Should brifters be a show stopper when buying a touring bike on CL?
#26
Clark W. Griswold
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If I was buying a used bike for touring and it had brifters, I would still buy the bike assuming it was going to fit and work for me and what I needed it for (and not require a ton of repair or replace unless just buying for frame) and then replace the brifters with bar ends. I would then have a set of brifters I could sell or keep in the parts bin for another project.
I personally dislike brifters because of the brake lever being a part of the shifter in Shimano or in SRAM having the double tap which sounds great but confused the heck out of me when I rode it last (I wasn't sure where I was on the cassette sometimes) and Campy is cool for the repairability but I am not keen on the shift button and I don't want a Campy system unless it is 60s era on a Colnago (or really nice lugged Italian racing frame).
I might consider going for a Di2 type setup if the wallet ever gets fat enough with cash rather than receipts and I can get a good custom builder to build me a modern lugged stainless frame with custom made lugs and a ridiculous paint job.
I personally dislike brifters because of the brake lever being a part of the shifter in Shimano or in SRAM having the double tap which sounds great but confused the heck out of me when I rode it last (I wasn't sure where I was on the cassette sometimes) and Campy is cool for the repairability but I am not keen on the shift button and I don't want a Campy system unless it is 60s era on a Colnago (or really nice lugged Italian racing frame).
I might consider going for a Di2 type setup if the wallet ever gets fat enough with cash rather than receipts and I can get a good custom builder to build me a modern lugged stainless frame with custom made lugs and a ridiculous paint job.
#27
Miles to Go
I have had zero issues with front brifters and triples with lower gearing. Granted bikes often come with 110/74 bcd or similar that limit the middle rings a bit on the high side, but I have swapped cranks and found the shifting was still fine with a 46-36-24. I have not gone lower (or wanted to), but I bet you could and still have decent shifting. The little half click positions were adequate for trimming. Granted I kind of don't see the point of indexing in the front, but I have not found it to be a real problem either.
BTW, if you go with lower gearing across all three rings you may benefit from adjusting the FD lower. I think some folks complaint of poor shifting with small rings is because they didn't get that adjustment right.
BTW, if you go with lower gearing across all three rings you may benefit from adjusting the FD lower. I think some folks complaint of poor shifting with small rings is because they didn't get that adjustment right.
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From an old timers perspective when brifters first came out they tended to be a bit unreliable and had a shorter life than the modern units thus being not a tourists first choice.
Nothing wrong with modern brifters for touring AFAIK
Disclaimer: I have never used brifters, I had bar ends on my Surly LHT and I now ride a Rohloff equipped tandem and a Thorn Mercury Rohloff single bike.
Mike
Nothing wrong with modern brifters for touring AFAIK
Disclaimer: I have never used brifters, I had bar ends on my Surly LHT and I now ride a Rohloff equipped tandem and a Thorn Mercury Rohloff single bike.
Mike
#29
Bikes are okay, I guess.
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Thank you for bringing this up. I don't know when show stopper started being used to connote a problem but it has taken over the software industry (well, where I worked anyway) and drives me crazy when used this way.
#30
Senior Member
show·stop·per
ˈSHōˌstäpər/
nouninformal
noun: show-stopper
1. a performance or item receiving prolonged applause from the audience.
"he wants every scene to be a showstopper"
2. an obstacle to further progress.
"the subsidy limits proved to be a showstopper for other senior Democrats who refused to pass the bill with such restrictions"
Last edited by staehpj1; 10-11-15 at 07:11 PM.
#31
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I personally dislike brifters because of the brake lever being a part of the shifter in Shimano or in SRAM having the double tap which sounds great but confused the heck out of me when I rode it last (I wasn't sure where I was on the cassette sometimes) and Campy is cool for the repairability but I am not keen on the shift button ...
Agree on not being keen on thumb shifter, I like shifting from drops sometimes.
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I've used brifters on a Novara Randonée & bar-ends on a Surly Disc Trucker, both worked fine. On steep downhills I feel more comfortable with hands on brake hoods so brifters are more safe/convenient there, also brifter gear shifters can be reached from drops too--bar-ends only instantly accessible from one position. OTOH Shimano brifter cables stick out a lot in front of handlebar & can get in the way of bags/luggage. Bar-ends are very simple & are kinda fun too, like driving a stick-shift car vs automatic. IMO it's a tie.
