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Track Cranks

Old 10-17-17, 02:47 PM
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carleton
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Track Cranks

I figure a single thread on the topic might work...let's see...
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Old 10-17-17, 02:51 PM
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What's the word on the ROTOR 3D crankset?

Rotor Bike Components

I've never seen a set much less used one. They are now stock on the complete Felt TK1. SRM also offers a them as a ROTOR Track SRM kit.

Are these supposed to be better than the standard Dura Ace style SRM track cranks?
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Old 10-17-17, 05:11 PM
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I never understood the marketing of the rotor track crank, -- since their company philosophy started as basically a re-make of the bio-pace system

the industrial appearance fits the look of a modern frameset though I suppose
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Old 10-17-17, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
What's the word on the ROTOR 3D crankset?

Rotor Bike Components

I've never seen a set much less used one. They are now stock on the complete Felt TK1. SRM also offers a them as a ROTOR Track SRM kit.

Are these supposed to be better than the standard Dura Ace style SRM track cranks?
Three of my friends use them, each of them beasts putting out above 2k watts. Two use the Rotor SRM and one's on regular rotor cranks, and they all claimed they were the stiffest cranks they could find. One had a Dura Ace SRM prior, one swapped from Sugino 75s, and one had regular DA.

They're all sub-11 guys competing at a reasonably high level - British nats, Euro champs, so I doubt they'd use gear of ambiguous efficacy.
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Old 10-17-17, 07:14 PM
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I don't like the method they use for fixing the spider, seems a bit fragile for the application. Have a friend with one that worked loose.
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Old 10-17-17, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SyntaxMonstr View Post
Three of my friends use them, each of them beasts putting out above 2k watts. Two use the Rotor SRM and one's on regular rotor cranks, and they all claimed they were the stiffest cranks they could find. One had a Dura Ace SRM prior, one swapped from Sugino 75s, and one had regular DA.

They're all sub-11 guys competing at a reasonably high level - British nats, Euro champs, so I doubt they'd use gear of ambiguous efficacy.
Thanks!

BTW, SRAM Omnium are undoubtley stiffer than Dura Ace AND a lot less expensive to boot, yet they didn't take over at the higher levels. Stiffer doesn't mean better.

Maybe a better question is: If something were to go wrong, what would be the issue?
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Old 10-17-17, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
I don't like the method they use for fixing the spider, seems a bit fragile for the application. Have a friend with one that worked loose.
....and there is an answer
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Old 10-17-17, 08:26 PM
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I have a Power2Max power meter which uses the Rotor 3D crankset. In discussions with them to get different length crankarms, they said that their track power meter uses the road crankset. Works fine for me but I'm not a high power sprinter.
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Old 10-17-17, 08:49 PM
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Square axle and octalink cranks have a bb spindle that is less than 24mm in diameter. The spindle diameter helps with non-drive side stiffness. This Road bike cranks test might be useful for some to understand crank stiffness and which factor can affect stiffness.

So cranks like the:
Sram Omnium 24/22mm spindle
Sugino SG75DD 24/22mm spindle
Rotor 3D Track 24mm spindle
Ridea Track 24mm spindle
Miche Pistard 2.0 & Air 24mm spindle
Vision NS track 30mm spindle

Should have more non-drive side stiffness than your usual suare axle/octalink crank.

My cons on the newer cranks

Sram Omnium: apart from the fact that you need to use longer chainring bolts but still able to use knurled chainring nuts, I also don't like the stepped 24/22mm spindle that Sram and Sugino uses that limits your choice of outboards bottom bracket.

Sugino SG75DD: the stepped 24/22mm spindle that limits your bottom bracket selections and also it's price in Canada (around 750$)

Rotor 3D track: the q-factor is a bit wider than most other track crank and you can only use Rotor track bottom bracket. No other bottom bracket is supposed to fit as the outboard cups are thinner than others BB.

Ridea Track crank: nearest online dealer is Brick Lane Bike in the UK and there is no North America distributor but atleast every specs of the crank is standard.

