36 Hole Wheel Build for 1982 Mike Appel
#1
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36 Hole Wheel Build for 1982 Mike Appel
Hello; looking for any suggestions on the wheel build for my 1984 Appel.
Originally spec'd with '82 pat'd Campy SR. Most of the components were destroyed so I'm rebuilding with NOS SR from same year/era.
I have a NOS 36H low flange SR hubset ready to go and am looking for a good period correct clincher rim to build around. This will be a very lightly ridden bike. There's a pair of Rigida 36h HLC 2000 on ebay now that look correct (anodized). Any thoughts on this rim?
I imagine tubulars would be most correct; in which case I'm open to suggestions as well.
Thank you.
Originally spec'd with '82 pat'd Campy SR. Most of the components were destroyed so I'm rebuilding with NOS SR from same year/era.
I have a NOS 36H low flange SR hubset ready to go and am looking for a good period correct clincher rim to build around. This will be a very lightly ridden bike. There's a pair of Rigida 36h HLC 2000 on ebay now that look correct (anodized). Any thoughts on this rim?
I imagine tubulars would be most correct; in which case I'm open to suggestions as well.
Thank you.
Last edited by kanawa; 01-10-20 at 03:21 PM.
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Looks to be a good, eyletted, hard-anodized rim. I doubt you'll have problems with an NOS pair.
Any pics of the Appel? He's somewhat of a local legend here.
Any pics of the Appel? He's somewhat of a local legend here.
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I think I would favor optimized braking over period correctness in selecting my rims. What I mean is that I would go with a machined sidewall rim over a period correct one that did not have this feature. As far as I know, machined sidewall rims were not available in 1982. Newer rims are better in other ways as well - the rim joint is smoothed out on the machined sidewall so there is no possibility of getting a mis-match thunk thunk sound during braking. Also the extrusions on modern rims are stronger, making it less important that you have 36 spoke hubs. Since you do have 36 spoke hubs, if you went with a modern clincher rim such as a HED Belgium, a Velocity A23 or Quill (for example) - you could have your wheelbuilder use lightweight butted spokes to save a little weight and (maybe) give a slightly more resilient ride.
Since you want your 1982 Appel to look period correct and you have already spec’d the Campagnolo Record 36 hole low flange hubs, I would recommend either the Velocity A23 in special order polished finish to match the high polish of the Campy hubs. These look “trick” in a timeless way that to me is period neutral. They are also tubeless compatible. If you decide to set them up tubeless you simply need tubeless tape and a proper valve in order to mount your preferred tubeless tire and sealant. I’ve been saying for a while (and hoping someone would realize the potential) that vintage road bikes would be the perfect test “steed” to avail itself to the many advantages that wider road tubeless tires could offer.
If I were you I would take some measurements of wheels mounted to your Appel, then calculate if you are able to run 25’s, 27’s, 28’s or even 32’s. Even if you are limited to just 25’s the wider internal width modern rim (with or without a tubeless set-up) is going to corner, grip and roll just great.
If you learn that your frame has the clearance for wider tires like 28’s or 32’s, the Velocity Quill might be even more of a good thing compared to the A23. You can still special order it in polished silver (so retro cool!), plus it has even more internal rim volume and slightly more external width with no increase in weight. Your Campy 36 spoke hubs matched up with these Velocity Quills would be a marriage made in heaven. They will look the retro part but brake better and permit better tire choices making them a win-win.
My my current favorite tires are Challenge open tubulars with latex inner tubes. These come with tan sidewalls so they are very retro looking in that color scheme. Or they come in blackwalls which is what I have. The tread wraps around in a semi-circle, the ride is different from your everyday Continental Grand Prix 4000 type road clincher. One review I read said they were (significantly) slower than the Conti and to be avoided. All I can say is I find them to be wide, tactile in a tubular kind of way and a tire that will reward the person willing to run latex tubes and experiment with accurately setting your tire pressure lower based on taking notes and trial and error.
I suppose the rims I am suggesting might be ruled out based on price. The polished models are special order, have a lead time of 6 or 8 weeks and cost $30 more each. You might not want to put nearly $300 into a set of rims that still need spokes, nipples and labor. The polished rims are non-anodized BTW so they are a bit prissy. I mean they are a bit higher maintenance, if you ride in the rain the aluminum will spot. This situation is easily resolved by using Mother’s mag wheel polish on a paper towel followed up with some carnuba wax of your choice. They do scratch quite easily too, so if you are a person who tosses his bike in the back of a pickup to drive to your ride, these may not be for you.
I suppose if you were entering your vintage bike in some vintage bike, period correct type of judged classic bike show, you might get a demerit or two for the Velocity rims. But dang, the modern rims to me are so much better performance wise, compared to the options we used to have.