#33
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Funny but its the opposite with me, right away I loved being able to brake and go down a couple of gears at the same time. Granted this is something I do more in a busy commuting situation with unexpected stops, but I took to it like a duck to water. Probably goes back to my motorcycle days of braking and banging it down a few gears to be in the power band properly for the exit.
Agree on not being keen on thumb shifter, I like shifting from drops sometimes.
Agree on not being keen on thumb shifter, I like shifting from drops sometimes.
For commuting I prefer no gears just my two pistons, Leg 1 and Leg A (because both are at the top), too much to think about with traffic and the stress of the work day or not being quite awake yet ; )
#34
Senior Member
Haven't owned a motorcycle now for decades, but still like fast shifting from hoods. Toured and biked in general for ages with down tube shifters, so just really prefer brifters-- although for touring I realise that bar ends work well, to me it depends on where you're going that would determine which system to use.
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I have bikes with Campy 9-Speed Ergos and i have bikes with Shimano bar-end shifters.
Ergo/Brifter advantages includ not having to move your hands to shift which for me = more frequent shifting = less pedalling in a slightly too high gear and thus less fatigue over longer distances.
The advantages of the bar-end shifters is mechanical simplicity and the Friction Mode allows you to use ANY wheel, cassette or even freewheel. that's a big advantage if yoy toast a wheel.
In tthe end i'd say try both especially on a loaded bike and then use the ones you are most comfortable with.
Cheers
Ergo/Brifter advantages includ not having to move your hands to shift which for me = more frequent shifting = less pedalling in a slightly too high gear and thus less fatigue over longer distances.
The advantages of the bar-end shifters is mechanical simplicity and the Friction Mode allows you to use ANY wheel, cassette or even freewheel. that's a big advantage if yoy toast a wheel.
In tthe end i'd say try both especially on a loaded bike and then use the ones you are most comfortable with.
Cheers
#36
Macro Geek
I've had the same brifters on a touring bike for 11 years. So far, no major problems.
#37
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I respect the opinions in posts no. 12 and 13 but the problem (or potential problem) with brifters is not lack of reliability. Shimano triple brifters are designed to work with a shimano road triple which has a 130/74 bcd. That's not the best choice for touring. They typically come stock with 50-39-30 chainrings and the 30 is pretty high. You can drop as low as 24 up front but you cannot drop below a 39 (or perhaps a 38) in the middle chainring. That means you end up with a 15 tooth jump between the middle and small chainring. It's been my experience that it can be a pain to make a front derailleur work with this big a drop. I like a 50-39 just fine for general road riding but I find the gearing too high for loaded touring.
By the way, you really want a 24 tooth chainring (or smaller) on a loaded touring bike. There is a thread on BF where this was discussed and while there was some disagreement as to how low to go (there always is), the consensus was to go as low as possible.
You could look for a different crank but there are problems when you do this. Shimano does not recommend this. Take a look at adventure cycling's review of the salsa vaya (which comes with brifters and a 130/74 bcd crank) where this problem is discussed: https://www.adventurecycling.org/defa...aya_OGrady.pdf
There are at least 2 better choices than the shimano road triple for touring: an old school square taper 110/74 bcd like one of Sugino's triple cranks or a new school shimano trekking crank (which you can buy with 44-32-22). Maybe you can get brifters to work right with either of these cranks (and I've seen threads on BF suggesting this is possible with the trekking crank) but this apparently is not recommended by Shimano (see the adventure cycling review).
The bottom line is that friction is superior, IMHO, to indexing when it comes to the front chainrings. You can trim the FD to your heart's content and this will work with all sorts of cranks and chainrings that might not work right with indexing. Why lock yourself into a shifting system which limits your choices in cranks? Don't get me wrong. There is a lot to love about brifters. Not so much, though, for touring.
There are good reasons why a lot of the really great touring bikes come stock with bar end shifters (e.g., novara randonnee, 2015-2016 fuji touring bike, Trek 520, surly LHT, soma saga if bought as a complete bike from Soma). You can go with the advice of a few posters on BF. Or you can go with the advice of a lot of product managers whose job it is to spec touring bikes. Take your pick.
By the way, you really want a 24 tooth chainring (or smaller) on a loaded touring bike. There is a thread on BF where this was discussed and while there was some disagreement as to how low to go (there always is), the consensus was to go as low as possible.
