Question about pro sprinters
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Question about pro sprinters
Why do they have problem on climbs? They put out alot of power during the sprints but struggles in the mountains. Someone like Caleb Ewans weight no heavier than other climbers, Others I would have thought its because of their body weight but the power that those legs can do should even things out.
Likes For cheesesandwich:
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,752
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4390 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times
in
1,865 Posts
wrong forum. Belongs here: https://www.bikeforums.net/professional-cycling-fans/
short answer: explosive short bursts of power are physiologically different from long efforts at high power/weight.
short answer: explosive short bursts of power are physiologically different from long efforts at high power/weight.
Likes For MinnMan:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,515
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,512 Times
in
1,510 Posts
Different types of muscles.
Likes For seypat:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
It's basically the same reason that Usain Bolt would never win a marathon.
Likes For caloso:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 10,879
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
Pro sprinters are a lot faster than most amateur racers on the climbs. Maybe twice as fast as recreational club riders. However, if they are not going to contest the GC or KOM, they are not going to go all out on the climbs. They want to save their energy for the sprints.
Likes For johnny99:
#6
Le Crocodile
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Santa Barbara Calif.
Posts: 1,873
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 370 Post(s)
Liked 787 Times
in
311 Posts
If they changed the rules and required that you complete the Tour to retain your sprint victories............................watch how those sprinters would magically sprout wings!
Cipollini would cash out on cue once it went to the mountains for example.
Cipollini would cash out on cue once it went to the mountains for example.
#7
Senior Member
Just out of idle curiosity, does anyone have a idea of what kind of wattage a pro sprinter is capable of generating?
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,515
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,512 Times
in
1,510 Posts
Likes For seypat:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,957
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Ibis Ripley AF, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 878 Post(s)
Liked 726 Times
in
436 Posts
They aren't slow, especially not at the World Tour level. They're just not quite as fast as the fastest climbers in the world. If the climbers are riding at or beyond threshold, then of course those with lower sustained W/kg are going to blow their doors off if they tried to keep pace.
I believe it was Michael Woods (EF) who mentioned during TdF commentary he did on FloBikes how literally every World Tour rider are among the best in the world at riding in all conditions and are the best in the world at one type (sprinting, flats, breakaways, rolling, etc). He mentioned being at one-day races wheezing up a steep climb only to turn and see Andre Greipel spinning calmly, breathing out his nose.
I'm told (since I don't pay attention to this sort of thing) that many Strava climbing segment KOMs in my area are still owned by Tyler Farrar, a sprinter and the last American to win a stage at the TdF, even though he stopped syncing his rides years ago.
I believe it was Michael Woods (EF) who mentioned during TdF commentary he did on FloBikes how literally every World Tour rider are among the best in the world at riding in all conditions and are the best in the world at one type (sprinting, flats, breakaways, rolling, etc). He mentioned being at one-day races wheezing up a steep climb only to turn and see Andre Greipel spinning calmly, breathing out his nose.
I'm told (since I don't pay attention to this sort of thing) that many Strava climbing segment KOMs in my area are still owned by Tyler Farrar, a sprinter and the last American to win a stage at the TdF, even though he stopped syncing his rides years ago.
#11
Senior Member
That is in-freaking-credible. On a good day, I might get to half that for maybe 10 seconds.
#12
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 492
Bikes: Historical: Schwinn Speedster; Schwinn Collegiate; 1981 Ross Gran Tour; 1981 Dawes Atlantis; 1991 Specialized Rockhopper. Current: 1987 Ritchey Ultra; 1987 Centurion Ironman Dave Scott Master; 1992 Specialized Stumpjumper FS
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked 178 Times
in
111 Posts
They aren't slow, especially not at the World Tour level. They're just not quite as fast as the fastest climbers in the world. If the climbers are riding at or beyond threshold, then of course those with lower sustained W/kg are going to blow their doors off if they tried to keep pace.
I believe it was Michael Woods (EF) who mentioned during TdF commentary he did on FloBikes how literally every World Tour rider are among the best in the world at riding in all conditions and are the best in the world at one type (sprinting, flats, breakaways, rolling, etc). He mentioned being at one-day races wheezing up a steep climb only to turn and see Andre Greipel spinning calmly, breathing out his nose.
{snip}
I believe it was Michael Woods (EF) who mentioned during TdF commentary he did on FloBikes how literally every World Tour rider are among the best in the world at riding in all conditions and are the best in the world at one type (sprinting, flats, breakaways, rolling, etc). He mentioned being at one-day races wheezing up a steep climb only to turn and see Andre Greipel spinning calmly, breathing out his nose.
{snip}
#13
Newbie
Thread Starter
I don't mean to say they are slow. But at times they they have to work very hard to be in the time limit of the race. But the videos and sprinter vs marathoner make sense,
Likes For cheesesandwich:
Likes For rubiksoval:
#15
Full Member
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,752
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4390 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times
in
1,865 Posts
[QUOTE=rubiksoval;21695620]Same as good amateur sprinters.
/QUOTE]
Is that right? The strongest guy I ride with regularly hits 1200 or 1300 watts on his sprints, but that's 5-10 seconds. He's a cat 3 on his way to cat 2, but that's a LONG way off from 1000+ watts for more than a minute. What are typical 1 minute watts for an amateur cat 1/2 crit sprint?
/QUOTE]
Is that right? The strongest guy I ride with regularly hits 1200 or 1300 watts on his sprints, but that's 5-10 seconds. He's a cat 3 on his way to cat 2, but that's a LONG way off from 1000+ watts for more than a minute. What are typical 1 minute watts for an amateur cat 1/2 crit sprint?
#17
Full Member
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
Is that right? The strongest guy I ride with regularly hits 1200 or 1300 watts on his sprints, but that's 5-10 seconds. He's a cat 3 on his way to cat 2, but that's a LONG way off from 1000+ watts for more than a minute. What are typical 1 minute watts for an amateur cat 1/2 crit sprint?
hitting 1,480w on his way to his maiden Grand Tour victory at the 2018 Giro.
With average of 1070w over the 17-second sprint,
and this
average power of 1,100w for the 16-second sprint that concluded the stage, hitting a max of 1,310w
The Colombian surged ahead of Sagan with a 1,200w effort for 22 seconds, hitting a maximum output of 1,440w.
The difference, as mentioned, is when and after what they occur.
Looking at one minute power of a cat 1/2 in a sprint doesn't really tell you anything unless it's a super long, drawn-out uphill sprint, as everyone is trying to draft and negotiate packs/corners/etc for most of that last minute.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
Hardly any pro sprinters are anywhere close to 2,000 watts at the end of the race. Griepel is probably the hugest and most powerful and is one of the only guys close to that.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,752
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4390 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times
in
1,865 Posts
Likes For rubiksoval:
#22
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,637
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4736 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
At the same time, imagining say a 130 mile flat stage, what type of rider wins? Isn't answer who can sustain the most avg wattage over the longest period of time? So if sprinters do badly on climbing stages but better on flat stages, if the climbs were longer would the sprinters win?
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
At the same time, imagining say a 130 mile flat stage, what type of rider wins? Isn't answer who can sustain the most avg wattage over the longest period of time? So if sprinters do badly on climbing stages but better on flat stages, if the climbs were longer would the sprinters win?
Likes For caloso:
#25
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,637
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4736 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts