Bah Humbug

What do you do when you can't put out enough power to make your heavier/ less aero bike go as fast as your lighter/ more aero bike?

Dean V

What is the make and specs of the 7.2kg bike?
It seems very light for an off the shelf disc bike, unless you are getting into the high end stuff.

ZHVelo

It is a Rose Reveal Six Disc, they brought out an update this year. Rose are an old German bike company, they do mostly online sales like Canyon but they do have a few stores in Germany, and just opened one in Zurich this year and I went to test ride it. And it does feel that light and actually good on the road.

AlmostTrick

When I go for a ride it's for a set distance. Heavier bike means it will take longer or I'll have to push harder.

If you ride with a group you're riding the same distance and time as everyone else.

Of course a heavier bike will be a harder workout in these two real world situations. Explain how they could not be?

Edit: How are my two common examples not how many people ride in the real world?

Sy Reene

You ride for a longer period of time at that max power you evidently hit?

I actually agree with Sced on this.. somehow the discussion got to be about destination-less timed training plans. Many road cyclists go out to ride a route.. eg. with a friend, club or solo. Finishing the route on a heavier bike, assuming you're expending the same avg wattage, will take longer, so more of a workout. If you're on a club ride, and you complete the club ride at whatever speed the ride leader goes, having done so on a heavier bike means your workout was greater than on a lighter bike.

WhyFi

So the same bike on the same course is the same kj expenditure every time? And in group rides you don't spend more time or less time at the front depending upon on how gassed or how fresh you are?

Cool stories.

TMonk

How much do I care about bike weight? Not that much. Most modern carbon (or aluminum) race bikes are not going to hold me back in any real world competitive situation. I'm 66 kg and about 310-315 w FTP when I'm going good, but I've never been a big FTP guy and at my level I'm certainly not a climber. I have an easier time pushing my self when I'm feeling some speed, and prefer over/under type efforts like breakaways and TTT. My biggest goals over the last couple yeas have been TTT related.

If I was better at climbing, I might mind bike weight a bit more, but I'm not so, meh.

WhyFi

Do you ride at the same intensity on 20-mile rides as you do on 100-mile rides? Of course not. Do you ride at the exact same intensity on a given route every single time you ride that route? Of course not.

People naturally vary their intensity and a 2 or 3 lb difference in frame weight is miniscule compared to the range of work that you can do by deciding to do more or less by varying your intensity. I have a short 18-mile loop that I ride on my 'off' days - on the same bike, I've ridden that route while expending energy in neighborhood of 500kj and I've ridden it expending energy in the neighborhood of 900kj; finishing that route while averaging the same power on two different bikes, one a few pounds heavier than the other, will result in an difference of energy expenditure that's an order of magnitude smaller.

Didn't we have to go over this with you on another thread, maybe the 'pro sprinter' one, with regard to racing?

Bah Humbug

You're free to be as wrong as he is. I have to be home in time for work in the morning, so those rides are time constrained. That can't be an especially rare situation - I know lots of people have to be back in time for work or family obligations, errands, etc. That may not apply to you, may not apply to him... but it's not a rare thing.

ZHVelo

Just checked both quoted weights are 1 frame size below what I would need.

Racing Dan

Its a lot cheaper caring about rolling resistance and drive train losses than weight, and the potential gains easily surpass saving a few hundred grams off of the frame.

Of course 1.2 kg does make a difference if you are chasing KOMs or race for positions, but its really not that much unless you are battling for the top spots. Have no idea how fast you are but at a brisk ascent rate of 1000 m per hour 1.2 additional kg takes about 3.3 additional Watts to maintain the same speed. That is easily within the scope of exchanging normal butyl tubes to latex or swapping the tyres and such.

Rides4Beer

Not much real world difference between my 18lb road bike and my 22lb gravel bike. Chasing weight is mostly for bragging rights, a couple of pounds on the bike isn't going to be earth shattering when it's just a small percentage of the overall system weight (rider/bike/water/etc.). All else being equal (fit/handling/etc.), get the bike that you think looks better.

Maelochs

Tons.

ZHVelo

Seems little, especially for steep climbs, the steeper the more weight matters.

There is a reason many riders yesterday changed from TT bikes to climbing bikes.

canklecat

Weight hasn't made much consistent difference on my road bikes. I'm equally slow on the old school 24 lb steelie, the early 1990s carbon fiber bike that weighed 20 lbs last year (currently disassembled for rebuild) and newer 18 lb bike.

But our rolling terrain doesn't have enough continuous climbs for a lighter weight bike or wheelset to matter much, at least not for me.

Too many minor differences in fit too. My old steel bike has a 172.5 crankset, the '93 Trek 5900 had a 170 crankset (might change that during the rebuild to 172.5), and the newer Diamondback has 175, which feel odd. It's hard to find a natural rhythm and it feels like I'm fighting the bike. Not sure I want to buy another Ultegra crankset so I'm just gonna live with it for awhile.

I usually prefer the steel bike just because it's familiar and set up perfectly. But looking at my data last year when I mostly rode the Trek 5900, I was about 0.5 mph faster over the same 20-40 mile routes. So, sure, a little difference. So far with the Diamondback, I'm slower if anything, mostly because I don't have the fit tweaked to my liking yet.

I thought carrying extra junk in the larger seat bag would matter a lot, but it hasn't. On longer rides with the steel bike I usually carry two spare heavy duty tubes, a multi-tool, CO2 kit, etc., in a Serfas Speed Bag wedge bag. On the carbon bikes I tend to carry a smaller Lezyne Road Caddy underseat bag, a single Conti Race 28 Light tube, all less than half the weight... and there's very little difference in average speed. It *feels* lighter and faster on the carbon bikes. But that doesn't translate to consistent increases in speed or decreases in time.

If I had to carry my bike upstairs, I'd probably ditch the steel bike and keep one of the carbon fiber bikes.

I really need to ride farther west of town where there are longer and steeper hills (there are no mountains anywhere around here) and see if the lighter bikes matter.

popeye

Stop digging.

popeye

A light bike is just more fun and the lighter you are the better. I build my own bikes except for that track bike and weight is at the top of the list.

Racing Dan

Seems little? How so? What I wrote is true, no matter if you believe it or not.




At 1000 m per hour you are ascending at 1000m/3600s = 0.277 m/s. It takes 3.3J of energy to lift 1.2 kg 0.277m. Therefore the power to lift 1.2 kg 0.277 meter in one second is 3.3W and therefore the additional power to maintain an ascent speed of 1000m per hour is 3.3W if the additional weight is 1.2kg.

delbiker1 

I can only say not as much as I used to. I like to be comfortable on my rides.

ZHVelo

Well how much is that in speed? I input this on 8% grade and if you go 310 watts over 3km you save 9 seconds with 1.2kg. To me that just feels more than 3 watts might indicate. I was never questioning your numbers, I was merely saying "seems", because yes, 9 seconds sounds better than 3 watts.

Racing Dan

9S is about right. As i said before, its significant if you are racing or chase KOMs, but to the average cyclist, not so much.

scuzzo

best find some of that weightless water thats all the rage... because when you strap 2 600ML of water on the bike that 15 lbs bike is a porky 17.... you are back to the good ole cannondale caad 4 and litespeed times.... lol

ZHVelo

Everyone is chasing KOMs somehow. I am currently on a climbing program to improve my PR on my local climb. Not to mention on all the Alp passes, those 1.2kg add up.

ZHVelo

But my gear would be the same on either bike. Also, going for climbing PRs on my local hills I don't take water bottles.

asgelle

Why don't I need water with a caad4 or litespeed?