Koyote

I have fond memories of my old Smith-Corona typewriter.

tomato coupe

It matters. The cogs line up the way they do because each cog has a unique orientation which is dependent on where it is in the stack.

WhyFi

Pffft - you know Mo' is slightly off-kilter.

Fer why? Is the custom bike going to be more All-road than Gravel?

Bah Humbug

That was always the case (will go with Enve gravel fork).

The driver here is that one of AG's friends wants to take us out graveling when her Topstone is ready (right after Xmas) and while the route is very mild and people apparently do it on 28s... this tri geek isn't tackling it on 28s, which means not on my R2. It would be handy to have two copies of the same bike (easier for me to learn how to keep them maintained) and could also serve as a foul weather bike. Threaded BB, and cheap. And they have a warranty-replacement in my size in last year's black in the shop that went unclaimed that they're trying to scare up parts to assemble.

That could also let me try to just defer the steelie until Shimano sorts themselves out and I see what this FUTURE OF CYCLING is. Shop owner also told me that Argon18 (admittedly a smaller brand) was told they won't get any Shimano parts until October. It'll be 100% SRAM for them until then.

Kimmo 

If you're gonna make a dumb operating system analogy, then fine, rim brakes are Windows: anyone can come along and figure it out. The way it works is obvious, and there's usually more than one way to do anything. But discs are Macs: it's all tidy and sleek, and Windows expertise isn't worth a damn because it all works differently. Furthermore, noobs can't see any obvious corners to pick at in order to get started figuring it out. Basic stuff may be straightforward for the most part, but as soon as things get tricky it's inscrutable because all the nuts and bolts are hidden.

But gee it's slick, and all the cool kids had one.

Bah Humbug

And some people like Windows and Linux and can't backpedal away from OSX trash fast enough.

Cyclist0108

Others recognize that both Linux and OSX are unix operating systems that have far more in common with one another than they do Windows.

ericcox

I'm new to Di2, but have to say my favorite things so far are...

1) Shifting under load easily and effortlessly2) The clean cockpit3) Shift quality

Shift quality is last because I'm coming from 11 spd 105 which shifted beautifully when in tune. When it got of tune, adjusting could be a pain. The front derailleur on Di2 shifts much, much better. And I don't think twice about shifting out of the saddle under load. I could on 105, but it is much better on my new bike. So far, I can't imagine going back.

Bah Humbug

What's under the hood doesn't define the OS. It remains true that the Apple one pisses me off every time I touch it and Linux doesn't.

What's this thread about again?

tomato coupe

Steel bikes from the 80s with tubeless tires, disc brakes, 1x electronic gearing, and waxed chains, and why they're better without power meters or drop bars.

Kimmo 

Money holes being burnt in pockets, innit?

Seattle Forrest

Well I was making the point that people don't get intimidated or frustrated or whatever trying to figure out something they've already learned to do. But I enjoyed your rant mightily.

Cyclist0108

Yeah. The color of the desktop and logo is far more relevant.

Kimmo 

Or maybe, a sensible paradigm where you can get stuff done with the mouse, instead of having to bust out a command line shell...?

Branko D

I really do look forward to having that 10t cog, I'll be able to have a compact and yet have the same top gear as a current 55/11 when I want to push it on a descent, yet have the gearing for the really steep stuff, too. That alone is going to be a reason to go with 12 speed DA when it's time for the next bike some years down the line.

Nice to hear it's wireless, too.

HTupolev

I place a "sort of" qualifier on that. It's very easy to get rim brakes to do something that vaguely resembles correct operation. But setting them up to work well can be elusive. Pad choice, geometry of pad and caliper placement, housing and cable choice and prep, housing routing... all things that cyclists and mechanics frequently do sub-optimally. If the brake has centerpull cabling, there are plenty of bonus degrees of freedom to screw up with, plus yolk setup, and extra potential for steerer judder if the front brake cable is stopped at the upper headset race or higher. And if you want a setup with lots of power, the margins on all these things get tighter: high mechanical advantage amplifies the feel of any sponginess in the setup and requires very close tolerances between pads and rim.

Hydraulic discs tend to be harder to get to a level of basic operation, but there are fewer opportunities to introduce poor braking performance.

Bah Humbug

Try again.

Bah Humbug

I think that "harder to get to a level of basic operation" is a valid reason to call it "harder", along with the addition of new tools and techniques. I did note that for the first few years road disc was breaking (natch) out, the bikes with them here in Austin were usually either squeaking or howling. It's gotten better, but not all the way.

And once, I had to adjust my wife's brakes through the fence at an Ironman transition. No way I could have done that on disc. It might have also not needed it, but hard to tell.

WhyFi

Yup. This is the kind of stuff that I was getting at.

Agree with the second bit, generally disagree on the first bit. For buyers of complete bikes, this should be a non-issue. Even if you're building, it is, again, generally a non-issue; most of the current generation of Shimano hydraulic levers/calipers are being sold with hoses installed and pre-bled, with a coupler to join the two - no messing with olives, barbs, bleeding, etc... unless you take it upon yourself to be difficult and do some more challenging routing for aero handlebars and the like (as I did ).

Cyclist0108

Why waste my time?

WhyFi

Better analogies?

Bah Humbug

That and demonstrating an understanding that a kernel is not an operating system.

phrantic09

That’s what makes popcorn right?

WhyFi

Yeah, that's what the thread needs.

Cyclist0108

It is not an analogy. Both Linux and MacOSX (or 11) are unix operating systems. OS X is more closely related to BSD unix, but they are rather more similar than different.

Windows is quite different.

If you want to invoke superficial visual similarities (the windows GUI is based on a variant of the X11 windowing system that Linux uses -- and which, incidently, also works perfectly fine on OS X), feel free, but it is like creating phylogenetics based on organism color rather than DNA sequences.