Why are roadies going 1x11 or 1x12?
07-29-19, 05:48 PM
#276
Full Member
I agree that it is a fad. But thee are purposes for it.
1. You can design your gear steps so that they are consistent. On a double it is easy to have your gears so that half of them are too close to the ratios in the other ring and so they are just throw away ratios.
2. An 11 or 12 speed IS wider than a 10. that means that the "cross chaining" is still a problem. Furthermore since the cogs and rings have to be narrower they wear out faster. Also as a rule you climb in the small ring and ride flats or downhill in the big ring. This means that the ring wear is halved in a double.
Because you tend to use the small ring for climbing and you use the larger cogs - the offset of the chain is less and the wear on the chain is reduced.
3. The very large ratios on 1 x 11's etc. means that you can STILL throw a chain and a front derailleur can prevent that.
4. Having a 10, 11 and 12 on the high speed side forces the chain to turn VERY sharply and that loses a lot of power. While the common rider can't much tell because he only uses those sorts of gears downhill, a racer can tell this in an instant. Why do you think that some TT bikes are set up for 56 or 58 - 13's?
We will always see fads. And there are always horses for courses. Aero wheelsets are far too heavy if they are made out of aluminum. So they are made out of carbon fiber. Rim brakes wear out expensive carbon rims after only perhaps 10,000 miles if you're reasonably careful. So they started using disk brakes. Rather than wear out expensive rims they wear out expensive disks and replace pads a mile a minute.
But the most important thing here is that component manufacturers learned from Lance Armstrong that if they make a major change - 8 cogs to 9 - that the public would have to buy and entirely new group to keep up with the Jones (or the Armstrong's). So THAT is why we saw 10 speeds now 11, looking at 12 and this of course required new frames since you cannot "reset" a carbon frame for wider wheels and you have to have special frames and forks to fit disk brakes.
Ask ANY mechanical engineer on this planet and he will tell you that disk brakes put the loads on the frames and forks in ENTIRELY the worst possible place. Rim brakes are in the best possible locations. So in a relatively short time these framesets will fail and you have to buy a new one. And THAT IS IN THE WARRANTY of most brands. Colnago only gives you a 3 year warranty and the engineers there say that is too long.
In the Tour we just observed team frames simple fall apart. This was probably due to manufacturing errors but that highlights that you have a difficult time telling errors when they are inside the frame out of sight. In the two cases I observed the riders almost stepped off unhurt but it caused crashes of the riders behind them. But this is the cost of professional racing. Do you want it to be the cost of riding a bike for sport? So you want to be unable to buy repair parts for your components because you're two speeds behind the curve?
It might be time to reconsider the sport rather than trying to keep up with the Jones's or the Armstrong's.
1. You can design your gear steps so that they are consistent. On a double it is easy to have your gears so that half of them are too close to the ratios in the other ring and so they are just throw away ratios.
2. An 11 or 12 speed IS wider than a 10. that means that the "cross chaining" is still a problem. Furthermore since the cogs and rings have to be narrower they wear out faster. Also as a rule you climb in the small ring and ride flats or downhill in the big ring. This means that the ring wear is halved in a double.
Because you tend to use the small ring for climbing and you use the larger cogs - the offset of the chain is less and the wear on the chain is reduced.
3. The very large ratios on 1 x 11's etc. means that you can STILL throw a chain and a front derailleur can prevent that.
4. Having a 10, 11 and 12 on the high speed side forces the chain to turn VERY sharply and that loses a lot of power. While the common rider can't much tell because he only uses those sorts of gears downhill, a racer can tell this in an instant. Why do you think that some TT bikes are set up for 56 or 58 - 13's?
We will always see fads. And there are always horses for courses. Aero wheelsets are far too heavy if they are made out of aluminum. So they are made out of carbon fiber. Rim brakes wear out expensive carbon rims after only perhaps 10,000 miles if you're reasonably careful. So they started using disk brakes. Rather than wear out expensive rims they wear out expensive disks and replace pads a mile a minute.