Miche Pistard 2.0/Air: hidden fifth bolt

Vision NS Track: 30mm spindle means smaller bearing in the outboard cups.Edit: Rustymongrel corrected me and BSA bottom bracket cups for 386 cranks like the vision have bigger bearing that use the same size of bearing balls as 24mm bottom bracket. And bearing 6806 that are used in 386 BB cups are rather common in bike shop since they are also used in other bike parts (hubs, suspension pivot) Otherwise it's my favourite crank of all the newer 24mm+ spindle crankset. Only the graphic design irritates my ocd a little as only Vision chainring would fit the graphic of the crank spider.

Last edited by Godsight; 10-18-17 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 10-17-17, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
I've always wondered this. I've never seen a head-to-head test of Omniums vs 7710s, but I've long heard the outboard nature will automatically make them stiffer...Has anyone done a test other than a subjective "feel" test?
I've owned a lot of the older cranks and the SRAM are subjectively stiffer.

Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
Edit: If the outboard nature of them automatically makes them stiffer, should we expect to see the same from the Sugino 75DDs?
Yes.

There is a point where "stiff enough is stiff enough". I don't think anyone was asking for stiffer cranks in the game.

I think the next-gen cranks would:
- Be aero
- Have those swappable inserts to change the effective cranks length.

Maybes:
- Maybe change the bolt system to something that's faster? Take a fresh look at it from scratch.
- Increase the BCD as no one rides 44t chainrings anymore but many are riding larger and larger chainrings.

"But what about the 144BCD, 5 chainring bolt standard?!"

No one seems to mind that these guys went off-standard with stems. These are some of the most sought-after bikes in the game:




And people who have cassette style rear hubs seem to like them.
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Old 10-17-17, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
151 BCD used to be a thing, maybe it will get revived? Also I thought the biggest downside to the cassette style rear hubs was the 13T limit on most of them...though I suppose if we're going to a bigger BCD we can get bigger front rings to make 12s not really needed anymore.
Yeah, Miche (and maybe White Industries) could only go down to 14t. But, that being said, everyone I know who had those hubs loved them. None of them were heavy torque folks, though. That's also an area to be explored. Screw on cogs are like 100 years old.



I don't know. Bike people are weird and buy with their feelings a lot (myself included).
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Old 10-17-17, 09:31 PM
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Friend of mine broke his Power2Max/Rotor3D crankset during the 750m TT at Master's Worlds last week. Drive side crank arm basically disintegrated where it connects to the spider. Not sure if Power2Max or Rotor should get the blame for that, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't recommend either brand at this point.

I have the Sugino 75DD crankset, happy with it so far. It was a little pricey, but included the bottom bracket and a nice chain ring, making it a better deal than it might appear at first glance (in the US, at least).
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Old 10-17-17, 10:40 PM
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Yikes!!
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Old 10-17-17, 11:47 PM
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I could quite easily see a larger bcd being reintroduced with the size of the chainrings being used currently and if trends continue in future. 144 will still be suited to the general track rider, but with elites approaching 60t rings and putting out huge amounts of power,it shouldn't be too long until it's looked at.

Personally I can't fault my 7710s and whichever BB is between them, I'll probably never really stress them enough to worry about absolute stiffness anyway.
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Old 10-18-17, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Godsight View Post
Vision NS Track: 30mm spindle means smaller bearing in the outboard cups. Otherwise it's my favourite crank of all the newer 24mm+ spindle crankset.
Not true, outboard bottom brackets for 30mm cranksets use 6806 (30x42x7) bearings just like BB30/PF30. 24mm outboard BBs use 6805 25x37x7 or a close variation (25x37x6 or 24x37x7). All of those bearings use the exact same size balls inside the cartridges.
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Old 10-18-17, 04:07 PM
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Thought I should add that the Miche Pistard Air negatives drawn about the hidden 5th bolt are overblown a bit. Actually because I haven’t got around to getting out the locktite yet for the other 4 I would actually say the hidden bolt is the easiest of them all to change. Also, because it is in a reverse direction it makes it easier to place the chainring on the spider prior to tightening up the bolts as the opposite directions hold it on.

Last edited by ruudlaff; 10-19-17 at 02:51 AM.
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Old 10-18-17, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rustymongrel View Post
Not true, outboard bottom brackets for 30mm cranksets use 6806 (30x42x7) bearings just like BB30/PF30. 24mm outboard BBs use 6805 25x37x7 or a close variation (25x37x6 or 24x37x7). All of those bearings use the exact same size balls inside the cartridges.
Thanks for the correction I will edit my post.
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Old 06-15-20, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Godsight View Post
Square axle and octalink cranks have a bb spindle that is less than 24mm in diameter. The spindle diameter helps with non-drive side stiffness. This Road bike cranks test might be useful for some to understand crank stiffness and which factor can affect stiffness.

