doubleoh2

Greetings, trying to track down more info about my favourite ride, a Conti by Ciocc with Dedalo Acciaio tubing. These tubes look like they have been plaited, or pressed to look like they have. Sticker on left chain stay reading Ciocc by Conti, Serial No: 0079. I have come across various Contis, track and road, but before an obvious afiliation with Ciocc as the 'C' is not the Ciocc 'C'. My fork crowns have Conti pantographed. Anyone out there even heard of these frames? Please help! Cheers,

unworthy1

That's all new to me but very interesting, and should be of interest to all the Ciocc fans in this forum. I've never seen that Dedacciai crimped/shaped tubing before on any frame, it's...an acquired taste, I reckon. But the details on the top tube are very familiar to anyone with a Concorde frame, and further evidence that the contractor was the same on both (and now all 3) of these marques. What more can you tell us about Conti? A house brand? Where located?

unworthy1

I did a little googling and found the 2007 catalog for "Nuova Conti & Ciocc" with plenty of CF plastic bikes and such, but also the familiar Ciocc logo us old guys are familiar with. I've never heard of a "Conti " bicycle before, whether Nuova or Vecchio...is this an EU-only brand? The company currently seems to be located in Bergamo.

doubleoh2

The info I have about the relationship between Ciocc, Conti and Concorde are vague at least. I have also seen Concorde track frames with the same swoosh decals, and also a Ciocc with virtually the same colour scheme, albeit an unlugged frame. 'Astore' is Italian for Goshawk. Does anyone know if the factory is still at the same address? I may have to make a pilgrimage...

unworthy1

Here's what the internet says;
NUOVA CICLI CONTI & CIOCC S.R.L.
PIAZZA DON GANDOSSI N°8
24040 OSIO SOTTO - BG
Tel 035808977
Fax 035808593
https://www.ciocc.it/

ollo_ollo

The "pleated" tubing looks similar to that found on some models of Titan bicycles but on the Titans, the pleating didn't continue at the tubing ends, which were smooth. Titan was a Swiss Mfr. that had frames built in Italy to their specs during 1988-1992 using Columbus Chromor, SL, SLX, Aelle & Thron tubing. No one seems to know who the builder was. Some posters speculated the pleated tubing was a way of thinning straight gauge tubing into double butted or maybe just done to strengthen double butted tubing. There were quite a few pictures illustrating the pleated tubing in the Titan bikes thread lost in the BF server crash. I restarted the thread & there are some pics there. Here's a pic showing the tubing. Don

unworthy1

Thanks for the pic, ollo-ollo, I guess that the Titan builder may have used Dedacciai tubing as well as Columbus, unless somebody can say whether Columbus ever offered their tubes embossed like this. I'd speculate that it has nothing to do with thinning straight-guage tubes into butted tubes, but looks more like another variation on the "shaped" tube fascination that started with Gilco. I know that was supposed to offer some sort of specific strengthening, but I always thought it was really just for appearances, and you either like it or you don't...I don't Still, I'm fairly sure that it doesn't spoil the ride. Maybe this can start another controversial thread topic: anybody with a bike that has "shaped/crimped tubing" notice anything unique about the performance of that tubing compared to a standard round tubing of equal quality?

ollo_ollo

The Titans were reported to be built with Columbus tubing, I have 3 frames & one has a Columbus Chromor decal on it. Some Titan frames had Campagnolo dropouts, others had Columbus dropouts. Since Dedacciai was founded in 1993 & the Titan frames were built 88-92 I would doubt they used Dedacciai but since Titan had financial problems & ceased production with large #s of frames undecaled, who knows?

ollo_ollo

My Titan only has the pleated tubing on the top & down tube. The seat tube & head tube are smooth. The ride is good, similar to other frames made with light weight steel, some flex near BB but not like a frame built with Columbus SL.

doubleoh2

I honestly don't think the pleating tubes offer any stiffening advantages, I will agree they are for appearance. I will say, however, that the Conti is the most superb ride out of my 6 steel frame roadies. The angles are all spot on, power transfer, intergration with all the Campy gear, I stuck the Ducati decal on the top tube for a good reason!

The Conti's plaits on the top tube start in front of the seat post and continue into the headtube, start about a quarter of the way down the seat post and continue into the BB shell. The headtube is not crimped. The down tube crimps start near the gear bosses.

Thanks ollo-ollo for the pic of the Titan.

doubleoh2

What make tubing does the Titan use, ollo-ollo?

jet sanchEz

I'd always understood that Concorde and Ciocc were seperate companies with a shared distributer in the Canadian market, perhaps it is the same for all of North America? Perhaps that same distibuter handled the Conti account as well?

They do look similar as far as paint styles go, perhaps part of the distribution of the frames was a new paintjob for the North American market? If that were the case, maybe the frames from all three companies were done by the same painting company?

edit: I remembered an old eBay auction with great detailed pics of a Concorde that has that same Italian flag on the top-tube and within the auction are some links to information about Concordes and their relationship with Ciocc. The seller and the links both indicate that Concorde commisioned Ciocc to make bikes for them so it probably stands to reason that Conti did the same thing. I guess the companies did their own bikes too but for the higher end stuff, Ciocc got the job.

https://cgi.ebay.com/CONCORDE-made-by...QQcmdZViewItem

doubleoh2

Thanks jet sanchEz, yes, the Italian flag is concurrent, also the same bridge between the two chainstays. The cable routing is the same also. Attached is a pic from FGG I found of a Concorde with the same swoosh as the Conti and also the above Ciocc Enemy.