But the most important thing here is that component manufacturers learned from Lance Armstrong that if they make a major change - 8 cogs to 9 - that the public would have to buy and entirely new group to keep up with the Jones (or the Armstrong's). So THAT is why we saw 10 speeds now 11, looking at 12 and this of course required new frames since you cannot "reset" a carbon frame for wider wheels and you have to have special frames and forks to fit disk brakes.
Ask ANY mechanical engineer on this planet and he will tell you that disk brakes put the loads on the frames and forks in ENTIRELY the worst possible place. Rim brakes are in the best possible locations. So in a relatively short time these framesets will fail and you have to buy a new one. And THAT IS IN THE WARRANTY of most brands. Colnago only gives you a 3 year warranty and the engineers there say that is too long.
In the Tour we just observed team frames simple fall apart. This was probably due to manufacturing errors but that highlights that you have a difficult time telling errors when they are inside the frame out of sight. In the two cases I observed the riders almost stepped off unhurt but it caused crashes of the riders behind them. But this is the cost of professional racing. Do you want it to be the cost of riding a bike for sport? So you want to be unable to buy repair parts for your components because you're two speeds behind the curve?
It might be time to reconsider the sport rather than trying to keep up with the Jones's or the Armstrong's.
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07-29-19, 06:09 PM
#277
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Out of all the bananas statements there I'll pickup on the "random carbon asploding" on the pro peloton to point out that Moscon's bike was run over by a car, not from the crash. But thanks for pointing out again Michael Wood's unfortunate crash.
Why the anti-Canadian hate? This thread is about 1x. Not about trashing a great rider like Woods riding for a great American team like EF.
Why the anti-Canadian hate? This thread is about 1x. Not about trashing a great rider like Woods riding for a great American team like EF.
07-29-19, 06:40 PM
#278
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I agree that it is a fad. But thee are purposes for it.
1. You can design your gear steps so that they are consistent. On a double it is easy to have your gears so that half of them are too close to the ratios in the other ring and so they are just throw away ratios.
2. An 11 or 12 speed IS wider than a 10. that means that the "cross chaining" is still a problem. Furthermore since the cogs and rings have to be narrower they wear out faster. Also as a rule you climb in the small ring and ride flats or downhill in the big ring. This means that the ring wear is halved in a double.
Because you tend to use the small ring for climbing and you use the larger cogs - the offset of the chain is less and the wear on the chain is reduced.
3. The very large ratios on 1 x 11's etc. means that you can STILL throw a chain and a front derailleur can prevent that.
4. Having a 10, 11 and 12 on the high speed side forces the chain to turn VERY sharply and that loses a lot of power. While the common rider can't much tell because he only uses those sorts of gears downhill, a racer can tell this in an instant. Why do you think that some TT bikes are set up for 56 or 58 - 13's?
We will always see fads. And there are always horses for courses. Aero wheelsets are far too heavy if they are made out of aluminum. So they are made out of carbon fiber. Rim brakes wear out expensive carbon rims after only perhaps 10,000 miles if you're reasonably careful. So they started using disk brakes. Rather than wear out expensive rims they wear out expensive disks and replace pads a mile a minute.
But the most important thing here is that component manufacturers learned from Lance Armstrong that if they make a major change - 8 cogs to 9 - that the public would have to buy and entirely new group to keep up with the Jones (or the Armstrong's). So THAT is why we saw 10 speeds now 11, looking at 12 and this of course required new frames since you cannot "reset" a carbon frame for wider wheels and you have to have special frames and forks to fit disk brakes.
Ask ANY mechanical engineer on this planet and he will tell you that disk brakes put the loads on the frames and forks in ENTIRELY the worst possible place. Rim brakes are in the best possible locations. So in a relatively short time these framesets will fail and you have to buy a new one. And THAT IS IN THE WARRANTY of most brands. Colnago only gives you a 3 year warranty and the engineers there say that is too long.
In the Tour we just observed team frames simple fall apart. This was probably due to manufacturing errors but that highlights that you have a difficult time telling errors when they are inside the frame out of sight. In the two cases I observed the riders almost stepped off unhurt but it caused crashes of the riders behind them. But this is the cost of professional racing. Do you want it to be the cost of riding a bike for sport? So you want to be unable to buy repair parts for your components because you're two speeds behind the curve?