You could look for a different crank but there are problems when you do this. Shimano does not recommend this. Take a look at adventure cycling's review of the salsa vaya (which comes with brifters and a 130/74 bcd crank) where this problem is discussed: https://www.adventurecycling.org/defa...aya_OGrady.pdf
There are at least 2 better choices than the shimano road triple for touring: an old school square taper 110/74 bcd like one of Sugino's triple cranks or a new school shimano trekking crank (which you can buy with 44-32-22). Maybe you can get brifters to work right with either of these cranks (and I've seen threads on BF suggesting this is possible with the trekking crank) but this apparently is not recommended by Shimano (see the adventure cycling review).
The bottom line is that friction is superior, IMHO, to indexing when it comes to the front chainrings. You can trim the FD to your heart's content and this will work with all sorts of cranks and chainrings that might not work right with indexing. Why lock yourself into a shifting system which limits your choices in cranks? Don't get me wrong. There is a lot to love about brifters. Not so much, though, for touring.
There are good reasons why a lot of the really great touring bikes come stock with bar end shifters (e.g., novara randonnee, 2015-2016 fuji touring bike, Trek 520, surly LHT, soma saga if bought as a complete bike from Soma). You can go with the advice of a few posters on BF. Or you can go with the advice of a lot of product managers whose job it is to spec touring bikes. Take your pick.
I've set up 6 touring bikes for our family with 110/64, 44/32/22 cranks, Tiagra Front Derailleur, and Tiagra STI shifters. They shift just as well as the set up on my road bikes, maybe even better.
My theory for the reason manufactures use bar ends shifters is because they are cheaper by about $200. If a company broke ranks from their bar end competitors and used STI shifters , their bikes might sell at a higher price point. The Cannondale line of touring bikes when they were being made in the U.S. all had STI brifters. However, they cost several hundred more than the other name brand touring bikes.
We have this same setup on 3 bikes. The rear derailleurs are all Shimano LX now. This one on a Bianchi Volpe was a Deore. Sugino DX 500 cranks-44/32/22, Tiagra FD, LX RD, Shimano Tiagra STI shifters, and an 11-34 rear cassette. The other 3 bikes are running 44/32/22 Shimano Deore cranks, with everything else the same. All 9 speeds. Unfortunately they don't make the DX 500 or 64/104 chainrings anymore , but I was able to pick up two 32 tooth chainrings the other day to replace the ones we have when they wear out. I didn't think I'd ever find any
Last edited by Doug64; 10-13-15 at 09:22 PM.
#38
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I realize this is a years old thread, but the same problem exists now. I'm thinking I might shift my setup to 9 speed STI rear with the Deore line and friction on the front derailler.
I have a question for those using friction on the front and a brifter on the rear - where do you find matching brake levers - brifters? Do you just get a set of STI brifters and ignore the left shifter or does someone sell something else to use?
I have a question for those using friction on the front and a brifter on the rear - where do you find matching brake levers - brifters? Do you just get a set of STI brifters and ignore the left shifter or does someone sell something else to use?
#39
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Why not just use both of your 9 speed brifters, attaching your front brake cable as normal to the left brifter and then using a bar end shifter on the left side with cable set up with your front derailleur. I think that would look the nicest in my opinion and would be fully functional
#40
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I realize this is a years old thread, but the same problem exists now. I'm thinking I might shift my setup to 9 speed STI rear with the Deore line and friction on the front derailler.
I have a question for those using friction on the front and a brifter on the rear - where do you find matching brake levers - brifters? Do you just get a set of STI brifters and ignore the left shifter or does someone sell something else to use?
I have a question for those using friction on the front and a brifter on the rear - where do you find matching brake levers - brifters? Do you just get a set of STI brifters and ignore the left shifter or does someone sell something else to use?
Above photo does not show both brifter and brake lever very well, found a five year old photo that does, below.
If you have a pair of brifters, you should be able to use the left side for brake only and then use a different shifter, like either a bar end or downtube friction.
I use bar end shifters on my derailleur touring bikes, not brifters.
Until I compared this recent photo with one five years old, I had no idea that my handlebar tape had faded from the sunlight that badly.
Generally, it is preferable to start a new thread on this sort of thing instead of resurrecting a half decade old thread.
#41
aka Timi
I have bar-ends on my touring bike, as the seperate brakes and gear systems are mechanically simpler thus easier to repair/replace in case of failure.
Sure, brifters can work flawlessly as many above attest to, but if, say, your bike falls over in the middle of nowhereistan and a brifter is wrecked, it may be a much bigger problem than with bar-ends.
I run brifters on my commuter and prefer them, as many others do, but not for touring.