ollo_ollo

As far as anyone knows, based on those that had decals, they were mostly Columbus tubing with a few in Reynolds 531, but the majority had no decals applied. Those with decals were: 531, Chromor, SL, SLX, Aelle & Thron. I have 3 Titan frames: 2 had no decals, Italian thread bottom brackets & 126mm Campagnolo rear dropouts. One had a Columbus Chromor decal, English thread BB, 130mm Columbus rear dropouts & the frame was fully chromed under the paint. The bare frames weighed 4 pounds, 4.5 pounds(the one with pleated tubing) & just under 5 pounds for the one that is chromed. The 4 pound frame is flexier than the other 2. Don

unworthy1

I'd be curious if the bike(s) with the pleated/crimped tubing have steering columns with the tell-tale rifling that would indicate "Columbus". I realize that many Titans were sold with no fork, but that Conti should have the stock fork that came with the frame. Or maybe I'll email a pic to Deda and see if they will ID the tubing as their own...I'm just curious.
To put a too-fine point on this: based on mostly hearsay and other people's knowledge, it seems that Ciocc (Sr. Pellizoli) didn't actually have his own frame-building shop, but always had them built to his specs and to-order. Around the mid-eighties when the style of Cioccs changed from the more "classic" Designer 80, Mockba style to one that featured less chrome, internal cable routing, more investment-cast fittings, fastback stays, the Concorde group (based in Benelux) comissioned "Ciocc" to build and supply their bikes from the same Italian shop. Conti (wherever they are based) apparently did the same, I don't have info on them as this is the first I've seen that marque. One expert on the bicycle industry (who knows WAY more than I ever will) guessed that these mid-'80s to '90s Ciocc and Concordes were built by Billato, a huge and high quality frame contractor who built for dozens of marques. (Concorde also sourced Aluminum frames from other suppliers, too) That's my story, and I'm sticking with it...until proved wrong, again.

doubleoh2

Thanks unworthy1, very interesting. The Conti does have the stock fork with a pantographed CONTI in the crown, similar to the Concorde and Ciocc et all. What do you mean by rifling? In a couple of places the crimps end in shallow grooves which continue along the tube for a short distance. So Deda are still in existence? Pardon my ignorance, but I am very keen to find out as much info on this marque and the frame as I can. Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

doubleoh2

Would the cycling team Cicli-Conti Firenze be relevant in anyway?

unworthy1

Yes that would, and it might explain the fleur-de-lis on your bike's seat tube, it's the symbol of Firenze (we'd say Florence) and I know there must be another word for the fleur-de-lis in Italian, but I don't know it.
The "rifling" is something you can look and feel for in the base of the steering column, the part brazed into the fork crown. There are 5 raised ridges (small and not very high) on the inside of the steerer's tube, and they spiral similar to the grooves cut into the inside of a rifle barrel. Columbus has used this feature on all the SL, SP, SLX and TSX tubesets and perhaps on into the present day. It still isn't absolute proof that a tubeset is all Columbus, but makes it a strong likelihood. Deda is definitely still in business, and still making steel alloy tubing.

doubleoh2

Wow unworthy1, thanks, that's awesome. The CCF website is in Italian, would you know somewhere I could find out more info on that particular club? Maybe the Conti is, as you said, an in-house marque or maybe a commission by the club? Also, would it be suitable for me to email Deda with some pics of the crimped tubing on the Conti to see if it is familiar to them? Mucho Gracias!

unworthy1

I already emailed Deda with those pics, but no reply yet. Go ahead and email them too if you want, maybe they'll think that there's a crowd of fanatics clamoring for info. Just a guess but the presense of "Nuova Conti" linked with Ciocc on the current website makes me think there's more going on than just a team or club that contracted for Ciocc to build bikes for them...seems like a partnership. That club/shop in Firenze seems to be a different "Conti" than the Ciocc-Conti, there's a reference to a Mario Conti, and they seem to favor Colnagos for selling and riding...I'll google some more and if anything turns up I'll post it.

classic1

A family friend used to import Conti frames into Australia in the mid-80's. They were nice frames but weren't anything super special to my (then teenage) eye either. Same script as the OP's frame IIRC, but no Ciocc reference either.

As many posters here know, outsourcing is quite common in the Italian bike industry. I don't know if Conti was just a name or had a factory. If I see the guy and remember I'll ask him.

If anyone follows the pros you may be interested to know that Conti were frame sponsor for an Italian pro team (Santini-Conti-Galli) in the mid 80's (I had the team poster - otherwise I would never have known about the team!). Former Tour de France winner Lucian Van Impe rode for them in 1985. A very young Neil Stephens rode for them in 86 and IIRC David Cassani rode for them in 84.

unworthy1

Thanks for that post, classic1, it's always good to expand the information base.

doubleoh2

Nice 1, classic1, that's fantastic! Thanks, I bought the bike as a complete from a guy in Double Bay, Sydney a few years ago, he said he got it from a pro who used it as his training ride. So there may be mor eof them in Oz floating around? Would be very interested in finding out... Would you be able to point me in the direction of a website that may have more info on the Conti Galli team? Cheers very much!

classic1

A pro? Who was the bloke?

Heres the stuff on the team. The title sponsors change but the frames are generally Conti and the equipment Galli (I feel sorry for the poor bastards having to ride that equipment).

1984
1985
1986

This bloke, Elio Festa, rode from them most of his career. Note in 83 they were on Ciocc frames, then went to Contis later on.

doubleoh2

Not sure of who the guy was, it was a Thursday morning, I woke up and thought... I'm going to get the Trading Post and score myself an Italian steel road bike today! A few hours later I was in Double Bay picking up the Conti! It had an adapter post in the forks and usual colourful roadie rubbish all over it... Horrible anodised Ambrosio rims etc. Lost his details now. Down on New South Head Road. Thanks again for your help, classic1.