Since you want your 1982 Appel to look period correct and you have already spec’d the Campagnolo Record 36 hole low flange hubs, I would recommend either the Velocity A23 in special order polished finish to match the high polish of the Campy hubs. These look “trick” in a timeless way that to me is period neutral. They are also tubeless compatible. If you decide to set them up tubeless you simply need tubeless tape and a proper valve in order to mount your preferred tubeless tire and sealant. I’ve been saying for a while (and hoping someone would realize the potential) that vintage road bikes would be the perfect test “steed” to avail itself to the many advantages that wider road tubeless tires could offer.
If I were you I would take some measurements of wheels mounted to your Appel, then calculate if you are able to run 25’s, 27’s, 28’s or even 32’s. Even if you are limited to just 25’s the wider internal width modern rim (with or without a tubeless set-up) is going to corner, grip and roll just great.
If you learn that your frame has the clearance for wider tires like 28’s or 32’s, the Velocity Quill might be even more of a good thing compared to the A23. You can still special order it in polished silver (so retro cool!), plus it has even more internal rim volume and slightly more external width with no increase in weight. Your Campy 36 spoke hubs matched up with these Velocity Quills would be a marriage made in heaven. They will look the retro part but brake better and permit better tire choices making them a win-win.
My my current favorite tires are Challenge open tubulars with latex inner tubes. These come with tan sidewalls so they are very retro looking in that color scheme. Or they come in blackwalls which is what I have. The tread wraps around in a semi-circle, the ride is different from your everyday Continental Grand Prix 4000 type road clincher. One review I read said they were (significantly) slower than the Conti and to be avoided. All I can say is I find them to be wide, tactile in a tubular kind of way and a tire that will reward the person willing to run latex tubes and experiment with accurately setting your tire pressure lower based on taking notes and trial and error.
I suppose the rims I am suggesting might be ruled out based on price. The polished models are special order, have a lead time of 6 or 8 weeks and cost $30 more each. You might not want to put nearly $300 into a set of rims that still need spokes, nipples and labor. The polished rims are non-anodized BTW so they are a bit prissy. I mean they are a bit higher maintenance, if you ride in the rain the aluminum will spot. This situation is easily resolved by using Mother’s mag wheel polish on a paper towel followed up with some carnuba wax of your choice. They do scratch quite easily too, so if you are a person who tosses his bike in the back of a pickup to drive to your ride, these may not be for you.
I suppose if you were entering your vintage bike in some vintage bike, period correct type of judged classic bike show, you might get a demerit or two for the Velocity rims. But dang, the modern rims to me are so much better performance wise, compared to the options we used to have.
Last edited by masi61; 01-06-20 at 02:57 PM.
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@masi61 I don't think the strength of the extrusion is an issue here. The Rigida rims are pretty "new" in terms of vintage rims. They're heat-treated and probably not very different in strength from whatever Velocity uses.
I have some 80s hard-anodized Wolber Alpine rims that are similar to the Rigidas, and they brake very well.
I have some 80s hard-anodized Wolber Alpine rims that are similar to the Rigidas, and they brake very well.
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@masi61 I don't think the strength of the extrusion is an issue here. The Rigida rims are pretty "new" in terms of vintage rims. They're heat-treated and probably not very different in strength from whatever Velocity uses.
I have some 80s hard-anodized Wolber Alpine rims that are similar to the Rigidas, and they brake very well.
I have some 80s hard-anodized Wolber Alpine rims that are similar to the Rigidas, and they brake very well.
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Mavic G40 would be perfect. Or Mavic GEL 280 or 330 for tubular.
Photo from CR.
Not a machined brake track.
Photo from CR.
Not a machined brake track.
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Last edited by Classtime; 01-06-20 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Added pic
#7
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I am going with some Velo Orange rims to get the vintage look, but allow for wider tires as my frame can handle it. I thought they looked quite nice and would match the shiny hubs you have. I am mating mine to some high flange Campy hubs. But they would probably be more expensive than your NOS Rigida's.
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#8
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#9
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thanks; i have some Velocity on my modern titanium gravel racer and love them. I destroyed the rear in a crash and they were very helpful in replacing it. The gravel bike is spec'd for pure performance (weight, braking, aero, etc.) whereas the Appel is primarily (lightly rideable) art (at least for me). Thanks for the thoughtful advice.
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#11
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Updated: My bad, didn't see the detail for Clincher rims. I only used tubulars.
Late, joining during Covid.
Ambrosio Synthesis ~ 400g (best Ambrosio at the time)
Ambrosio Montreal ~ 350g
Ambrosio Crono ~ 300g (TT/Criterium)
Mavic GL 330 (330g) similar to Ambrosio Montreal.
