jerseybmx

i quoted and gave credit where credit was due. i did not claim as mine own. so if u have nothign good to say... the u can suck me up

dutret

huh?

I am having trouble reading that into what I wrote. Are you conceeding that your wrong and you are just picking a fight because you dislike me or perhaps the state in which I currently reside? What did the post say before editing?

bdfresh

How do you know what hubs are okay to radial lace? I am pondering the idea of building a radial laced front wheel using something like Dimension or Formula hubs, DT Swiss Spokes and Sun CR18 rim. Sound alright?

jerseybmx

high flange hubs are generally okay... and if they are a high quality unsealed thats even better.

smaller or low flage hubs with sealed bearings can be dangerous... the radial lacign pulls the flange out and the bearing can rock in it's race... caused stress cracking and possibly browing out the flange,

bdfresh

thanks for that. I am thinking about doing it but then again, asthetics is a dumb reason to do something especially when im the type that likes something to work right, be durable over lookning good if it isn't going to hold up as well.

sweatpants

on my flatland bmx bike I've run both radial and cross lacing patterns. We put much more stress on the wheels doing that; standing on the axlepeg and generally rolling around on one wheel at a good lean. Under that type of stress, radial is very high maintence compared to a cross-laced wheel. It feels "spongier" and goes out of true often. The stiffness when the wheel is straight up and down is higher, but much reduced when the wheel is under pressure at an angle. Sorry I don't have the mechanical lingo to use the proper terms for those two types of strength. But yes, I agree, the look is winning.
cheers

G60

guh-ross.

halbritt

All of the braking forces on a radially laced front wheel using a rim brake will be transmitted through the brake bosses and into the frame. There is some angular force as well being transmitted from the contact patch to the brake pads. This becomes radial force through the spokes. Weight transfer to the front wheel will occur as a result of braking which transfers force through the axles which also becomes radial force through the spokes. There's really no way for a rim-braked front wheel to transfer torsional load through the spokes as the hub will simply spin freely on its bearings as a result of any torsional load present. There might be some insignificant torsional load as a result of the friction in the bearings. If this is a concern, some lube might be in order.

Given the definition of "strength" as the wheel's ability to stay in true and hold a load it seems like a radially laced front wheel would be beneficial to larger riders. There is also an additional weight benefit beyond the ability to use shorter spokes. A radially laced wheel can be built with thinner gauge spokes than a cross-laced wheel and still have the same degree of lateral and radial stiffness. Alternately, a lower total spoke-count could be used to achieve the same degree of radial and lateral stiffness as a cross-laced wheel.

As for half-radial driven wheels, there's some benefit to using the radial pattern on the drive side for a dished wheel. Torsional forces are transferred through the hub quite well, so it really doesn't matter which side the cross-laced is on. There's a great deal of stress on the dished side of the wheel, using radial spokes increases lateral stiffness and lateral strength reducing the likelihood of spoke failure.

jerseybmx

i disagree with nothing

vik 

I reread Jobst's book "The Bicycle Wheel"....here are a couple pertinent quotes from his section on radial wheels:

"...Radial spokes carry loads just as well as crossed spokes, but they cannot transmit torque..."

He goes on to say...

"...Even though they transmit no torque front wheels should not be spoked radially because high radial stress can cause fatigue failure of their flanges..."

and finally...

"...Radial spoking has no aerodynamic advantage over other patterns because near the rim, where the spokes produce the greatest drag, they occupy the exactly the same positions, regardless of pattern...."

bakaster

It is honestly mostly for looks. It is a lot harder on the hub (not a problem if you are running brakeless, but even rim brakes can mess up a cheap hub if it is radially laced)

It is slightly lighter, slightly more aero, but overall the difference is negligible.

I think there are also some hubs that you will void their warranty if you radially lace them (phil wood hubs make a big deal of the fact that radially lacing the hubs won't void their warranty)

dutret

How exactly are rim brakes worse than leaning the bike from side to side?

Flinstone

I'm necroing this because I ran into and someone else might too and information should not live forever without correction.

This is completely false and even somewhat upside down. In short momentum conservation dictates that ALL force to decelerate the forward motion of a bike MUST come through the ground (except for a little through the air), transferring momentum to the ground, and thus it goes through the spokes to the frame. (a bike hurling through a vacuum can never stop itself.. you have to push from the ground)

As the brakes make the wheel try to roll slower it is resisted by the ground since the weight of the frame and rider still want to continue over the ground at the same initial speed. Ignoring air resistance, the force at the ground is the full rearward acceleration (foward deceleration) force, m*a.

That force to stop the bike is then transmitted from the wheel to the hub through the trailing spokes which pull backwards and through the leading spokes which push backwards. This is true on radial spoked wheels essentially just as on cross wheels. The misconception may arise from a (wrong) notion that disk brakes transmit stopping force through spokes and rim brakes don't. What disc brakes do that rim brakes don't is disk brakes put TORQUE on the rim through the spokes, but only to slow down the wheel itself. Both put stopping force through the spokes because again, stopping force MUST come from the ground, not the brakes.

There is a force on the brake boss, a big one, but if the boss is on top (as usual for front wheels), the wheel is moving forward there and pulling the brakes, the boss, and the bike FORWARD! As it turns out the force on the brake boss IS equal in size to the force on the ground (for weightless wheels) in order to balance toque on the wheel (if the wheels have weight, SOME net torque is required to decelerate the rim, and then this force is even bigger). But if the brakes are top dead center, that force pulls the bike forward with m*a. That means to place net m*a on the frame, the force transmitted through the spokes is actually 2m*a, backwards!

So I would certainly not say that "all of the braking forces" go through bosses. You could say some of it does, depending on what you mean by braking forces.

Cute Boy Horse

Just popping in this million year old thread to say that the guy who tried to discredit radial wheels by quoting a section of a book that describes broken hubs is a real dingus. I mean, it'd already been brought up several times that there are now hubs strong enough to not have that problem anymore.

also don't necro threads

frankenmike 

I'd forgotten how hostile this place could be until I reread this! That dude operator sheesh

TejanoTrackie 

Operator was an angry Canuck. Life is brutal in the Great White North.

Flinstone

oh well since YOU said so, and since since it's written in stone handed down from God. Old conversations are future google hits. This internet morality does far more harm than good in this misguided form of it, but it seems to make people feel righteous spouting it often. Probably discussing thread necroing is in fact though not very germane. At least I'm one for two.

TejanoTrackie 

I like camomile tea.

****

Flinstone

To bring this into the modern age I will redirect discussion to here:

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...l#post18903389


and suggest that this thread could now be closed, or simply left alone.

JeremyLC

I'm a fan of Darjeeling myself.

veganbikes

I don't drink tea often but I had a Matcha a while back that was so delicious, can't find it or remember how it was made but damn was it good.

Flinstone

It's been pointed out that the quote I replied did go on to describe radial forces from the bike decelerating. So let's just say I would have said the first line differently and I'm just highlighting the danger in misreading this line.

veganbikes

What does this have to do with tea?

hairnet

CinemaKiss