So cranks like the:
Sram Omnium 24/22mm spindle
Sugino SG75DD 24/22mm spindle
Rotor 3D Track 24mm spindle
Ridea Track 24mm spindle
Miche Pistard 2.0 & Air 24mm spindle
Vision NS track 30mm spindle

Should have more non-drive side stiffness than your usual suare axle/octalink crank.

My cons on the newer cranks

Sram Omnium: apart from the fact that you need to use longer chainring bolts but still able to use knurled chainring nuts, I also don't like the stepped 24/22mm spindle that Sram and Sugino uses that limits your choice of outboards bottom bracket.

Sugino SG75DD: the stepped 24/22mm spindle that limits your bottom bracket selections and also it's price in Canada (around 750$)

Rotor 3D track: the q-factor is a bit wider than most other track crank and you can only use Rotor track bottom bracket. No other bottom bracket is supposed to fit as the outboard cups are thinner than others BB.

Ridea Track crank: nearest online dealer is Brick Lane Bike in the UK and there is no North America distributor but atleast every specs of the crank is standard.

Miche Pistard 2.0/Air: hidden fifth bolt

Vision NS Track: 30mm spindle means smaller bearing in the outboard cups.Edit: Rustymongrel corrected me and BSA bottom bracket cups for 386 cranks like the vision have bigger bearing that use the same size of bearing balls as 24mm bottom bracket. And bearing 6806 that are used in 386 BB cups are rather common in bike shop since they are also used in other bike parts (hubs, suspension pivot) Otherwise it's my favourite crank of all the newer 24mm+ spindle crankset. Only the graphic design irritates my ocd a little as only Vision chainring would fit the graphic of the crank spider.
Sorry for digging and resurrecting, but with 24mm spindle cranksets are the bottom brackets interchangable? Looking for options for replacing/upgrading the miche evo max I used last time with my Pistard Air
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Old 06-15-20, 07:25 AM
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It depends. I'm basing this off road cranks, but for awhile, Sram, Shimano, FSA and Rotor all had 24 mm cranks, but all required different BBs. For example, Sram tapered to 22 at the NDS. I think FSA and Shimano were compatible, but I do not recall.
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Old 06-18-20, 05:54 AM
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https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/...omment15356840

Hollowtech ok with them supposedly. Soon find out
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Old 07-17-20, 04:49 PM
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I currently have a set of Omniums that I will be transferring to my girlfriends bike. I'm on the fence between the Dura Ace 7710 and Sugino DD2. What's everyone's opinion on these cranks and how do they compare to each other?
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Old 07-18-20, 07:12 AM
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both nice cranks. Pick based on looks and which BB system you prefer.
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Old 07-19-20, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
It depends. I'm basing this off road cranks, but for awhile, Sram, Shimano, FSA and Rotor all had 24 mm cranks, but all required different BBs. For example, Sram tapered to 22 at the NDS. I think FSA and Shimano were compatible, but I do not recall.
FSA megaexo cranks were 24.07mm, with a bit of variance in the actual size. You could use a Shimano BB but it was not guaranteed to fit and would wear the bearings early.
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Old 07-19-20, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by txela View Post
I currently have a set of Omniums that I will be transferring to my girlfriends bike. I'm on the fence between the Dura Ace 7710 and Sugino DD2. What's everyone's opinion on these cranks and how do they compare to each other?
I know that the hunt for "the best", "the stiffest", "the smoothest" can be alluring. But, just know that most (all?) but the top athletes in the world will push a set of quality cranks to the limits and experience any differences in feel or performance.

Cheap cranks will always be cheap cranks. They won't fit well, will have gaps, will have crunchy bearings, and may loosen over time. But, at the higher end (like the ones you mention) they all perform very well.

I've had crap, no-name brand cranks (the kind that come on entry level bikes) have arms that migrate off while you ride. But, not on any of the nicer cranks.
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Old 07-19-20, 04:21 PM
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NJS cranks still work. Just sayin.
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