes of each ride are now spent with one hand off the bars shielding my eyes from oncoming strobes. In traffic it can be minutes in a row. That is not the safest way to ride. Shielding eyes from strobe flash means much else that is happening on the road will not be seen.

No possibility any longer of riding at night. No possibility of riding with a group. Decades of habit riding early a.m. Saturday and Sunday are over because there are just too many cyclists with the high power lights. Better to ride later in day and face more car traffic.

One too common event that occurs around here is groups of bikes riding the wrong way on a one-way while all using strobes. Traffic comes to a halt right where they are. I will dismount and move to curb or parking lane if I can. Do not really think those riding the wrong way down a one-way are thinking of safety. As they go by these groups are always laughing, making remarks about cagers. If cars honk those cars will be pummeled. It gets difficult to have positive feelings towards those who use strobes.

10 Wheels

I use DayTime Strobes to Compete with The Drivers on Cell Phones.
I need to get them to Pay Attention to the Roads.

rossiny

Holy smoley complicate o,,, the only thing I will add to this discussion is that once when I was very young and first started driving , It was in a dark side street and as I pulled away from the stop sign at the last moment I noticed a biker had crossed my path. I guess he didn't stop at the stop sign. I did not see him at all. I guess he had no reflectors at all , no Blinky or no lights of any kind ,, so I guess a night especially lights are definitely absolutely a must. Had I not slammed on brakes I would have hit him.

frizzen

I don't know of any federal code banning flashing lights. Without a citation I'm skeptical. Here in California flashing white is not legal. Flashing red is OK in back, and flashing amber anytime anywhere anyplace. That said flashing white front lights are commonplace and tolerated by the police.

CA vehicle code:
ARTICLE 4. Operation of Bicycles [21200 - 21213]

(d) A bicycle operated during darkness upon a highway, a sidewalk where
bicycle operation is not prohibited by the local jurisdiction, or a
bikeway, as defined in Section 890.4 of the Streets and Highways Code,
shall be equipped with all of the following:

(1) A lamp emitting a white light that, while the bicycle is in motion,
illuminates the highway, sidewalk, or bikeway in front of the bicyclist
and is visible from a distance of 300 feet in front and from the sides
of the bicycle.

(2) A red reflector or a solid or flashing red light with a built-in
reflector on the rear that shall be visible from a distance of 500 feet
to the rear when directly in front of lawful upper beams of headlamps on
a motor vehicle.

(3) A white or yellow reflector on each pedal, shoe, or ankle visible
from the front and rear of the bicycle from a distance of 200 feet.

(4) A white or yellow reflector on each side forward of the center of
the bicycle, and a white or red reflector on each side to the rear of
the center of the bicycle, except that bicycles that are equipped with
reflectorized tires on the front and the rear need not be equipped with
these side reflectors.

The reflectors and reflectorized tires shall be of a type meeting
requirements established by the department.

(e) A lamp or lamp combination, emitting a white light, attached to the
operator and visible from a distance of 300 feet in front and from the
sides of the bicycle, may be used in lieu of the lamp required by
paragraph (1) of subdivision (d).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ARTICLE 7. Flashing and Colored Lights [25250 - 25282]

25250. Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise
permitted.

25251. (a) Flashing lights are permitted on vehicles as follows:

...

(every type of vehicle except a bicycle is listed)

...
25268. No person shall display a flashing amber warning light on a
vehicle as permitted by this code except when an unusual traffic hazard
exists.

(when I ride at night I don't see many bicycles - so I'm "unusual", and I'm moving slower than traffic so that's a hazard).

25269. No person shall display a flashing or steady burning red warning
light on a vehicle except as permitted by Section 21055 or when an
extreme hazard exists.

njkayaker

You aren't making sense here.

​​​​​​Just because you can say stuff doesn't make it true.

Helldorado

Just goes to show that: 1) not every law is based on common sense and true utility, and B) most vehicle codes are designed with automobiles in mind - the rest of us must adapt to the cars' convenience.

Law or no law, I'll never stop using a flashing forward strobe during the day. Sorry if that "annoys" drivers, bt my life is more important than their minor annoyance. At night I switch it to a stead beam, aimed at the pavement about 15 feet in front of me.

63rickert

Some posters here claim they are just unaffected by flashing lights in their face. Maybe. Personally I doubt that it is is physiologically possible to just have no response to a flashing light. But to those who say it doesn’t bother them, fine, I will believe you. Now will you please listen to those who say it does bother them? Because lots of us are more sensitive than you claim to be. On popular bike routes I pull over all the time because I can’t see the road, just a sea of flash. This never happens to me for Mars lights, for flashing advertising signs, for large groups of traffic barriers with flashing lights, for multiple fire trucks, basically only happens with bike lights. For the brightest lights cars pull over and stop. Which is just not safe and happens all the time.

Most flashing lights, even the strong ones, are not strobes. When the flash has pattern, when the bike is running two, three, four patterned lights, when there is a group of riders running flashing lights, when there are multiple flashing red taillights directly in front as well as flashing white lights oncoming in the other lane, the distinction between strobe and flash is a distinction without a difference.

Locally 95% to 99% of bike lights are aimed up. Even those with the German lights that have beam patterns with a sharp horizontal cutoff aim them up.

I only wish bike lights topped out at 1000 lumens. When facing two riders abreast each running at least three lights above 1000 and all of them aimed up it is just like facing a big truck with brights on. Doesn’t happen where you live? Lucky you.

Elbeinlaw

63ricket: Essentially what you're implying--and I think it needs to be said explicitly--is that the person with the lights is not adjusting their lights because its good form them, they're doing it for themselves, they're doing it for others. Which is to say: Be responsible enough to take the other guy into consideration.

That seems to be lost these days in all of the yelling about "MY RIGHTS".

Helldorado

It's a matter of perspective. When automobile drivers stop killing cyclists and then shrugging "Gee, I never saw him..." then cyclists will stop using bright flashing lights. Until then, flash on!

63rickert

What you just said is you don’t care about any but yourself.

It is plain difficult to focus on a flashing light and determine if that light is near or far. Confronted by a sea of flashing lights a motorist is going to judge badly which visual detail matters. Your ‘flash on’ makes us all unsafe. And you don’t care.

This thread is defining solipsism.