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Birthday Ride cut Short

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Birthday Ride cut Short

Old 07-07-14, 07:07 AM
  #1  
msujmccorm
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Birthday Ride cut Short

Friday was my birthday so Sunday was the day for the 53 mile birthday ride. I met 2 of my cycling buddies at 7:00 am and set out on the Tammany Trace near Slidell LA. About 14 miles out we hear a "crack". I thought my saddle had somehow slipped but I looked down and saw this.
Bike is a 4 month old Domane 2.0 and never been dropped or crashed.
I guess I'll be at the Trek dealer today.
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Old 07-07-14, 08:10 AM
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Wow, that stinks. Hopefully Trek will stand behind it and get you a new frame pronto.
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Old 07-07-14, 08:53 AM
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I've worked with composites a fair amount doing work for the military, Boeing, NASA and others. I'm not an engineer but I'm fairly knowledgeable about different areas of manufacturing. A main principal is to distribute loads. The carbon seat posts I see being sold do not seem to have any means to distribute loads. Actually, aluminum should be treated much the same but is probably not as critical, as least in the short term. Something as simple as cutting a seat post on a steep slant would relieve point loading quite a bit. A slit in the post running laterally would spread loads also and I don't see why these things are not done.
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Old 07-07-14, 11:31 AM
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Bummer...
Was the post in deeper then the minimum insertion point?
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Old 07-07-14, 11:43 AM
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HOLY COW!!!! Cow-----C-O-W, e-I-e-I-oh

BIG TIME Bummer

berner-logical BTW-I have an ISP frame
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Old 07-07-14, 12:12 PM
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Wow.
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Old 07-07-14, 12:21 PM
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Glad you didn't get hut.

BTW.. Happy Birthday.
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Old 07-07-14, 12:44 PM
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As you know our "personal frames" get more brittle after 50.
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Old 07-07-14, 05:17 PM
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LBS said no problem, a new frame is on the way. They said they have never seen a frame break there. They hope to have me rolling again in about a week. The seat post was well within the max and I think the seatpost is all that kept it from breaking completely off. We came to a small bridge on the MUP and there was a small elevation change and it cracked. When I bought the bike I went with the alum. because I was nervous about carbon cracking. Oh well, all should be fine, I'll ride the mountain bike for a week.
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Old 07-07-14, 05:29 PM
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Wow. What an odd location for a frame failure!

Edit to add: Maybe not!



IsoSpeed decoupler

Trek engineers designed a decoupler that allows the seat tube to rotate independently from the top-tube-to-seatstay junction, increasing vertical compliance to twice that of our nearest competitor, without compromising pedaling efficiency. Result: you can ride harder, longer.
I have to say ... although I think the bike manufacturers have my demographic (50+ endurance rider) in their cross hairs, I wonder if they go too far with this stuff. On the DMD earlier this year, I heard a lot of creaking Volagis (which also separate the top and seat tube).

I rode an Al frame Schwinn for years, including 300 mile rides and the like and had no complaints about the ride on typical roads. It was only when I decided to do the 508 solo that I decided to spring for a bike with a carbon fiber frame, and I only did that because some of the roads on the 508 are truly abysmal (Kelbaker road is awful).

I rather like a bike to have a lively ride ... the last thing I want is complete isolation from road. My carbon bike (a 2008 Scott CR-1) is reputed to have a stiffer ride than most, and I think the ride is about perfect.

Is "smoother" really always better? I'd rather ride in a Porsche than an 80s vintage Caddy.
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Old 07-08-14, 02:34 PM
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I give myself little leeway on completing things like a birthday ride. However, I think breaking your bike qualifies for a justified deferral. (Will you have to do 53.04 miles next week?)
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Old 07-08-14, 03:35 PM
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Wow. This break must have been some sort of fluke manufacturing defect. What a bummer.
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Old 07-08-14, 03:55 PM
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This is why I ride old, steel bikes. If they've lasted that long, you know there are no latent defects.
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Old 07-08-14, 07:48 PM
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Nobody asked, so I will. What do you weigh? Or more specifically, do you weight more than 200#s.?

Not that it changes anything since bike guaranties don't have weight limits, but a heavy rider on a fairly long post puts a decent amount of torque into the frame, rotating around the support at the seat lug. Setback posts increase this, so a tall heavy rider on a set-back post is a triple whammy.

When you buy a high end SPORTS bike, you're not buying a truck. Weight is at a premium, so designers have to consider the weight of their target riders, and design for them. Building stronger would not only weigh more, but alter the ride so with lighter riders the bike would ride like an empty truck.

Not saying this wasn't a simple defect, but if the OP weighs much more than 175#s or so, it wouldn't be totally unexpected.
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Old 07-08-14, 08:17 PM
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5' 11" 215lbs. I checked the odometer and the bike had 486 miles. LBS called this afternoon and said Trek didn't have any more frames in orange and white like mine. They offered black/green or a 2013 red/white. I asked what they were going to do about trim,etc, since my seat post clamp, stem cap, and headset trim ring are orange. Am I being unreasonable to not want to put orange trim on a black/green bike? I don't want the 2013 because the resale value might not be as much. I don't think I should come out of this any worse than I was before the ride.
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Old 07-08-14, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by msujmccorm View Post
5' 11" 215lbs..... .
This is why I asked. No offense to you, because it's not your fault. But selling sport bikes designed for riders weighing 164#s or less to you is like selling a sports car for hauling plywood. NOBODY in the industry wants to address the idea of weight limits, or even design loads, and less than nobody wants to design and build sports bikes around the needs of larger riders.