That said, if you’ll be touring somewhere it’s easy to get spares and repairs (USA, Europe etc) then it wouldn’t be a ”show stopper”.
cheers
Sure, brifters can work flawlessly as many above attest to, but if, say, your bike falls over in the middle of nowhereistan and a brifter is wrecked, it may be a much bigger problem than with bar-ends.
I run brifters on my commuter and prefer them, as many others do, but not for touring.
That said, if you’ll be touring somewhere it’s easy to get spares and repairs (USA, Europe etc) then it wouldn’t be a ”show stopper”.
cheers
Last edited by imi; 01-25-21 at 07:19 AM.
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#42
Miles to Go
You can attach the brake and leave the shift cable off, or it might look kinda funky being a non-matches set but you could purchase a brake lever only for that side. But.... Why not just set up the front to shift via the brifter also?
I realize this is a years old thread, but the same problem exists now. I'm thinking I might shift my setup to 9 speed STI rear with the Deore line and friction on the front derailler.
I have a question for those using friction on the front and a brifter on the rear - where do you find matching brake levers - brifters? Do you just get a set of STI brifters and ignore the left shifter or does someone sell something else to use?
I have a question for those using friction on the front and a brifter on the rear - where do you find matching brake levers - brifters? Do you just get a set of STI brifters and ignore the left shifter or does someone sell something else to use?
#43
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I have bar end shifters on my touring bike, but only because that was what I had when I built the bike.
When SHimano first introduced their STI dual-control levers, like in the early '90s, there were reliability problems. In the ensuing 30 years, STI levers have just about perfect reliability. As someone else said, it is possible to break them in a crash (like anything) but I have seen a lot of them with cosmetic damage from crashing but still function just fine.
Also, since they are pretty common on bikes now, replacement levers are generally easy to get hold of if you should need it.
Bar end and DT shifters can likely by kludged back together in an emergency but for dual control levers, this would be much more difficult or impossible. For the ultra-eXXXtreme self supported adventure touring in developing countries, this could make a difference, but otherwise STI levers are the cat's pyjamas.
When SHimano first introduced their STI dual-control levers, like in the early '90s, there were reliability problems. In the ensuing 30 years, STI levers have just about perfect reliability. As someone else said, it is possible to break them in a crash (like anything) but I have seen a lot of them with cosmetic damage from crashing but still function just fine.
Also, since they are pretty common on bikes now, replacement levers are generally easy to get hold of if you should need it.
Bar end and DT shifters can likely by kludged back together in an emergency but for dual control levers, this would be much more difficult or impossible. For the ultra-eXXXtreme self supported adventure touring in developing countries, this could make a difference, but otherwise STI levers are the cat's pyjamas.
#44
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I realize this is a years old thread, but the same problem exists now. I'm thinking I might shift my setup to 9 speed STI rear with the Deore line and friction on the front derailler.
I have a question for those using friction on the front and a brifter on the rear - where do you find matching brake levers - brifters? Do you just get a set of STI brifters and ignore the left shifter or does someone sell something else to use?
I have a question for those using friction on the front and a brifter on the rear - where do you find matching brake levers - brifters? Do you just get a set of STI brifters and ignore the left shifter or does someone sell something else to use?
As for how to do what you want- I would still buy the shifter set and not use the left to shift because it would drive me nuts to have 2 different shaped brake hoods- both in look and feel. Nope, no interest in that.
You could look into Microshift Advent as that is a 1x9 drop bar group with matching brake levers. So the right shifts the rear and the left is just a brake lever. Same hood shape then.
#45
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If you have a pair of brifters, you should be able to use the left side for brake only and then use a different shifter, like either a bar end or downtube friction.
Generally, it is preferable to start a new thread on this sort of thing instead of resurrecting a half decade old thread.
#46
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A friend of mine used to have older Shimano brifters, he used V brake noodles to route the cables.
But you do need to check clearance regardless of brand.
#47
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Yep, your friend made a solution to a problem caused by the cable routing of the old style Shimano shifters. Good solution crisis averted.
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shifters.....
Choosing the right shifters is a very personal mater....depending how you ride where you ride and what you ride.........many people hate bar ends many people love them......many swear at brifters many swear by them.........you have to try this stuff out .......you cant take other peoples advice on this issue.........if you buy something and have to change the shifting set up its a small price to pay for your lesson because your finding out what WORKS FOR YOU.....its your tuition for an education....I use down tube friction shifter the most on my touring bikes ........many people think Im crazy........heavy people need a totally different gearing set up than skinny folks.......strong riders need something else and if you are a weak rider on a bike set up for a 200 pound muscle man you wont make it to the county line