It might be time to reconsider the sport rather than trying to keep up with the Jones's or the Armstrong's.
1. You can design your gear steps so that they are consistent. On a double it is easy to have your gears so that half of them are too close to the ratios in the other ring and so they are just throw away ratios.
2. An 11 or 12 speed IS wider than a 10. that means that the "cross chaining" is still a problem. Furthermore since the cogs and rings have to be narrower they wear out faster. Also as a rule you climb in the small ring and ride flats or downhill in the big ring. This means that the ring wear is halved in a double.
Because you tend to use the small ring for climbing and you use the larger cogs - the offset of the chain is less and the wear on the chain is reduced.
3. The very large ratios on 1 x 11's etc. means that you can STILL throw a chain and a front derailleur can prevent that.
4. Having a 10, 11 and 12 on the high speed side forces the chain to turn VERY sharply and that loses a lot of power. While the common rider can't much tell because he only uses those sorts of gears downhill, a racer can tell this in an instant. Why do you think that some TT bikes are set up for 56 or 58 - 13's?
We will always see fads. And there are always horses for courses. Aero wheelsets are far too heavy if they are made out of aluminum. So they are made out of carbon fiber. Rim brakes wear out expensive carbon rims after only perhaps 10,000 miles if you're reasonably careful. So they started using disk brakes. Rather than wear out expensive rims they wear out expensive disks and replace pads a mile a minute.
But the most important thing here is that component manufacturers learned from Lance Armstrong that if they make a major change - 8 cogs to 9 - that the public would have to buy and entirely new group to keep up with the Jones (or the Armstrong's). So THAT is why we saw 10 speeds now 11, looking at 12 and this of course required new frames since you cannot "reset" a carbon frame for wider wheels and you have to have special frames and forks to fit disk brakes.
Ask ANY mechanical engineer on this planet and he will tell you that disk brakes put the loads on the frames and forks in ENTIRELY the worst possible place. Rim brakes are in the best possible locations. So in a relatively short time these framesets will fail and you have to buy a new one. And THAT IS IN THE WARRANTY of most brands. Colnago only gives you a 3 year warranty and the engineers there say that is too long.
In the Tour we just observed team frames simple fall apart. This was probably due to manufacturing errors but that highlights that you have a difficult time telling errors when they are inside the frame out of sight. In the two cases I observed the riders almost stepped off unhurt but it caused crashes of the riders behind them. But this is the cost of professional racing. Do you want it to be the cost of riding a bike for sport? So you want to be unable to buy repair parts for your components because you're two speeds behind the curve?
It might be time to reconsider the sport rather than trying to keep up with the Jones's or the Armstrong's.
So much so that the older stuff never got ridden and I sold it.
Sure its cool to look at or go for a ride on now and again for something different and a bit of nostalgia but thats about it.
07-30-19, 06:21 AM
#280
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There's that, but I'm also wondering how you land on your lowest gearing (he only uses the big ring) after getting up to speed. Doesn't that imply that he's doing things bass awkwards and using his taller gearing to accelerate and lowest to cruise?
07-30-19, 07:17 AM
#281
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
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All you wannabe's jumping on the multi-ring bandwagon. 
1x is not some new fad, it's retro. 
1x is not some new fad, it's retro.
07-31-19, 05:49 AM
#282
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Update! Per OP's post in this thread https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...t-fitness.html he sold the Madone for a profit and is going to buy and build up a Lynskey. Didn't say if it would be 1X but I applaud the Lynskey choice
07-31-19, 06:29 AM
#284
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These threads seem to always break down into three categories of participants:
1. People who have never really ridden 1x who are bizarrely fixated on why they hate it so much, and seem to have to make threads about why it's a terrible idea.
2. Reluctant responders who have been riding 1x and can report that it works out great: cross-chaining isn't a problem; drivetrain noise and wear isn't a problem; the jumps between gears are not as big as everyone thinks they are (check out a gear calculator and compare to the compact doubles most people are riding today); and there are some real advantages in simplicity.
