What scares me about Canyon
#52
Senior Member
Even though I am not a SRAM-fan, I think ultimately this is for the greater good. The fact that there were no standards is crazy. (I am an Apple fanboi, but their connectors and dongles are a low-point. I have a box of various Apple dongles dating back to firewire and VGA. It is just a pile of e-waste now.)
#53
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#55
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Ahhh you needed a different one. Well darn. Hopefully they will make one soon enough. Derailleurhanger.com is another popular one if I cannot find it through Wheels or other source also Pilo makes stuff but I think they are most common in Europe.
#56
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This all sounds like a perfect justification for n+1.
#57
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Being unable to replace parts is a different story. Bars don't last forever, seat posts can break/get corroded, proprietary clamps/fittings can break, easily in some cases... I'm hard on my equipment and ride bikes till the wheels fall off - for that reason, bikes with proprietary parts - I'm out.
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#58
Senior Member
Not "any". I know a ton of "serious" cyclists that have not had a bike fit, including myself. Personally, I'm not real sensitive to differences between bikes- within reason of course, and after a few min of riding a different bike - I'm "used" to it. Just like how I'm not really sensitive to small differences in stiffness, compliance and all the other jargon.
Being unable to replace parts is a different story. Bars don't last forever, seat posts can break/get corroded, proprietary clamps/fittings can break, easily in some cases... I'm hard on my equipment and ride bikes till the wheels fall off - for that reason, bikes with proprietary parts - I'm out.
Being unable to replace parts is a different story. Bars don't last forever, seat posts can break/get corroded, proprietary clamps/fittings can break, easily in some cases... I'm hard on my equipment and ride bikes till the wheels fall off - for that reason, bikes with proprietary parts - I'm out.
If you can currently do a 200km ride and feel fine, then a bike fit may allow you to extend that to 250km without any additional discomfort. That's from a postural perspective of course. Your endurance is still your own responsibility.
And if you never do more than a century, a proper fit can still help you enjoy the ride more.
Last edited by Yan; 01-19-24 at 05:38 AM.
#59
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The thing is, Canyon, like all bike companies, is trying to sell NEW bikes. They - none of them - really care about the trials and tribulations of anyone buying their bikes second hand. So they don't have much incentive NOT to use proprietary parts on their top-end bikes, especially because so many cyclists Oooo and Ahhhh at things like integrated cockpits with totally hidden cables/hoses. Not great news for the secondary market, but also not their concern. I don't think there's a very large market for a high end new bike with only standard parts, but maybe someone will come along and prove me wrong and dominate the high-end bike sector.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.
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#60
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Sensitivity depends on the demand of the ride. I have no doubt you can jump on just about any bike and feel fine on a morning ride, but when you get into a 100km, a 160km, a 200km, a 300km, and beyond, etc; at a certain point, believe me, you're going to get "sensitive".
If you can currently do a 200km ride and feel fine, then a bike fit may allow you to extend that to 250km without any additional discomfort. That's from a postural perspective of course. Your endurance is still your own responsibility.
And if you never do more than a century, a proper fit can still help you enjoy the ride more.
If you can currently do a 200km ride and feel fine, then a bike fit may allow you to extend that to 250km without any additional discomfort. That's from a postural perspective of course. Your endurance is still your own responsibility.
And if you never do more than a century, a proper fit can still help you enjoy the ride more.
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#61
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Not helpful to the OP, but this is why my last (and most expensive) bike purchase was a custom steel frame with completely ordinary specs and components. I could probably go into almost any decent bike shop on the planet and purchase a replacement for almost any part on that bike. No weird press-fit BB, no unusual headset spec, no internal cable routing, etc.
#62
Senior Member
Maybe one would expect proprietary parts / systems on the top-end level bikes (around 10,500-euro tag price for Canyon) but I am afraid the things went much farther. Much lower tiers around 4000 EUR price got almost the same level of proprietary systems as the high end. And if you go to the lowest price level (around 2700 EUR), you still find some signs of proprietary parts. It leads to the situation where some common works that were usually done in house with low costs, require now sending the bike to the producer for repairs at 2-3 times higher costs. This is a very aggressive and unfair push followed by many brands, not only Canyon.
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#64
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have a 27 year old Litespeed with AMP rear suspension - 12 year old Cannondale with a Headshok - and a 5 year old Cannondale with a Lefty
I don’t understand the aversion to proprietary parts ???
on a related note - looking forward to riding the above bikes when I can find some replacement parts
I don’t understand the aversion to proprietary parts ???
on a related note - looking forward to riding the above bikes when I can find some replacement parts
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That said, perhaps "predatory" would be a better descriptor, with the seller (Canyon in this case) taking advantage of a poorly informed or uninformed purchaser. I mean, really, who goes into a bike shop and asks, "How much will it cost to replace a derailer hanger, or a stem, or bars, or a bottom bracket, three years after the sale?"
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#66
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Some people might quibble with "unfair" since they presume both sides of a commercial transaction have access to similar levels of information. I think that position is a bit far-fetched, since I've never seen a large company provide "open-kimono" pricing and profit information about their manufacturing and business practices until you get well into seven or eight digit transactions, and even then, that kind of disclosure usually involves a very large corporation doing the procurement.
That said, perhaps "predatory" would be a better descriptor, with the seller (Canyon in this case) taking advantage of a poorly informed or uninformed purchaser. I mean, really, who goes into a bike shop and asks, "How much will it cost to replace a derailer hanger, or a stem, or bars, or a bottom bracket, three years after the sale?"
That said, perhaps "predatory" would be a better descriptor, with the seller (Canyon in this case) taking advantage of a poorly informed or uninformed purchaser. I mean, really, who goes into a bike shop and asks, "How much will it cost to replace a derailer hanger, or a stem, or bars, or a bottom bracket, three years after the sale?"
