imi

Inspired by the discussion on bar-ends/brifters, and it being the middle of winter and lockdowns 🥴 what are your thoughts on riding knees-in when on tour?

Do you? Don’t you? Don’t bother? Haven’t got a clue what I’m rambling on about? 😬

djb

Crazy Swedes!
I'm often knee out going into a corner, but other than that I haven't a clue what you mean ;-)

indyfabz

D.

imi

I found this BF thread that might shed some light:

https://www.bikeforums.net/professio...-top-tube.html

djb

ok, you're not as crazy as I thought. I was concerned that you'd been out in -20c under dressed and were hypoTHermic.

im clearly in the "close in " group, but really, just pedal in the way that feels right. With all the crap we have on our bikes touring, knee position won't make a hoot of difference. Flappy clothes are surely more important, but stop calling me Shirley.

pdlamb

I haven't noticed a change between ordinary riding, touring, and commuting, for that matter. I get on the bike and pedal.

imi

Crazy Swedes, huh?

Tourist in MSN

I use a handlebar bag and front panniers when touring. I also strap my rain gear on top of my front panniers were it is quickly available, the Ortieb Front Rollers have a convenient strap there. I find that those aerodynamic devices work very well to block the wind from my legs, thus my wind tunnel testing has shown that the knees-inward riding style only makes me 0.000000382 percent faster, which is not worth the effort. <Yes, this was intended to be humor, no I did not do wind tunnel testing with my panniers.>

I have also noticed that some people when their leg is on an upstroke will swing their knee outward a little bit, and those people usually appear to have a saddle that looks too low to me. That knee outward movement is only an inch or two at most, but noticeable if you are following someone that does it. Two people that I have toured with did that and both of them thought my saddle was unusually high.

imi

I think there’s more to it that just aerodynamics. Knees-in may well have bio-mechanical advantages.

When I first started using the technique it felt slightly unnatural, but after a short while I was convinced that just angling my knees in made me go faster without any added effort. Easy to test, just ride along with straight knees, then bend them in slightly.

Oh, this is of course another disadvantage to frame and top-tube bags which is why tourers with panniers - and knees-in - always leave bikepackers behind in their dust! 😉

ClydeClydeson

Everybody's body is different and through training you have to find what pedalling position and technique puts the least strain on your body.
When I was racing as a youth, the coach got us to train with our knees brushing the top tube, so that is how I ride now. If you did not spend your teen years worrying about the aerodynamic penalty of having your knees an extra 2cm wider, then forcing yourself to pedal in one way or another is more likely to result in injury than to lead to any improvement.

Your position on the bike, including saddle location and angle, and pedal cleat adjustment, should be as close to 'neutral' WRT your joints as possible. If something about your position makes some part of your body feel like it is being pulled away from a 'neutral' position, you must investigate and adjust/modify your bike to improve the situation.

djb

hey, I've never got anything against watching a sexy Swedish chick partially disrobing and dipping into lake whajamacallit, but boy the novelty of getting into the icey water must wear off after a few weeks.
mind you, she did look very happy however drinking her coffee, so I guess it's all fine.

when I think of crazy Swedes, I think of a rally driver, à la WRC.

and as for knee in knee out, I'm basically just as fricken slow no matter how I pedal, knees in, knees out, elbows in, elbows out, ears in, ears out.....

imi

mstateglfr 

My knees are mostly straight ahead of my hips. Maybe the knees are in a bit since my hips are wider than the distance between my feet on the pedals.
They for sure arent splayed outward like something goofy. I never understand that riding style, but to each their own I guess.

79pmooney

I adopted the mantra of brushing the top tube my last season of racing for my knees. Helped a lot. I no longer do unless they are bothering me but I do always set my cleats up to force toe-in, especially on my right shoe.

Cougrrcj

What in the Hokey Pokey is all this talk of knees in and knees out?



.

djb

I liked that one.
now it's stuck in my head.

saddlesores

Oj! crazy is right! my former norwegian girlfriend explained it all to me.

Børk! Børk! Børk!