IMO- larger riders should consider larger frames, closer to the high end limit, so there's less exposed post, and reduced torque stress on the seat tube at the bottom of the post. Your kind of failure is fairly rare, but predictable under the circumstances.

As for the color, cosmetic and resale value issues, I'm out of it, and you'll have to work it out with Trek and the dealer. Given the newness of the bike, they should go as far as they can to satisfy you. It's not like somebody asking to replace a 10 year old frame under warranty.
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Old 07-08-14, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by msujmccorm View Post
5' 11" 215lbs. I checked the odometer and the bike had 486 miles. LBS called this afternoon and said Trek didn't have any more frames in orange and white like mine. They offered black/green or a 2013 red/white. I asked what they were going to do about trim,etc, since my seat post clamp, stem cap, and headset trim ring are orange. Am I being unreasonable to not want to put orange trim on a black/green bike? I don't want the 2013 because the resale value might not be as much. I don't think I should come out of this any worse than I was before the ride.
You are being very reasonable IMO. That was a dangerous flaw that could have sent you to the hospital. Trek should offer you a new bike- any model you want.
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Old 07-09-14, 06:04 AM
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Maybe you left it out in the sun and it asploded.
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Old 07-09-14, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by msujmccorm View Post
5' 11" 215lbs. I checked the odometer and the bike had 486 miles. LBS called this afternoon and said Trek didn't have any more frames in orange and white like mine. They offered black/green or a 2013 red/white. I asked what they were going to do about trim,etc, since my seat post clamp, stem cap, and headset trim ring are orange. Am I being unreasonable to not want to put orange trim on a black/green bike? I don't want the 2013 because the resale value might not be as much. I don't think I should come out of this any worse than I was before the ride.
Don't think you are unreasonable.
If you have to make a color compromise ask for the black/white carbon frame.
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Old 07-09-14, 11:32 AM
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They should make it right no matter it what is takes. If they don't have what you want, they should offer up the next model to make it right.
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Old 07-09-14, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mvcrash View Post
They should make it right no matter it what is takes. If they don't have what you want, they should offer up the next model to make it right.
this +1
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Old 07-09-14, 12:00 PM
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Sorry your birthday ride was cut short but thankfully you weren't hurt!

Considering the failure, you've now got me wondering about my new bike (see photos) that also has a sloping top tube and a long-ish seat post. I did buy an alloy (not carbon) post, but still, I worry about the loads on the carbon seat tube. I weigh in at 157 so not quite as heavy as you, so that's in my favor, I suppose. Hopefully this isn't a major design flaw with this type of frame design though.

I've been riding the bike for about a year now (almost 4,000 miles on it so far) and it's still good . . . but I will pay more attention to the seat tube area now!

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Old 07-09-14, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick@OCRR View Post
Sorry your birthday ride was cut short but thankfully you weren't hurt!

Considering the failure, you've now got me wondering about my new bike (see photos) that also has a sloping top tube and a long-ish seat post. I did buy an alloy (not carbon) post, but still, I worry about the loads on the carbon seat tube. I weigh in at 157 so not quite as heavy as you, so that's in my favor, I suppose. Hopefully this isn't a major design flaw with this type of frame design though.

I've been riding the bike for about a year now (almost 4,000 miles on it so far) and it's still good . . . but I will pay more attention to the seat tube area now!

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The interesting thing about her bike is that it appears to have an Al frame, making the failure even more unusual.

But I don't think the sloping top tube was any part of the problem ... I think it's because of the elastomers they apparently used to isolate the seat tube motion from the top tube and seat stays. Interesting design, though.

Wait a minute ... 157? Wow!
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Old 07-09-14, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
But I don't think the sloping top tube was any part of the problem ...
I hope you're right Vic, since my thought was that the combination of the sloping top tube, the longer seatpost (more leverage) that design requires and the relatively thin wall of the seat tube might be a fatal combination.

Hopefully not!

Yes, 157 since I've put on a couple of pounds. I was 155 for DMD and every little bit of weight off helps!

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Old 07-09-14, 01:50 PM
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Maybe your Trek dealer will up tick a deal to a Carbon Madone frame., from the alpha Aluminum ..


I think they are trying cutting edge stuff to make a really Light aluminum frame ..

Co worker at the shop had one .. dropped screwdriver hit the top tube, they dent easily too..


at 5' 11" 215lbs. they may see a lot of you , frame will remain guaranteed replacement ,

but it may be a series of the aluminum ones you go through.

we have a local favorite like that . Played the offensive line in college football ,
now a monster, doing triatalons & training on the bike(s)

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