3. Everyone else who brings along the popcorn and throws in the occasional (and justifiable) jokes about SRAM FDs.
Bottom line: I don't think anyone riding 1x plans to take anyone's FD's away, so give it a rest.
1. People who have never really ridden 1x who are bizarrely fixated on why they hate it so much, and seem to have to make threads about why it's a terrible idea.
2. Reluctant responders who have been riding 1x and can report that it works out great: cross-chaining isn't a problem; drivetrain noise and wear isn't a problem; the jumps between gears are not as big as everyone thinks they are (check out a gear calculator and compare to the compact doubles most people are riding today); and there are some real advantages in simplicity.
3. Everyone else who brings along the popcorn and throws in the occasional (and justifiable) jokes about SRAM FDs.
Bottom line: I don't think anyone riding 1x plans to take anyone's FD's away, so give it a rest.
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07-31-19, 06:44 AM
#285
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I was wondering where to ask this question. This thread seems like the best place. Should I use aluminum or stainless for my maque choux, coated or bare surface?
07-31-19, 06:49 AM
#286
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Are those slices of SPAM? Love it! Iron skillet if you want it browned.
07-31-19, 06:57 AM
#287
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Carbon steel pan, obv.
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07-31-19, 08:23 AM
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Update! Per OP's post in this thread https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...t-fitness.html he sold the Madone for a profit and is going to buy and build up a Lynskey. Didn't say if it would be 1X but I applaud the Lynskey choice
07-31-19, 08:45 AM
#290
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07-31-19, 09:39 AM
#291
Pizzaiolo Americano
Originally Posted by MyTi
I had to sell the madone. It did not fit and the bike shop wouldn't take it back the liars. They said I got a good deal and could sell it for twice what I bought it for. Ironically they were right, I sold it for almost twice what I paid for it(not including tax). Made a little profit and I am going to buy a Lynskey 6-4 ti frame and will probably just build it up myself. I'm thinking Ultegra disc groupset.
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07-31-19, 10:33 AM
#294
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I'm amazed at how quickly @MyTi sells his bikes. It usually takes more than one day for a bike to sell in my area.
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07-31-19, 10:53 AM
#295
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I'm guessing that greater site traffic supports higher ad rates. You do know that BF is not some grass roots thing, don't you? It's very much a for-profit venture.
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07-31-19, 11:36 AM
#296
Non omnino gravis
It's still going because it hasn't broken any rules. Whether not there is a point to any of this doesn't matter. This thread lives because you all keep posting in it.
Griping about a thread from inside that very thread is like complaining that someone is in your shoes, and then pointing at your own feet, in your shoes.
Griping about a thread from inside that very thread is like complaining that someone is in your shoes, and then pointing at your own feet, in your shoes.
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07-31-19, 11:58 AM
#297
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It's still going because it hasn't broken any rules. Whether not there is a point to any of this doesn't matter. This thread lives because you all keep posting in it.
Griping about a thread from inside that very thread is like complaining that someone is in your shoes, and then pointing at your own feet, in your shoes.
Griping about a thread from inside that very thread is like complaining that someone is in your shoes, and then pointing at your own feet, in your shoes.
I’m out!
07-31-19, 12:13 PM
#298
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Where else will you find 12 pages of free entertainment? Considering OP's other threads and IDs, he's on a roll! I'm sticking around for the Lynskey thread
07-31-19, 12:23 PM
#299
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I am not griping about this thread not being locked. I have learned to suffer most trolls gladly. Especially the obvious ones.
07-31-19, 02:35 PM
#300
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It's still going because it hasn't broken any rules. Whether not there is a point to any of this doesn't matter. This thread lives because you all keep posting in it.
Griping about a thread from inside that very thread is like complaining that someone is in your shoes, and then pointing at your own feet, in your shoes.
Griping about a thread from inside that very thread is like complaining that someone is in your shoes, and then pointing at your own feet, in your shoes.