WRT "open kimono", Canyon doesn't know - or likely much care - just how much bike you, the individual consumer could afford, so it's somewhat blind on both sides.
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#67
Senior Member
To give you an example: last year I needed to replace a fork on another brand bike (not Canyon) which was a little above average tier in 2015 when I bought it. I had a lot of discussions with the company for selling me the fork (which they still had in stock), but they insisted to send them the bike for repair, not in my country but in the country of origin of producer, at almost 2 times price of the fork including service. Finally, I hardly got a compromise to send them the damaged fork on my expense and they send me the new fork 1.5 months later at full price and transport cost. I doubt that I can get such "compromise" again, I would probably be obliged to send the full bike back and support their high service costs and transport on top of the price of the part. This is unfair business.
Last edited by Redbullet; 01-19-24 at 03:09 PM.
#68
Senior Member
That said, perhaps "predatory" would be a better descriptor, with the seller (Canyon in this case) taking advantage of a poorly informed or uninformed purchaser. I mean, really, who goes into a bike shop and asks, "How much will it cost to replace a derailer hanger, or a stem, or bars, or a bottom bracket, three years after the sale?"
When you buy a common car (not Bugatti or similar), you simply presume that you ca maintain and repair it close to you at a reasonable price, and it is always true. There are "after market" parts and services available at high quality and reasonable price and even the brand parts are still in your arm length, if you agree to pay a little premium.
But being obliged to send a bike to the producer for a simple repair and change of parts, then bear the exorbitant price of such action and service is not a fair commercial practice.
#69
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Well... they indirectly do. Because other brands also have similar approach. The options that remain to me is either not buying a bike at all, or buying another low brand and quality. This is not fair.
To give you an example: last year I needed to replace a fork on another brand bike (not Canyon) which was a little above average tier in 2015 when I bought it. I had a lot of discussions with the company for selling me the fork (which they still had in stock), but they insisted to send them the bike for repair, not in my country but in the country of origin of producer, at almost 2 times price of the fork including service. Finally, I hardly got a compromise to send them the damaged fork on my expense and they send me the new fork 1.5 months later at full price and transport cost. I doubt that I can get such "compromise" again, I would probably be obliged to send the full bike back and support their high service costs and transport on top of the price of the part. This is unfair business.
To give you an example: last year I needed to replace a fork on another brand bike (not Canyon) which was a little above average tier in 2015 when I bought it. I had a lot of discussions with the company for selling me the fork (which they still had in stock), but they insisted to send them the bike for repair, not in my country but in the country of origin of producer, at almost 2 times price of the fork including service. Finally, I hardly got a compromise to send them the damaged fork on my expense and they send me the new fork 1.5 months later at full price and transport cost. I doubt that I can get such "compromise" again, I would probably be obliged to send the full bike back and support their high service costs and transport on top of the price of the part. This is unfair business.
#70
Senior Member
Example: Look at the beautiful "CP0018 Aerocockpit", delivered not only on high end but also on middle Canyon tiers. The proprietary mounting and the shape of the steerer around the mounting area looks to me as impossible to replace without sending the bike to the producer (as long as the handlebar is not available to buy, nor the fork). The only relief comes if you think that there is a low likelihood to break the original handlebar or fork.
And I should say here again that it is probably an industry unfair evolution, not only Canyon's behavior.
#72
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So I could get this ENDURACE CFSLXDi2AERO
plus this ENDURACE CF8 LTD
for about the same cost as this
CALEDONIA Di2
This would provide some extra backup parts.
plus this ENDURACE CF8 LTD
for about the same cost as this
CALEDONIA Di2
This would provide some extra backup parts.
#73
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Yeah, I just enjoy riding my Canyon and the integrated carbon bar/stem happens to be super comfortable. I get the point about bike fit limitations, but I'm fine with the stock stem length on mine. Some riders are micro-adjusters, others are relatively insensitive and I'm the latter.
I also live in the UK where Canyon parts are relatively easy to find.
I also live in the UK where Canyon parts are relatively easy to find.
#74
Senior Member
I don't have these problems with my Yoeleo frames. They come with a spare RD hanger and seat rail clamp. The integrated stem shape is unique to Yoeleo, but the steering tube is normal round 28.6mm. I bought the latest integrated bar/stem last year for $300 delivered. The seat post is unique too, but I've never damaged a seatpost or bars, stem or RD hanger.
It's worth looking at wheels manufacturing hangers. They offer many.
https://wheelsmfg.com/derailleur-han...ngers.html?p=2
It's worth looking at wheels manufacturing hangers. They offer many.
https://wheelsmfg.com/derailleur-han...ngers.html?p=2
#75
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To give you an example: last yearI needed to replace a fork on another brand bike (not Canyon) which was a little above average tier in 2015 when I bought it. I had a lot of discussions with the company for selling me the fork (which they still had in stock), but they insisted to send them the bike for repair, not in my country but in the country of origin of producer, at almost 2 times price of the fork including service. Finally, I hardly got a compromise to send them the damaged fork on my expense and they send me the new fork 1.5 months later at full price and transport cost. I doubt that I can get such "compromise" again, I would probably be obliged to send the full bike back and support their high service costs and transport on top of the price of the part. This is unfair business.
Then, the installation having been screwed up and the fork damaged as a result, the customer insists on being sent a "nondefective" fork for free.
Anyone who has worked in a bike shop for any length of time has likely encountered this at least once, to say nothing of distributors that sell to hundreds of shops. With a manufacturer that sells high-end bikes, all it takes is one such event for the company to adopt a blanket policy: "No direct sales of parts to consumers."
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