Mavic GP 4, Amateur's SSC, good training rim
1982 Appel with Synthesis rims
Best rims at the time: Mavic SSC, Ambrosio Synthesis, Mavic GP4/GL-330, Ambrosio Montreal/Crono were most popular tubular rims of the time. I had them all except for the expensive SSCs.
Late, joining during Covid.
Ambrosio Synthesis ~ 400g (best Ambrosio at the time)
Ambrosio Montreal ~ 350g
Ambrosio Crono ~ 300g (TT/Criterium)
Mavic GL 330 (330g) similar to Ambrosio Montreal.
Mavic GP 4, Amateur's SSC, good training rim
1982 Appel with Synthesis rims
Best rims at the time: Mavic SSC, Ambrosio Synthesis, Mavic GP4/GL-330, Ambrosio Montreal/Crono were most popular tubular rims of the time. I had them all except for the expensive SSCs.
Last edited by bg18947; 09-16-20 at 10:20 AM.
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#12
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Don't forget the Pacenti Brevet in 700C if you are entertaining current-production clincher rims. Old-school look, but not as heavy as many others:
EDIT: Oops, just noticed this was an old thread. @kanawa , any updates?
EDIT: Oops, just noticed this was an old thread. @kanawa , any updates?
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Last edited by ThermionicScott; 09-16-20 at 09:57 AM.
#13
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How much are you going to ride this bike? If it's for very occasional use, race weight tubulars are fine. If you're going to ride it regularly, training weight tubulars or clinchers are more appropriate.
For tubulars, I'd suggest a GP4. A very reliable standard training rim. Came out in 1978 and were widely used. They are still something that can be found NOS.
For clinchers, frankly I'd use a new Sun M13II or H+ Son TB14, and pull the stickers off. For vintage, Mavic G40 or MA3 or Super Champ Gentlemans, if you can find them NOS.
I'm not too enthusiastic about building up used rims.
That was a transitional era AFA the polished silver vs black/anodized thing. You can do whatever you prefer in that regard and still be period correct.
Oooops. Zombie thread Alert!!!
I already typed it so it stays.... Maybe useful to someone.
For tubulars, I'd suggest a GP4. A very reliable standard training rim. Came out in 1978 and were widely used. They are still something that can be found NOS.
For clinchers, frankly I'd use a new Sun M13II or H+ Son TB14, and pull the stickers off. For vintage, Mavic G40 or MA3 or Super Champ Gentlemans, if you can find them NOS.
I'm not too enthusiastic about building up used rims.
That was a transitional era AFA the polished silver vs black/anodized thing. You can do whatever you prefer in that regard and still be period correct.
Oooops. Zombie thread Alert!!!
I already typed it so it stays.... Maybe useful to someone.
#14
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Yeah, it was around 81/82 that all the hard anodized/heat treated rims marketing came on strong. The Mavic SSCs were the gold standard. Last clinchers I used were the Weinmann concave rims that I had on my Raleigh Super Course before ordering my first custom bike and riding only on tubulars. Fiamme rims were popular at that time. I remember the gold ones on the Bianchis. I remember ordering a pair but sold them because they were way too light for me to feel confident riding around NYC.
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Nice! You must have your wheels built by now😉
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
#17
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I got the Rigida clincher rims but also have a pair of NOS Fir Rigel tubular rims...the hubs are also ready. Don't have the spokes yet. There's some NOS DT Swiss on ebay - any thoughts on spokes? Everything on this bike is period SR, Cinelli, etc.
#18
Member
I've built many wheels, and I happen to get a bad batch of nipples with DT spokes. I've been lucky with Alpina spokes. Just the luck of the draw. Nice Appel, take some close ups of the lug work on yours. Here are some pictures from my album I just put up.
Overdue maintenance and full cleaning during COVID-19
Reinforced chain stay bridge
Another close up of lug work, keep in mind almost 38 years old.
Reinforced brake bridge
Older Davida Font of Logo
Drilled fork dropouts
Overdue maintenance and full cleaning during COVID-19
Reinforced chain stay bridge
Another close up of lug work, keep in mind almost 38 years old.
Reinforced brake bridge
Older Davida Font of Logo
Drilled fork dropouts
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#20
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Head tube lug work is different along with the fork crown I saw in the other picture. BB shell, chainstay and seat stay bridges look the same as mine. When you put your bike together, let me know if your top tube slopes down. Mine does. Not sure if that is by design. No SN stamped anywhere on my bike. I know he used Cinelli lugs and BB shell. Mine has a pattern of sorts. I'll try to take a picture when I bring it outside. I don't think the bike has seen the sun in 20 years. But, I plan to start riding it again.